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Hex
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 11:25 am: | 
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Waffle, waffle, flip flop, flip flop...
Republican Backpedals From Apology to BP
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/18/us/politics/18ba rton.html?hp |
Reindog
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 11:38 am: |
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Hex,
It is called politics, dude. Barton was going to lose his seat if he didn't apologize for the apology. I don't think Barton's original apology was fundamentally incorrect but it certainly wasn't politically savvy. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 12:27 pm: |
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It is a sad thing when a politician is forced to apologize for saying the right thing. That is bound to lead to an inconsistent message as you get back to speaking the truth. Shame on those who are leading the BP lynching. I would be far more impressed if these people were putting their energy into solving the problem. There will be plenty of time later to assess the blame. The problem is that government is from from not having oil on their own hands in this.
Can anyone explain to me how is it that BO wasn't sure if he had fired Elizabeth Birnbaum from the MMS or not. When you fire someone you should damn well be sure you fired them. Now I understand that her replacement has zero experience with oil. Isn't this kind of like putting a thermostat executive in charge of a motorcycle company? Does anyone here think that has worked out well? |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 12:34 pm: |
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Hex,
Have you seen that the oil slick has gotten to Hawaii?
 |
Hex
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 12:43 pm: |
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http://www.roffs.com/deepwaterhorizon.html
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Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 12:51 pm: |
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Hex,
Why are you circling the area that say's "Oil?", "Oil?", "Oil?"? Seems clear that who ever did this analysis isn't clear where the oil is. It's clear they aren't making your claim that it was past the south tip of FL though. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 12:55 pm: |
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So how many billions will go unaccounted for from the BP escrow account. My guess would be in the 3-5 billion range. That would be pretty typical for this sort of government handled boondoggle. Any other predictions.
Of course if the UN gets to watch the funds I would double my prediction. |
Buellkowski
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 01:00 pm: |
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Reindog, Sifo, c'mon guys! I don't care if you're anti-Obama, but don't be anti-Obama at the expense of the folks who were harmed by this accident. Would you rather BP do right by their shareholders or do right by the people and property they've harmed?
Did BP have to cough up the $20B escrow fund? No. But I'll bet they decided it would be in their best interest after much internal and external deliberation. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 01:11 pm: |
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Reindog, Sifo, c'mon guys! I don't care if you're anti-Obama, but don't be anti-Obama at the expense of the folks who were harmed by this accident. Would you rather BP do right by their shareholders or do right by the people and property they've harmed?
Did BP have to cough up the $20B escrow fund? No. But I'll bet they decided it would be in their best interest after much internal and external deliberation.
If BO had done a halfassed job of handling this I would be more accepting of the situation. For weeks he simply voted "present". Then it was just demonize BP, and stop all drilling by everyone. If the problem was from short cuts done by BP why hurt other oil companies that happen to provide jobs to many of the victims of this accident? That would be like forcing GM to stop selling cars until Toyota finds the problem with their cars.
As I pointed out earlier that escrow account works in BP's favor in many ways and may protect them from further liability. I really don't see where it protects the victims of the oils spill though. I do see where it will become a huge temptation for fraud and theft. Do we know who is going to control the money yet? How are they going to verify that they are paying for real damages? How much money will just go unaccounted for? Surely BP will refuse additional funds if funds go unaccounted for, right? |
Rwven
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 01:12 pm: |
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Buellkowski,
I don't object to the 20 billion dollar escrow account. I object to the way it was politicized. This should have been done earlier and with BP and the Administration appearing to work together on it. After all the Administration and Congress had no problem working together with BP drafting Cap & Trade legislation.
How's this for an eye opener:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic le/2010/06/17/AR2010061703899.html
Lobbyists for BP hosted at least 53 fundraising parties for lawmakers and candidates in recent years -- four of them since the explosion and oil spill at a BP-run oil drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 01:14 pm: |
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Who cares who says what fix it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Our president may have leaned on the company but why did they put themselves in a position to be LEANED ON in the first place . We are arguing over who is fkin us harder do you realize that. AH fkit who cares people only seem to care if they are right or wrong not about a result and fair distribution cause if they did the leak would be fixed and the money distributed end of story |
Reindog
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 01:21 pm: |
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Kowski,
Pure BS. Of course, BP must be held accountable but there is an established process for this. Obama acts as an Imperial President (remember when Leftamaniacs screetched that term at He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named?) being jury, judge, and executioner. It is nothing but political subterfuge to hide the fact that Obama sat on his butt for almost 2 months.
BP will pay. BP made mistakes. Newsflash: there will ALWAYS be accidents and what is important is to create a system and environment which will minimize the possibility of mistakes. Political lynchings solve NOTHING but create MORE anarchy.
Keep on this track and BP will declare bankruptcy. This will affect the pensions of tens of millions of the "little" people. You want a full scale Depression? Let Obama continue being Capitalist despising Socialist that he is.
WTFU, dude. |
Buellkowski
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 02:14 pm: |
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A President leans on a recalcitrant foreign nation threatening our livelihood and he's standing up in defense of our country.
He leans on a recalcitrant corporation threatening our livelihood and he's overstepping his bounds.
I don't get it. But I'm glad you guys do. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 02:20 pm: |
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In what way was BP recalcitrant? Are you talking before or after the accident? If you are talking about before the accident, then the reaction after the reaction is misplaced. |
Rwven
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 02:47 pm: |
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The only folks I see being recalcitrant are the Prez and his Congresscritters. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 05:16 pm: |
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Buellkowski, it all hit home for me watching the BP updates on what they were doing to plug the well, versus the congressional / presidential response to the spill.
The BP response included seeing how much hardware could be scrambled on site. It included a plan (being executed), a backup plan (being staged), and a backup backup plan (being executed). Heck, the kind of problems they were struggling with were how to manage so many ships doing so much work in a single square mile of ocean. I saw state of the art technology, careful thought, and an acceptance and acknowledgment of responsibility combined with a commitment to make things right.
Then you watch Washington go into action. I saw Obama and congress blame Bush, blame BP, reiterate that it wasn't their fault, blame other political parties, remind us it wasn't their fault, posture and harrumph, remind us that it wasn't their fault, and make committments to really yell at people like that would somehow make things better. And remind us that it wasn't their fault.
The idea of control of 20 billion (which was no doubt already budgeted to be spent) being transferred from the control of BP (who we have by the short hairs anyway) to Washington (who is accountable to no one, and who wastes the vast majority of every dollar they touch) has me profoundly concerned for the people on the coast.
Have you been watching the way Pelosi / Reed / Emanuel / Obama play ball? When BP was in control, to be made whole, you had to show real damages as a result of the oil spill (taking them to court if necessary). The laws are settled, the courts are sympathetic, the rules are clear, and BP has plenty of money to pay. With DC in control, to be made whole, what do you have to do? Show allegience to the current administrations agenda and worldview? When the government took over GM, the lenders that had been keeping them afloat got 25 cents on the dollar. The democrat supporting unions got one dollar on the dollar. That was par for the course.
I don't think it is a step forward.
The adminstrator of the money is one that has done it before for the 9/11 stuff... I don't know their history. Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised and they will handle it well and without regard to politics and without incurring a lot of fraud... It would be unusual... |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 05:35 pm: |
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Bingo Reep,
This was a shakedown in classic Chicago fashion.
The pockets are already being lined.
We've seen Biden's net worth skyrocket as a result of being in Washington. I can't wait to see what Obama's net worth increase will be following his reign.
I bet he will leave with the greatest net increase in personal wealth of any President in history.
Jingling all the way. |
Cowboy
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 05:45 pm: |
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2 ataboys for Reepicheep he has hit it dead center. |
Reindog
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 06:14 pm: |
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What Reepicheep said. Well done!
I just don't understand why every American can't see through the thinly disguised veil of the corrupt and anti-private sector Obama administration. It is so crystal clear that America is on a dangerous course. Alienate our allies. Placate our enemies with silence. Raise taxes. Destroy our health care. Hobble our economy with "cap and trade". Borrow trillions of dollars from a potential enemy. Nationalize industries. Expand an already bloated federal government. Look the other way as an army of illegals overrun our country. Demonize the private sector. Blame everyone else for your own problems. A determined enemy couldn't weaken America more than Obama. I despise what this guy represents. He is teaching a hoard of Americans to become slaves and slackers beholden to the government tit. America as a country is absolutely finished unless the pendulum is restored. Soon. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 06:30 pm: |
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The adminstrator of the money is one that has done it before for the 9/11 stuff... I don't know their history. Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised and they will handle it well and without regard to politics and without incurring a lot of fraud... It would be unusual...
I don't want to sound cold hearted to those who lost family members on 9/11 but it was like hitting a financial jackpot for most of them. Meanwhile many businesses that were hurt drastically as a direct result were left to fend for themselves. My wife's company was an example of this, Official Airline Guides, connected to the airlines, but not considered a victim of 9/11.
EDIT: Dead on Reepicheep!
(Message edited by SIFO on June 18, 2010) |
Buellkowski
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 06:42 pm: |
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Kenneth Feinberg, who administered the 9/11 victim's compensation fund (established to preclude lawsuits against air carriers and to provide quick, impartial compensation to victims & their families), has been chosen to administer the new BP cleanup/compensation fund. Feinberg will be paid by BP for his services.
Do any of you have evidence the 9/11 fund was rife with government waste? Do any of you believe the 9/11 victims & families should have pursued "existing legal channels" for their compensation claims?
(Message edited by buellkowski on June 18, 2010) |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 07:28 pm: |
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As I said the 9/11 victim families made out like hitting the lottery.
quote:the average payout was $1.8 million.
My heart goes out to them, but what makes victims of 9/11 worth 1.8 million? Get murdered under normal circumstances and you get squat. Military families get a small fraction of that when service member get killed in the line of duty.
Some will see this as government waste, others may see it differently. Keep in mind that these families also could get additional compensation from the numerous charities that sprang up to help them out. |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 07:46 pm: |
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dude your treading a thin line there no where near everyone got that so I'll be nice and ask you to not talk about something that was a Godammed tv event to you |
Reindog
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 07:51 pm: |
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In English, please. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 08:01 pm: |
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dude your treading a thin line there no where near everyone got that so I'll be nice and ask you to not talk about something that was a Godammed tv event to you
I am trying to tread lightly, and am certainly not trying to place blame on the victims of 9/11. I am providing a source for the info I posted. Anyone is free to refute it with any info they see fit. I apologize, but I just don't know how to have this conversation without treading that thin line. |
Buellkowski
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 08:05 pm: |
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Feinberg says he will work to have claims to the fund processed and paid within 60 days. Try getting a corporate lawsuit settled in two months. Think of all the legal fees that won't be paid.
This fund is good news. Characterizing it as a "shakedown" infers that the money is not deserved by its claimants in the emergency manner in which it will be distributed. |
Cowboy
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 08:13 pm: |
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The people need to be compsatied TRUE but to put that money in the hands of the incompodent fools in D C is plain stupid |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 08:23 pm: |
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Toronto s3, I see you guys are getting the G-20 mess this year. Good luck.
http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCATRE65E4R B20100617
Let us know if your life is messed up by the legit & bogus protesters and the police effort to keep them under control.
I may not agree with Joe Barton, but I'm sure I disagree with the jerks that made him apologize for his apology. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 08:25 pm: |
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BO promised that this fund would be administrated by an independent party. Appointing someone who is already one of BO's Czars isn't exactly what I would call independent. This is especially true when the US government will certainly be a party looking for compensation from BP. Just another in a long line of broken promises by BO. |
Reindog
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 09:02 pm: |
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The $20B doesn't stop there. The Government will probably start treating it as a free source of money for the General Fund until they bankrupt BP. This has already happened to Social Security and the Highway Fund. There is no reason to believe that this incompetent government won't try the same. Hopefully, they will get caught and THE PEOPLE will have grounds to impeach the rascal.
Koski, tell us why you love Obama so much. I am puzzled. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 09:15 pm: |
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I know the idea of using that money to fund the new health care program has already been floated. If that were to happen then I would hope that BP would indeed be recalcitrant. |
Toronto_s3
| | Posted on Saturday, June 19, 2010 - 09:33 am: |
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Aesquire:
You are right we are getting the G20 mess here in Toronto. We don't have anything in production while the G20 is going on so it's not that big of deal to me. I'm heading up to the cottage with the wife and kids on the 24th for a week so I don't have to deal with any extra traffic. I've had some offers on the building I own downtown so the wife and I are going to sit down with my lawyer, drink some vino and figure out if we are going to sell out now or not. |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Saturday, June 19, 2010 - 06:16 pm: |
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Depends on whose economic forecasts you believe.
The WSJ had an article that said only 13 "experts" had it right (on the mortgage/property slump/financial mess ). Ok, why does anyone still listen to anyone else? Real puzzler, there.
I note Glenn Beck, with zero economic training called it right....but it seems to me he is always predicting disaster. Do it all the time, you are right some of it. Still, he did call a lot of stuff the "experts" were clueless on.
The "money show" guys on the radio ( who make a living on the economy vs. the brainiacs who don't ) say that the big tax increase next January is going to give us another market dip, but things are going to look better than warranted before then as the smart guys ( who can afford to ) take profits in this year, and will hold off on investments until a new Congress gets in. They are hoping for better taxes later, and just going to ride out the economy by investing in Gold, Real estate, commodities, etc.
I'm not sure. But, if they are right, I'd sell this summer or fall, and stash that profit in something inflation resistant. ( Gold, seems to be a bad idea right now...to me. How about a couple 1125r's? ) |
B00stzx3
| | Posted on Saturday, June 19, 2010 - 07:22 pm: |
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Keith Wandell caused the oil spill. |
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