| Author | Message | ||
     Toronto_s3 |
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527487046 38504575318850772872776.html?KEYWORDS=corruption I guess it's a small price to pay for "liberating" the people of Afghanistan from the Taliban. | ||
| Aesquire |
Glad your fine city's crap storm is over. Obama was impressed by your golf courses. We liberated the people of Afghanistan years ago. (edit amazingly fast, with ultramodern weapons and tribal cavalry. ) What's been going on for years is a show of indecision, and lack of will. You will note that violence greatly increased when the current guy laid down his version of "bring it on", mostly because he won't admit who the enemy is. So the theocrats know he's theirs. Do YOU have any constructive ideas on how to preserve freedom on this planet against the theocratic murderers? Any ideas that are not knee jerk propaganda from the enemy? Some subtle wisdom that might actually help? I know it's highly unlikely to be listened to by the neomarxist putz's in D.C. or Ottowa, but I'd like some good advice. Thanks. (Message edited by aesquire on June 29, 2010) | ||
| Aesquire |
Oh, and the idea that a few stern words from a distant U.S. President could possibly even dent corruption in a medieval society?  (Message edited by aesquire on June 29, 2010) | ||
| Toronto_s3 |
Aesqire. Things are quite fine up here after the crap storm, not that it affected me in anyway. No words of wisdom or insight from me as far as the mess with Karsai. I figured you would have all the solutions. Three billion is quite a bit of money to get sent out of Afghanistan for God knows what don't you think? I just hope the next U.S. government has the guts to go after all of the rest murderous theocratic governments of world. More of your tax dollars to liberate those in Iran, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia and Sudan. | ||
| Aesquire |
Glad to hear you're ok. Our government have guts? only for the cause of fundamental transformation to a Euro-style social democracy. ( which, by the way, I oppose.) I Really Don't Know what Obama's foreign policy is. He certainly hasn't told us, but I bet it sucks way more than Bush's. Hard to believe, eh? Let's say it's up to you. We'll pop for the liberation of the planet, ( haven't we always? ) but how? Let's see your list. Indonesia? Just as soon be friends. Aren't we now? Saudi Arabia? While they are a major source of the poison, Don't see a way to change that until we convert our electric grid to nukes, fusion, Orbital Solar, etc. and can starve out the rot. Going to war with them seems rude, since we are allies. ( might suck, I might have other opinions, but Obama bows to Their King ) Sudan? Can't we let the U.N. handle it? If we wait long enough all the Christians will be dead, and it will calm down. Right? Solves that one, unless you have an idea? thank you. Iran? Now that's a problem. Not only is our President more willing to negotiate with the mullahs than the head of BP. I have severe doubts he can deal with them. Don't think he's competent enough. What's he got they want? So pretty much looks like a wait to see if TelAviv or Tehran nukes the other first. Iran probably already has nukes, and has built it's weapons program on holy ground and with civilian human shields. Israel doesn't have the airpower to take out Iran's weapons program with conventional warheads. We do, but we're not planning to. I of course have an armchair general warplan to do the job in Iran. ( it won't work, of course...they never do. Any Ideas? ) | ||
| Aesquire |
Three billion is quite a bit of money to get sent out of Afghanistan for God knows what don't you think? I do agree. But the current Congress "lost" way more than that giving it to their buddies in the banks, and have no Idea where those billions went to. Nor do they care for you to find out. ( I'm not happy about it, but they don't care what I think....I only vote once per election, and they already have my union dues ) How IS Canada doing as far as avoiding becoming a theocracy? Your Demographics are not quite as dire as Europe, I hope you are having better luck assimilating immigrants than, say, France. ( where if the riots stay in the enclaves the police are not allowed to enforce French law in, they no longer report it to Reuters ) You have Sharia courts, yet? We're doing mediocre so far. The Prez. has his faith, ( whatever he calls State Worship, with himself as God-King ) and the islamics are making inroads daily. I'm appalled at the number of "honor" killings, ( the leftist press isn't ) and assimilation is pretty low, most places. So far, haven't been called into a Sharia court, so I have hope. ( pity about England. ) | ||
| Toronto_s3 |
There are no Sharia courts in Canada. There was a brief experiment in Ontario where they tried them out but then after some ridiculous Islamic rulings the provincial gov't stepped in and put an end to it. As far as assimilating immigrants goes. You never assimilate immigrants until the third generation so it is what it is. First generation comes to the new country and never stops talking about how great everything back home was, second generation born in the 'new' country speaks both languages and has nostalgic sense of belonging to the old country instilled by the parents. Third generation can't be bothered to learn two languages is embarrassed by the backward parents who do, plays hockey and eats maple syrup and marries out of their ethnic circle. Are you a little depressed by the lack of assimilation you see around you Aesquire? If I recall correctly Pres Bush had a hard time accounting for the emergency relief money he injected into the economy after the credit default fiasco. I don't think it was entirely a democratic dilemma | ||
| Aesquire |
I knew Canada had a basic good sense. Proud to see you escaped the Sharia court thing...for now. SO true on the Bush Tarp program. that Financial version of "we had to destroy the village to save the village" except in this case "village" means Capitalism. You will note that those that gave Bush suuuuuuch great advice are still running things. Also the Bush gave control of that money, nominally under the secTreas's control to Obama. Idiot. I understand about the multigenerational nature of assimilation. I work every day with foreign students and doctors, from all over. Some kids practice Cricket, others jump to modern games. The movement to islamize America is very well funded, by groups like CAIR who also support terrorists, it's all part of the same thing. Spreading theocratic rule by any means necessary. Only the Green Socialist religious movement has more momentum under this regime. It's a bother, as I support that whole religious freedom thing that's the foundation of our law. So, depressed? no. Adamant. Since I doubt anyone has advice on cutting back corruption in medieval societies, like Southwest Asia, any ideas on how to defeat the mass murderers? Just giving me a laundry list of theocratic regimes to overthrow is bogus. Most of them are not actively evil....though that day may come. Just because many countries that have Parliaments have gone to war with their neighbors doesn't mean we should take out Canada. You have to go on a case by case basis. Example. It might be better to take out the Holy lands first and deal with the worldwide war while the West still has a technological and military edge. Without the Saudi and Persian contributions to global terrorist expansion of Islam, after a very nasty war, it might be in retreat for another few centuries. I find that Idea morally suspect though. Realpolitik says it has issues too. We might have to take on Russia and China. Deaths could range from 50million to 4 billion people, as ICBMs are exchanged and scorched earth policy takes over. Not that I want such a thing, but Obama's foreign policy is a "reset" on the old way, and he's a thin skinned inexperienced guy who is likely to over react to a threat. (Message edited by aesquire on July 02, 2010) | ||
| Aesquire |
http://article.nationalreview.com/437466/afghanist an-agonistes/victor-davis-hanson | ||
| Liquorwhere |
TORONTO – Despite a whopping $900 million security budget for the G-summits in Canada over the weekend, the streets of Toronto were swarmed by an angry mass of black-clad anarchists who wreaked havoc, leaving a trail of destruction. A protest organized mainly by labor groups Saturday began as an upbeat rally over global causes, ranging from anti-poverty issues to anti-globalization to anti-war. Then, without warning, the protest was infiltrated by a group of mainly young men and women who went on a rampage, smashing storefront windows with baseball bats, torching four police cruisers and prompting police to fire tear gas for the first time ever in the Toronto Police force's history. When it ended, more than 900 people had been arrested, the largest mass arrests Canada has ever seen, and police Monday were still looking for the instigators of the widespread wreckage. In the aftermath, many are asking how a country that has a universal reputation as the nice guys, whose lexicon is filled with please and thank yous, who don't start the wars, but support the troops, could have erupted in such violence and chaos. Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair told The Associated Press Monday that the culprits were anarchists, hundreds of whom were a mix of Torontonians and others who made the trip from across the province, the country and border, for a sole intent: to engage in chaos and violence. "They came here because they saw this as a weekend of mayhem and they came here to commit criminal acts," said Blair. Police were well aware of the potential for large-scale trouble and destruction. In preparation, the government spent an astounding $900 million on security for both the G-8 summit held in Huntsville, Ontario, and the G-20 in Toronto. Almost 10-foot-high (3-meter) steel fences were erected in the downtown Toronto core to protect the center where G-20 leaders were meeting. More than 19,000 security officers were deployed in both host cities. Prior to the mayhem that ensued on Saturday, many were referring to Toronto as a police state and Toronto, the fortress. As the city cleans up the mess, many are scratching their heads wondering how Toronto fell victim to the violence and how the assailants were able to run reckless given the security measures and expenditure. "We knew of three or four groups. I think what was a surprise to me was how many hundreds, perhaps even as many as a thousand people, joined in this rampage of wanton violence in the city," said Blair. "That exceeded my expectations and it presented a challenge to contain." Blair said the anarchists were able to storm the city by using what is often called the black bloc tactic. Black bloc is a strategy that has been employed at summits and protests for decades, going back to 1981, when hundreds of police raided squatters at dozens of houses in the former West Germany, resulting in six people being charged for founding and belonging to a criminal organization: Schwarzer Block. The black bloc. Although black bloc does not exist as "a group," it does as a strategy. The strategy is adhered to mainly by people who consider themselves anarchists. They show up at large demonstrations clad all in black, usually leaving only their eyes unmasked and attack symbols of capitalism such as banks and large global corporations or franchises. "We're basically all individuals with the same goal. There's no organization because anarchists don't believe in organizations. We don't believe in hierarchy so there can't be any sort of leader," black bloc adherent Luther Blisset told The Associated Press. "We hit the ground running, meeting up with others dressed in black and figure out things then." The black bloc tactic is rooted in the violent battles that anti-nuclear activists had with police in the former West Germany during the 1970s. During the clashes, the so-called Autonomen dressed in black, wore helmets and obscured their faces to unleash their destruction. "It's more of a philosophy or an approach, or actually I suppose the most accurate term is an extreme sport," said security expert John Thompson, of the Mackenzie Institute think tank in Toronto. The idea of wearing the all-black uniform is that everyone looks alike so when a crime is committed, the group disperses, making it next to impossible for police to identify the perpetrator of the crime. It also prevents them from being singled out in media coverage. The hope is that police react to their violence while the perpetrators shed their black clothes and melt into the crowd, making it even more difficult to be identified once they've unleashed their destruction. Thompson said even though people who use these strategies are typically disorganized, there seemed to be organization in Toronto's protest. Many of the violent demonstrators used cell phones to tell others where police were located, said Thompson. With this somewhat high level of organization, the black bloc followers were able to run rampant for at least 90 minutes Saturday without being apprehended. Police relegated many of their resources to the perimeter area close to the summit site and the U.S. Embassy, but the anarchists essentially outsmarted the extensive security plan by taking advantage of vulnerable parts of the city while police officers were focused on the large demonstration and the summit perimeter. "We had a lot of the resources here to specifically protect that summit site, so they turned their wanton recklessness and criminality loose on our streets and as they rampaged up our streets, we had to use more of our resources quickly to contain them and unfortunately they burnt some cars and smashed some windows before we were able to do that," said Blair. Thompson said the black bloc tactics are "straight out of primitive warfare." "They don't like being flanked or surrounded. That actually panics them," he said. "They're looking for risk-free violence." Violence and destruction are no strangers to protests. Images of aggressive protesters were captured during the 1999 World Trade Organization ministerial meeting in Seattle. Since then, the black bloc has been present at almost every world event, smashing, breaking and destroying stores, vehicles and anything else they come upon. In Seattle, it was McDonald's and Nike. In Toronto over the weekend, banks, Starbucks and several other stores, as well as police headquarters were the victims of wanton black bloc violence. If a storefront window wasn't shattered, it was spray-painted often with messages of "No More Prisons" or the anarchy symbol of A encircled. "I see nothing wrong with these actions. We got our message across and I'm proud of that," said Blisset, the black bloc adherent. "It shows a lot of people think what (world leaders are) doing is wrong. The system needs to be overhauled so the rich don't keep getting richer while the poor get poorer." http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toron to/weapons-seized-in-g20-arrests-not-what-they-see m/article1622761/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/civil -liberties-group-wants-public-probe-in-g20-police- conduct/article1622912/ | ||
| Toronto_s3 |
Aesquire. I read that piece by Victor Davis Hanson. It's an opinion piece and the man is entitled to his opinion. When I was in Afghanistan in 2008 I had an Afghan female translator assigned to me via the Canadian military base. This woman was well educated, she had attended university in The Netherlands and she had a added a lot of insight to the whole Afghan dilemma for me. In short, her answer to what the biggest problem in Afghanistan was Pakistan. Most Pakistani's consider Afghanistan to really be another part of Pakistan. The Pakistan military is the defacto government and is led by Pashto leaders. The majority in Afghanistan is Pashto. The Pashto people and the majority of Pakistani's are pissed at Britain and the U.S. over Kashmir and what they see as American sympathies with the Indian government and American favouritism for India over a Kashmir resolution. The Pakistan military sends hundreds of millions in dollars and equipment to their Taliban "brothers" because they figure if they can't get what they want in a Kashmir resolution they will get what they want in an Afghanistan resolution which would be Pakistani control of Afghanistan. So Pakistan makes appearances that it is making war on occasion with the Taliban but in reality Pakistan is the biggest supporter of the Taliban. It is Pakistan's continual meddling and back stabbing that will thwart any true U.S. success in Afghanistan. Pakistan must be dealt with. I can tell you from my own experience there that that lack of education was what I saw as one of the biggest issues. Until you get the population educated that human life has a value, that reading is fundamental, that women have a value in society nothing will change too much there. If only the Karzai gov't mandated a compulsary public school system there might be a chance to turn things around in a generation. Why the U.S. and the coalition of the willing don't build more schools over there is beyond me. | ||
| Toronto_s3 |
Liqourwhere. Don't believe everything you read about the "Toronto Riots". There were two riots in Montreal that caused a lot more damage and far more people were injured than what happened in Toronto. Of course those were riots over hockey games but who's counting? The reported figure of 900 people being arrested was a joke. The Toronto police, in their over zealous militantism probably arrested about 300 actual protestors and 600 regular citizen bystanders who headed downtown to see what the fuss was all about. The cop cars that got burned out were a joke. It seems now that the police left some old Crown Vic cruisers randomly around just so that anarchists would have something to set alight. If you read your own link here you can see the ridiculous police claims about the "weapons" they apprehended... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toron to/weapons-seized-in-g20-arrests-not-what-they-see m/article1622761/ The Toronto police force should be ashamed of themselves for the manipulation of the incidents. I mean if your going to create a Wag the Dog fiasco for the G8 summit could you at least prance around some rocket launchers or something instead of some geek's padded arrows he uses for weekend dungeons and dragons games | ||
| Aesquire |
Re: Toronto police/riots That's 2 cases I've seen where the contents of a car etc. could easily have been mine. I of course have zero intent to riot for my cause, but I do practice martial arts with toys like that....had a chainsaw in the car today, for example. ( for a tree, no, really ) My interpretation of your attitude toward the TPD is that the PR flacks suck. While your town was attacked by violent outsiders, ( roman way, decimation, that's the ticket....) the police seem to have little to show but reaction to the attack, and a butt load of money spent protecting the guests to Toronto. Sorry about the town. You're right that dog don't hunt or wag. ( otoh, A bad guy could effectively use the toys displayed to hurt someone. Of course, that's true if they displayed a rock..... ) Remember these are classical revolutionary terrorist types you had in Toronto. The idea is to make the police crack down & torque off the honest citizens. If you're mad at the police instead of the bozos in black, you bought into their schtick. I don't know if that applies to you, but figure it out and correct your head if needed. If you got it right, good for you. Screw anarchy. Good point about Pakistan. The Taliban needs that border to hide behind, just like AQ in Iraq, and every "insurgency" in history. That's been my complaint about the running of the "war on terror" on all it's fronts. Then there's the psychotic notion you can fight a war to not lose. Doesn't work that way.... If the war of 1812 had been fought like that, I'd be a subject of Her Majesty today. | ||
| Sifo |
Why the U.S. and the coalition of the willing don't build more schools over there is beyond me. They build them and when they are finished they get blown up by the Taliban. At least that's what I've been told by a soldier who was building schools over there. | ||
| Toronto_s3 |
Aesquire. As someone that own's a business and property in downtown Toronto, anarchy is the last thing I want to see happen in Toronto. I don't have any esteem for the goofs involved in the Black Bloq (which is in effect a traveling side show of anarchists that follow these international summits around to seek media attention). If you were able to watch any of the live feeds of the news coverage, and not the edited content that shows up on your nightly news, you would have seen a large segment of the arrested "protestor's" were a budhist monk, tourists to Toronto, women, senior citizens and teens, some of them as young as 12. I know of a parent whose 14 year old kid was in the detention centre over night because he had the misfortune of being at the downtown skateboard park one block away from one of the larger Black Bloq episodes. Teens at the skateboard park were approached by Toronto police and were told they needed to surrender their skateboards. The seven kids that refused to give up their skateboards were taken to the detention centre without being offered a second chance once they were zip tied. I don't see how that is justifiable police action. As a citizen of Toronto I respect the police. I am not exactly sure how it was that over the weekend of the G8 summit they went from considerate, thoughtful law enforcement to a bunch of militant thugs. Unfortunately I think police leadership has failed here. I would imagine that Canadian military would have done a superior job if given the same mandate. Sifo. I have no idea what percentage of schools built are actually destroyed in Afghanistan but would it be so hard to have each school defended by a couple of police daily or a dedicated 24hour school security team. Would it really cost that much in the grand scheme of things? | ||
| Aesquire |
The Taliban regime of absolute power, zero responsibility, and unwavering conviction that God is on their side, so murder of children and women is not only a good, but a mitzva ( a good deed performed out of religious duty} seeks to be the pattern for all mankind. Islam means submission. Now would be a real good fraking time for all the athiests to rally against those that would impose their faith on others by force. An evil that has as a built in part of it's "holy law" that those who do not submit to the will of God will be allowed only to live as slaves, or as temporary second class citizens paying a tax on being allowed to live. Even coverts to the faith have a second tier list of privileges, behind the lifetime faithful. Alas, the leftists have embraced islam as a tool to destroy the western liberal civilization that the left itself opposes in favor of a false utopia ruled, of course, by the ideologicaly pure. It makes no difference to the typical leftist that the islamic ideology considers itself the master, and the left as the tool to gain their goal of worldwide domination. It makes no difference that the basic facts of islam, the slave owning, the treatment of women as property, and the medieval cultural traditions including the repeated & increasingly common execution by torture of women whose crime is to have been raped, are supposed to be an anathema to the leftist cause of workers equality. I can only conclude that evil is stupid. But some evil is more stupid than others. Get it clear. We free people. They enslave. We build schools. They burn them with children inside. We spend our hard earned wealth. ( every single motherfraking penny comes from the pocket of a guy who works for a living....every single penny. ) They complain we don't give them enough. Figure it out. | ||
| Aesquire |
Toronto s3, seems like the black asses are winning. Unlike the religious terrorism from islam, the idea of the "revolutionaries" is to make the police be jerks, so YOU are mad at the police, not the professional jerks that invaded town. It's not a winning situation for the police. Or an honest citizen. To repeat ( ad nauseum if need be ) they went from considerate, thoughtful law enforcement to a bunch of militant thugs. IS THE POINT. That's 7 sets of skate-parents that are furious, dozens more that had their rights stomped on, and more than that that had property destroyed and lives disrupted. Now, You want to blame the G-20 people and your government for putting Toronto into this situation.....fine. But you would be better served to note that the "budhist monks and children" were used by the bad guys. You still seem unclear as to who the bad guys are. | ||
| Sifo |
Sifo. I have no idea what percentage of schools built are actually destroyed in Afghanistan but would it be so hard to have each school defended by a couple of police daily or a dedicated 24hour school security team. Would it really cost that much in the grand scheme of things? Sounds easy enough. I think the problem is that the Taliban simply has to wait until it becomes a soft target. One thing that people in that area are known for is waiting it out while holding a grudge. This creates a real problem as you are trying to transfer security over to the local government. It would also be easier if BO had provided the number of troops that were requested to meet the mission being given to them. Our military are pretty much the best in the world, but all too often they are hamstrung by politics. | ||
| Sifo |
Sifo. I have no idea what percentage of schools built are actually destroyed in Afghanistan but would it be so hard to have each school defended by a couple of police daily or a dedicated 24hour school security team. Would it really cost that much in the grand scheme of things? Of course if providing security were that easy the whole G20 thing in Toronto should have gone smoothly. Toronto isn't even in a war zone! (Message edited by SIFO on July 05, 2010) | ||
| Toronto_s3 |
Aesquire. You should realize I don't understand what the hell you are saying at times. "Alas, the leftists have embraced islam as a tool to destroy the western liberal civilization that the left itself opposes in favor of a false utopia ruled, of course, by the ideologicaly pure." What the hell are you talking about. A few more details would be nice. I have things figured out in my mind. I don't think the U.S. intervention in Afghanistan or Iraq has been successful to date. I think that George Bush should have used other means other than large scale invasion of those countries to get Bin Laden. I don't think any American administration either democratic or republican has the balls or political will to finish the job as it should now be finished. If America truly sees itself in a fight with Islamic extremism you should get off your asses and deal with Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia and Iran as well. Invade all those countries, sweep out the theocracy which you seem so fearful of, change the education systems so that future Islamic children see the United States as a liberator and lets get on with it. You can change things now and create a new period of peace for North America and Europe or you can come back from the mid east some time in the not too distant future with nothing changed and nothing finished. It's your country, you have the power to change things, why aren't you and the rest of the Buell Moral Majority doing something about it? | ||
| Aesquire |
A few more details would be nice. Attorney General Holder refuses to admit that "radical islam" exists, certainly that it's a threat to anyone. This regime is extreme leftist and seems to believe that it can ally itself with the theocracies and bring about a new world order, with good marxist principals. They are wrong in so many ways. Not only has the ideology they love oppressed and murdered hundreds of millions of people, it has fundamental flaws that make it impossible to have freedom, and their way, at the same time. They don't see it that way. "we are the people we've been waiting for" is their mantra, and they believe that they can do what Stalin, Castro and Pol Pot could not, make an inherently evil system work for good. "if only we'd been in charge, the Soviet Union would have been a success." It's as wrong as believing you can win races in a Superbike class with a 250 Rebel. There is an overweening ego involved that is sure they are right, and all that came before just were not as smart, as wise, as pure. "we are the ones we've been waiting for" No wonder they are angry. Don't count on even the disputed rationality of the Bush years. Perhaps you are right and large scale invasion was the wrong way to go in Afghanistan & Iraq. Not the way I would have gone if I were in charge. Probably a good thing I wasn't. In fact the Afghan Front was not a large scale invasion, but intelligent, small scale actions that used the local tribes as shock troops, and tossed out the murderous Taliban. In the Future the liberation of Afghanistan will be studied as a model of military genius. The occupation will not. The unwillingness to properly identify the enemy, is, alas, not confined to the Obama Regime. Bush too failed in that. The Iraqi Liberation was also swift, with minimal casualties. The occupation was attacked with support from without and the vast # of civilian deaths are to this day caused by AQ and Saddam's former thugs. Many civilian deaths attributed to allied forces were not civilian, and not killed by our allies. the propaganda war was well done and the guy in the White House today was part of it. Many of our Congress are treasonous curs who parroted enemy propaganda for political purposes, and in so doing gave aid and comfort to the enemy. So, while I would, ( IF I were in Charge ) deal with the Saudi's, Paki's, and Iran in a far more useful manner, I wouldn't touch Indonesia or Asia at all if I could avoid it. Why do so? The root of the theocracies is in Iran and Araby. What has Indonesia done? ( that Canada could change, for example ) Dry up AQ's funding, and things should improve world wide. So, in that imaginary world, I put pressure on the Saudi's to cut funds to AQ, which means I must build more nuclear power plants to offset the oil lost. That's a win/win. I eliminate the mullahs and govt. in Iran, that takes 2 days. Then I have a war with China & Russia, who are allies with anyone who hates you. ( that leftist/islamic hellish partner problem I complain about above ) WW3.5 takes 2 weeks, tops. If you are lucky a Russian ICBM doesn't miss Buffalo or Rochester and flood Toronto with radioactive lake water. Perhaps a different approach? That's why I ask for ideas that seem conspicuously absent. You seriously want us to conquer the world, AGAIN, and have bright ideas to make it work? ( we gave it back last time, in 1945, Who says we'de do THAT again??? ) It's all very well to say we should do things differently. I agree. I don't think any American administration either democratic or republican has the balls or political will to finish the job as it should now be finished. no kidding. The idea of enlightening those currently under hellish rule by the Islamofascists is great. They would shoot you if you tried. I don't see any way to win this war without actually fighting it. It's your country, you have the power to change things, Elections in 2010 & 2012 are the only means we have. This Regime has an agenda. By 2012, we may not be able to protect Europe and Canada. Good luck. why aren't you and the rest of the Buell Moral Majority doing something about it? You seriously think that anyone with a brain would admit to counter revolutionary actions, online, in an international forum? We are of course loyal citizens who simply take advantage of our First Amendment rights to complain. No one here would dream of anything but absolutely peaceful discourse. Right guys? | ||
| Aesquire |
A few more details would be nice. Hmm. I realize you lack the background history of this problem. back in WW1 the various tribes in the Middle East fought for one or another side. The Ottoman Empire died with WW1 and Churchill and co. redrew the maps to suit the European Colonial Powers. The U.S. was not listened to. ( Nor was Canada, I bet. ) In WW2 the tribes that fought for the Nazi's later fought for the Soviets, and Saddam's family/tribe is one of them. The Soviet Union has deep ties with certain tribes/nations and has supplied them arms since WW2. Still do. It's Russian radars and missiles that stand guard over Iran's Nuclear facilities and Syria's homeland and terrorist allies/minions. It makes no difference that the terrorists they support would and do attack them. it makes no difference that Russia's greatest danger is from the islamofascist they have oppressed and murdered, they see the theocracies as a tool to hurt us to their gain. I only can assume that Russia's leader think they can double cross the islamofacsists after we get damaged. I'm not sure about that. Before the Gulf War (back in the ancient 80's, remember? ) Leftist Americans joined the cause of the "oppressed and justified" terrorist groups with money, human shields and protests. These cretins support a theology that would murder them first. Irony is usually funny. These jerks are tragic in their blindness. All that is Bush is not evil.... bummer, but true. I even support a few things Obama stands for....though I'm still waiting to see if he simply lied about them, like so much else. Leftist lie. It's what they do, It's how they accomplish anything. It's part of the nature of the Dialectic. Don't ask a right winger....they don't understand. Ask a former leftist who has seen the truth. Christopher Hitchens, perhaps. | ||
| Liquorwhere |
If you read your own link here you can see the ridiculous police claims about the "weapons" they apprehended... Toronto...you seem so interested in our tax dollars, the post was an attempt to show you where near a billion of yours went recently and that it was a bunch of BS as the end result...so when someone starts spouting about things that they "think" they understand..and I assuredly do not understand all of Afghanistan, George Bush and most of all the appeal of living in Canada, I like to look at where they are coming from...it was just a look. Carry on with bashing Bush, as it is fashionable it seems, and although I couldn't stand him as my President it was much less to swallow than this current individual that no matter how much it disgusts me to write, Obama is my President, and we will have to live with his poor judgment as much as we had to live with GW's judgment, poor or otherwise and I think that when someone seems to revel in pointing out how the strong nation may stumble, it is right to remember we are the strong nation still, and you are a citizen of Canada.....sorry about your luck. | ||
| Aptbldr |
What purpose is served assigning/endorsing terrorism in the name religion? | ||
| Aesquire |
Religious feelings bypass the rational mind. Reason is not a large part in believing that certain writings from centuries ago are a reliable code of behavior or lifestyle. ( They indeed may be so.... but reason is required to determine which ones.... and many "faiths" discourage such examination. For obvious reasons ) It has been argued that certain religions ( islam, communism/progressivism/state worship, those jerks in kansas that picket soldier's funerals ) are in fact constructed or modified to act as recruiting tools and behavior modifiers. Many have argued that the purpose of religion is societal behavior control. The concepts of good and evil are closely related to religion. In simple terms.... if the preacher/mullah/teacher tells you that an action is the "will of god" and that by doing such action you will receive a special place in heaven, it's quite a strong incentive. If that action is honest dealings with your fellow man and respect and fidelity to your mate....thats my idea of a good thing. YMMV. If that action is the rape & slaughter of children in a theatre for the glory of god..... that fits my definition of evil. YMMV ( but if you disagree with me on that one, I don't really want you on my planet. Just saying. ) Unlike the recent terrorist riots in Toronto, that fit the classic marxist revolutionary mold, religious terrorism plays upon the weakness of modern, western society. "we" don't want a lot of people murdered, and with the aid of a moronic and leftist press will pressure our public servants to limit the carnage. AQ in Iraq, for example, could care less about the police cracking down on the people to try and stop terrorism. Their goal is to intimidate the people into being afraid to inform, not cooperate, and resist their agenda. Since most normal people just want to be left alone to live their lives, being afraid that your own children will be served to you in a forced cannibalistic ritual is probably enough to keep most folks head down. Don't you think? Current demographics indicate that most people in Europe, Canada, and the U.S. will have ample chance to be subject to religious extremist influence or Sharia law. Unless we refuse to accept it as part of our culture. I'm an American. Rule one is no state religion, and I get to bitch. The natural corollary is others get to bitch too. Nothings perfect. Rule 2 is I get to shoot back. You can see how people who don't like rule 1 really hate rule 2. | ||
| Aesquire |
create a new period of peace for North America and Europe That would be wonderful. I'm all for that. Thats' what I want good suggestions for. I was under the impression that that was what we had achieved since WW2. Other than the Soviet's conquering eastern Europe, the long Cold war, the various puppet wars, ( mostly fought away from Europe and America.... like Korea, Vietnam, Africa, etc. ) Then the eventual transformation of the Soviet Empire into Greater Russia ( an ongoing process. Who knows what Russia will become? ) All in all, a period of peace and Prosperity for most of Europe and America. ( Canada included ) What lies ahead is possibly not so pretty. Depends on a lot of factors, like expansionist Russia, the collapse of the Social Democracies as the holy welfare state proves it's fundamental demographic and economic flaw. ( it doesn't work ) ... come back from the mid east some time in the not too distant future with nothing changed and nothing finished. Ah! there's the rub. That would be what has happened since WW2. over and over. Really like ideas to fix that problem, too. I'd really like ideas where we don't have to occupy anyone too. That would be nice. | ||
| Aptbldr |
Identifying terrorists/criminals as (insert religion) seems like a poor practice to me. Doing so grants the terrorist/criminal a larger group identity than reality. Falsely serving the terrorist/criminal by associating them to a strong "brand identity". Doing so falsely demeans positive elements of that larger religious brand population. It's elementary stereotyping, and that's less than reasonable discourse. | ||
| Sifo |
Identifying terrorists/criminals as (insert religion) seems like a poor practice to me. In the case of the Muslim extremist terrorists it seems irrational to ignore the connection. The religious part of it is real. They radicalize, recruit, train, and warehouse supplies and weapons in many of their Mosques. To ignore the religious connection is to ignore reality. | ||
| Aesquire |
If a certain sect of Baptist preachers were calling for their followers to slaughter women and children to force people to give them the power of law, life, and death over everyone, I'd be complaining about that. I'd insist that the "peaceful" Baptists Preachers disavow & condemn the actions of the "radical" Baptists, and want the "moderate" baptist population to inform and condemn as well. If the "radical" Baptists slaughtered the "moderate" ones to terrorize them into silence, ran schools around the world preaching hatred and the way of terrorism, I'd bitch about that. Many would insist that "Baptism is a Peaceful Religion" and condemn ME for pointing out the obvious. That there are Baptist sects that insist they are the one true faith and all others must bow to them. That evil people use religion as a tool and the faithful as weapons, and point to their own teachings as evidence that they are evil. That's the state of the planet today, just change Baptist to Islam. The bad guys have hijacked the faith. If the "moderates" ( and they are the vast majority ) don't like to be tarred with the same brush, let them speak up, and take action. No amount of B.S. from Bush about how "peaceful" Islam is means anything to a Moslem. What does he know? Obama, with extensive experience as a Muslim, ( from childhood...who knows what his adult "faith" is? ) Doesn't even bother to spout that crap, just pushes a pro islam agenda even in the diminished and decaying NASA. I have little experience in the Holy books of the Baptist faith. ( other than the Bible in a couple of forms ) Do THEY call for mass slaughter of the infidel? Do they call for slavery and dhimmitude for those not Baptist? Gee, I hope not. I have read the Koran, once. Spell it how you like, I read the Richard Francis Burton Translation. Odd, I can't find it on Amazon. It had a most enlightening gloss that gave details and references to battles and culture. I read the Gloss more than 3 times. I also liked his translation of the Kama Sutra, though it's not as accessible as more modern versions. The Quran does indeed call for religious law to be the law of the land. I'm pretty sure that most of the insane crap foisted on the planet by the mullahs is some jerks interpretation of the Koran and how to live life, but not all. It didn't say anywhere in the King James Bible that you were going to hell if you had a Porterhouse on Friday. That was the work of men. It is rather adamant about worshiping other gods than the approved one and only. It has been argued that Islam is by it's designed nature built deliberately to make it easy to whip up hate and direct it at the enemy. I'm not sure that was it's original purpose, I'll leave that to better scholars than I. In the end, it comes down to THEY claim it's a holy war and the very nature and purpose of their faith to make all men submit to ( their View of) the will of god. There are lot's of people who think that's a grand idea. A couple of hundred million by last count, though, lucky for us, very few take action to make it so. | ||
| Aptbldr |
"That's the state of the planet today, just change Baptist to Islam." Comparison requires changing Christian to Islam. Moderates in my neighborhood (South Carolina!!) and in media I read are speaking up in protest. Christian Bible contains plenty of slaughter & atrocities provided with full theological support. "They" are people, some fundamentalist sects are conducting themselves as criminals. "They" are not religious clones. Live your love, my brothers. I was drinking when I entered this thread; I'll soberly depart.  |
