| Author | Message | ||
     F_skinner |
I have said in the past that I like my 1125's better as they are superior in every way In every way???? Gee Froggy, I cannot understand why your getting flamed. I really can appreciate my 1125. It is a fine machine. I do not believe the 1125 is superior to tubers or any other bike in every way. Each type of Buell is something special and different. BMC is the only motorcycle company that produces a unique and significant bike every couple of years. I like them all. (My favorites are for different reasons. For all around fun the XB12Scg or S1W are it unless I am riding more than 300 miles then the S2 is my favorite or if I am at the track then the 1125 is my favorite). Fat B, If you want an apology you got it. I did not know you were quoting someone else. By all means you are entitled to your opinion. I think we all are, correct? Froggy you too, I apologize. Like I said, it is my opinion and not important to anyone but me. Again, Johhnylunchbox, I am terribly sorry for hijacking your thread yet again. Last Post, I promise.... 111 010 | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I understand the sentiment Frank. I have been quite irritated by the assertion that 1125s are "real Buells" and that the XBs were "junk". I loved, love, and will love an XB. I appreciated the time Tim gave me on his CR. We put nearly 400 miles on it. I couldn't wait to get off of it. Although it's a marvelous machine, that time was enough for me to know that I didn't want one. I want an SS or STT. The XB line I love wouldn't exist were it not for the Tubers. I've ridden both. I prefer the XBs. The Tubers are not, however, without charms. I could see myself owning both. As to the original topic, a Buell with an HD logo on the tank would be no more of a successful than a Sportster that isn't a cruiser. Only a few dealers understood the Buell market. The rest didn't. If you don't understand your intended customer, how the bike is packaged is irrelevant. | ||
| Brumbear |
I love the XB platform and it was the funnest bike I ever owned until I bought the CR and realized that the watercooled powerplant was a fantastic step foward the revs and hp again are ight where they need to be to keep a MAJORITY of riders happy. This IMHO makes the 1125 platform a better BUELL but I still want an X-1 | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I've also discovered that just more HP isn't enough. | ||
| Firebolt32 |
If Erik Buell was so damn good, why did he never make money for his company? Because he had a passion for it. He did what he loved to do. Some people don't care if the money is made from that passion. I was introduced to Buell through H/D. My dad, brother and many friends have Harleys. I LOVED my XB! If you were to slap a Harley tag on a 9R, I'd buy it. I don't care what the sticker says. I'm a looks and performance type of buyer. If it looks good and handles well...I'll take it. | ||
| Augustus74 |
Do you like the bike? Good. Enjoy it. But also understand this: Buell never made a penny's profit for Harley-Davidson. They never even broke even, once. If Erik Buell was so damn good, why did he never make money for his company? The dealership owners all knew it, and they resented this product being produced and subsidized all these years. This is a business. I have no regrets that I never would have anything to do with Buell, and I shed no tears that they are gone. Let Erik Buell go and empty out someone else's pockets, now. Good luck to them. I thought I read that 2% of HD profits was from Buells?? Could be wrong and that probably doesn't seem like much but how much did HD really invest in Buell anyway!?!? He was making their motors better and coming up with all kinds of innovations before he ever worked for them! | ||
| Court |
Good deal of highly inaccurate information here. | ||
| Danger_dave |
I can do you a bad deal if needed too. | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
Thread has drifted a little off topic. Imagine that.  | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Is it at all true that Buell didn't turn a profit? Why would some dopey dealer know one way or another? I'm thinking that HE didn't turn a profit from Buell. Remember the dealers that had brand new tubers still for sale at 2001 retail prices? I wonder how much of a profit those toolbags made from Buell? | ||
| Anonymous |
Bookkeeping can be doctored to do many things for a corporation; money can be juggled between different departments. And when some of those departments are run by the politically connected, why it's a great way to bury their sins. Read the Cycle World article carefully to see where the money went. For a little insider info, do you really think a Blast motor should cost $2200 to make, not even including tooling amortization, billed separately? Those of you really in the manufacturing business know the answer to that. And externally, good Buell dealers made money, bad ones didn't. The good dealers were really upset that Buell was shut down. | ||
| Firebolt32 |
The good dealers were really upset that Buell was shut down. Mine laughed! | ||
| Court |
Buell would have saved money . . . on the BLAST . . . by going to a dealer and buying the individual component and building the engine. | ||
| Patches |
"do you really think a Blast motor should cost $2200 to make" "Buell would have saved money . . . on the BLAST . . . by going to a dealer and buying the individual component and building the engine." Who Owned Buell? Who Sold Buell the Blast Engine? | ||
| Davegess |
by going to a dealer and buying the individual component and building the engine. Not quite true but dam close. Every Blast sold lost money for Buell. But H-D would not let them stop building and would not raise the price. Every Blast engine made and SOLD to Buell was sold at a tidy profit. So who was losing money? | ||
| Patches |
"Every Blast engine made and SOLD to Buell was sold at a tidy profit. So who was losing money?" Who paid for Research and Development at Buell? How much did Research and Development at Buell cost Harley? Where is the tidy profit? | ||
| Rainman |
I was a big Harley guy, complete with faux colors, skulls and dew rag, when I first rode an S-2 or 3. (I can't remember which, but it was called the Thunderbolt, I believe) That was back in 1995 and my first comment to the dealer was "this is the way a Sportster is supposed to handle." I rode a Sportster at the time. When I rode an XB for the first time in 2006, I said "this is how a Sportster is supposed to feel." When I bought my Blast after the Wing died, I said "this feels like my old Sportster." In short, I believe Harley could have marketed the Tubers as Harleys and the XBs as Harleys had they adjusted their corporate think. They could have kept the Sportster line and rebadged the Buell-designed bikes as "Roadsters" or something and launched a campaign to pull in new blood. Unfortunately, they were mired in the 80s marketing that saved them from bankruptcy without thinking of the future. | ||
| Anonymous |
How about being charged $3.00 per mile for testing, Patches? Never mind, you don't get it. Fact is Buell was used as a scapegoat and burial spot for huge cost over-runs of other parts of H-D. Bad news was that all of H-D was having cost over-runs and only the huge profit margins on touring bikes and great sales was keeping them alive. Which is why the whole company crashed so hard when sales slowed down. Possible good news for the future of H-D is that the majority of the jerks who were playing these games have been fired or "left to pursue other interests". Whether or not the new team will continue to make mistakes will be known five years from now. | ||
| Tpoppa |
"Every Blast engine made and SOLD to Buell was sold at a tidy profit. So who was losing money?" Who paid for Research and Development at Buell? How much did Research and Development at Buell cost Harley? Where is the tidy profit? HD owned Buell. They could mandate that Buell buy a $10 part from HD for $1,000. HD could recognize a profit on the part and subsequently state that Buell is losing money due to cost overruns. It's the accounting version of a shell game. | ||
| Oldog |
How about being charged $3.00 per mile for testing, Buell was used as a scapegoat and burial spot for huge cost over-runs of other parts of H-D. Typical of poorly run big co's The comments above by the dealer about EB demonstrate his ignorance and inability to adapt to a new situation // use a new opportunity. Hd killed the golden goose, what could have been done had the moco, used its wild card maveric to his advantage and properly marketed it, me my mind reels.} | ||
| Patches |
“Patches? Never mind, you don't get it.” Boy I sure don’t get it- America is in a Recession !BUT! President says the Economy is Doing GOOD, Unemployment is Still High, The Executives are Still getting BIG Bonuses, I sure don’t get it. In 08 & 09 The Buell Product Line Averaged 7K per Bike where as Harley Davidson Product Line Averaged 14K per Bike including Sportster. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Considering the top selling bikes are tourers and that all of the tourers are over $20,000, $14,000 per bike average is piss poor. Considering that one of the largest selling bikes was the Blast (thanks to Rider's Edge) and that the average RETAIL price on those is $4,995, $7,000 average is pretty good. It isn't about the average sale price. It's about the margin and the volume. | ||
| Patches |
"It isn't about the average sale price. It's about the margin and the volume." Sales Volume Nearly 10 Harley Davidson Product Line to 1 Buell Product Line. I sure don’t get it. Ya-Right. Buell Product Line was not a money maker read the SEC Harley Davidson Financial Report. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
Whether or not the new team will continue to make mistakes will be known five years from now. that's assuming that Harley-Davidson will still be in business in five years! If Wandell and his board of idiots stay there, no chance the company will still be in business! when you have a product that will sell (Buell Motorcycle Company), you need to sell it, NOT pay money (borrowed Money that is) to dismantle the company. That was an extremely bad business decision that will ruin any company. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
You can make the argument that Buell didn't make enough money compared to HD, but Buell was as much a victim of internal funny money as you could get. One could look at the Blast compared to the XB line and see that there isn't 50% of the bike in it. Interesting that the ONLY bike available for Rider's Edge would be priced unreasonably for retail sale. There's $500 in profit maximum for any Blast. The price/benefit ratio isn't there compared to competitive bikes. Most of the Blasts sold were used Rider's Edge bikes. Pricing a bike so that it is only marketable after it is used doesn't seem like a very profitable way to do business. | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
Rainman said: In short, I believe Harley could have marketed the Tubers as Harleys and the XBs as Harleys had they adjusted their corporate think. They could have kept the Sportster line and rebadged the Buell-designed bikes as "Roadsters" or something and launched a campaign to pull in new blood. One would think the marketing geniuses at HD who've made a living selling - and making desirable to many- HD emblazoned toilet brushes and golf tees might have been able to get this right and sell sporty bikes. | ||
| Glitch |
H-D marketing is excellent at selling an image, not necessarily machines. The V-Rod should have been a top seller, they just couldn't figure out how to mesh the image of a liquid cooled bike with a hardcore biker. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
hypermotard *drools* how much for it? It's a 2008 with 680 miles on it. We're asking $8995. Beautiful bike. | ||
| Brumbear |
I don't even know where to start how to explain this one so Patches cheers I'm outa this one | ||
| Glitch |
I don't blame Patches for what he understands, and what he doesn't. The corporate world is an alien one at best. If it weren't for the many many years I spent at Coca-Cola Corporate Head Quarters in the Legal Division I'd be in the dark as well. We all know that any given equation has a sum. What I learned, is that corporate entities start off with the sum, and come up with the equation to suit their needs. So while the math is correct it not always right. |
