| Author | Message | ||
     Dynasport |
I haven't seen this on BWB, so I thought I'd share it. I read the report and found it troubling. I actually subscribe to Motorcyclist and generally enjoy the magazine. I also wear a Shoei helmet and like it alot. I can't say anything written in the article surprises me, but it does make me rethink my Motorcyclist subscription. Maybe I'll go back to MCN. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Screw Arai and Shoei. Just further guarantees I will NEVER own any of their products. Arai's are overpriced junk. I will never own another one. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
linky? | ||
| 86129squids |
Ummm- Whutchu talkin bout Willis? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Back Story: http://motonews.podbean.com/2009/11/16/harfiels-in side-line-who-wants-to-silence-dexter-ford/#more-8 46199 | ||
| Crusty |
Here's a more detailed explanation: http://jalopnik.com/5582380/how-the-truth-about-mo torcycle-helmets-got-a-journalist-fired | ||
| Rwven |
Good, that's one less cycle rag I have to subscribe to. I won't buy a magazine who puts an advertiser ahead of my head.... | ||
| Gunut75 |
Why can't there be a motorcycle magazine that reads like the Gun Tests rag? | ||
| Dynasport |
Here's the link I intended to include  http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2010/07/leaked-d ocs-show-motorcyclist.html | ||
| Jaimec |
I wouldn't call Arai or Shoei "junk." Just way overpriced. I haven't worn either brand in at least two decades. Two Schuberth helmets, and then when they were no longer available I switched to Nolan (which, it turns out, is not only lighter and more comfortable but a helluva lot cheaper too). | ||
| Bartimus |
wow, thanks for posting this, Dyna, i appreciate it. It certainly points out what motorcyclist magazine thinks it's readers need to see. Certainly NOT what we WANT to see. what a shame, i too, will be cancelling my subscription... | ||
| Jaimec |
I applied for their free subscription back in May but never heard back. Now I know why they were offering it in the first place, but if I get it, I will not be renewing when it expires. I'll stick with Cycle World and Rider. And I MAY even reconsider subscribing to Motorcycle Consumer News since they don't accept ANY advertising whatsoever. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Well I don't read that rag or know anything about the fired writer, but I am glad I just took a big gulp of Shark Helmets kool-aid and replaced my rsx with a rsr2 instead of an arai. IMO, Shark is a leader in helmet technology and design. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
I never really knew about Motorcycle Consumer News before just now I think I may have to subscribe to them as I really like there no advertising deal so that they do not have this problem. The only problem with that is sometimes I buy moto mags for the advertisments in the back like for instance Roadracing world has a page of advertising for trackdays and schools and some other sections. or sometimes you can find advertisments in some of the magizines that will be a place to get good prices on say tires or riding gear that I may not have known about. | ||
| Jaimec |
The funny thing is, Arai and Shoei helmets sold in Europe do NOT meet the Snell standard because if it did, it would FAIL the EU standard. It is possible for a Snell helmet to BARELY meet the DOT standard, but not the stricter ECE 22.05 standard required in Europe. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The really $hitty thing about it is that the NYT article didn't even mention Arai and Shoei specifically. In fact, it didn't mention ANY manufacturer. This is the paragraph that got him fired: "In one comprehensive study of real-world impact performance based on research done for Motorcyclist Magazine, presented by Mr. Thom to the Motorcycle Safety Foundation, a $79.95 helmet certified to Transportation Department standards performed the best of the 32 tested, withstanding the most violent hits while transmitting as much as 67 g’s less impact force to the headform than a $400 Snell-certified helmet." The article wasn't even in the magazine. This was a separate article on his own time. If Motorcyclist had any balls, they would have told Arai and Shoei to put their money where their mouth was and pull the advertising. Then they should have printed a two page centerfold copy of the NYT article and an explanation of why they would no longer be seeing Arai and Shoei advertisements in their magazine as well as a statement of solidarity defending their magazine contributor writer. At some point in time, you have to take a stand. | ||
| Smoke |
the last helmet test at motorcyclist is why i am not using the more expensive brand names. i let my subscription run out after Catterson was named editor as i didn't care for the direction the magazine turned at that time. won't be starting it back up any time soon. tim | ||
| Mikej |
I'm surprised folks are surprised by this. This sort of thing happens in every industry to some extent. Same sort of thing even happens with supposedly objective news reporting agencies and end consumer/viewer channels. Perhaps the NYT article could have presented the data more objectively instead of with a possible hint of emotion, such as: "Three helments were tested, MSRP of the helmets ranged from $80 to over $400, helmet C (the $80 helmet) passed the testing with the best results". Either that, or the fired editor/writer could have written the article under a pseudonym or different pen name. Chuck Chevy instead of Ford for example. Or how about Peter Guzzi, or Seymour Benz, or Harei Schoenfield. One has to think that after 30 years on the job that he would have seen this coming, and one just might have to wonder if had foreseen the writing on the wall when he wrote what he wrote. Has Mr. Ford submitted a response to his termination anywhere? It would be interesting to read what he has to say about all of this. Perhaps he just had enough and "wasn't going to take it anymore" to loosely quote a movie line. Product reviews are basically editorials, doesn't matter if you are talking helmets or cameras, reviews are opinions written with a target audience in mind and with the sponsors on the sidelines. Imagine if a Motorcyclist writer wrote a review of the 2011 GSXR and said that a Hyosong (sp?) would get you to and from work just as well and just as reliably for a fraction of the cost. Oh well, carry on. | ||
| Jaimec |
That wasn't a product review. It was a fact and statistic-based comparison of helmet standards. | ||
| Mikej |
Okay, but we've all heard jokes about statistics, and facts are subject to editorial interpretation, and comparisons have a lot of subjectivity contained in setting up the comparison. YMMV | ||
| Jaimec |
But hard numbers produced from scientifically-calibrated instruments are not. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Arai and Shoei's entire empire is based upon the promoted belief that you have to spend more (for their product) to get "real" protection. If you could get the same or better protection for a fraction of their price, they'd be out of business tomorrow. | ||
| Greg_e |
I just wish that the DOT would accept the ECE rated helmets so that some of the other EU models could be sold here. My Schuberth seems to be getting a little loose so I need to start thinking of getting a new lid. Shoei and Arai have not been in the running for years (for me). Maybe the bug-eyed Vemar, but wish I could buy an ECE rated newer Schuberth and use it legally. | ||
| Reg_kittrelle |
FB, Do you know this to be a fact?: "This is the paragraph that got him fired: "In one comprehensive study of real-world impact performance based on research done for Motorcyclist Magazine, presented by Mr. Thom to the Motorcycle Safety Foundation, a $79.95 helmet certified to Transportation Department standards performed the best of the 32 tested, withstanding the most violent hits while transmitting as much as 67 g’s less impact force to the headform than a $400 Snell-certified helmet." | ||
| Buellbob |
So, when is he going to file a wrongful dismissal suit? | ||
| Dynasport |
As to what Ford should or should not have known, if you read the actual emails between Ford and Catterson, Catterson was supportive of Ford in his writing until after it was published and the heat came. My respect for Catterson is greatly diminished as a result of this. | ||
| Mnrider |
I never liked Catterson.He was always a unfair critic of Buell in my opinion. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Do you know this to be a fact?: Sorry. I shouldn't have made such a declarative statement. I should have said that I surmise that this is the paragraph that got him fired. The only companies who's helmets are in the $400+ price range AND whose helmets tested poorer in both the ECE and new SHARP rating system than one's costing $79 dollars were Arai and Shoei. Ford evidently printed in writing the sacrilege that more money doesn't buy more safety. | ||
| Buellkowski |
Nor does a better impact performance in a laboratory dynamic test indicate a "superior" helmet. Padding, ventilation, mechanical features, noise-suppression, material quality, head shape fit, etc. all must be considered in a safety-per-dollar-cost comparison. We could design a helmet that could absorb 95% of impact force, but wearing it would make you look like a clown/space alien/idiot. I wear a Shoei primarily for the head shape, secondarily for their quality reputation. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Padding, ventilation, mechanical features, noise-suppression, material quality, and head shape fit didn't get ford fired, though. The PRIMARY reason people buy one helmet over another is the perceived safety factor. Arai and Shoei have been able to equate the high price of their helmets with higher safety when the laboratory evidence simply doesn't prove this out. My Arai helmet was the worst helmet I've owned so far. Build quality was poor. In all the areas you mentioned, I was able to get a better helmet for far less money. In fact, I could have bought four helmets for what I bought my Arai for. They simply aren't four times better. |
