| Author | Message | ||
     Danger_dave |
No wonder. I still think that part of their reasoning is for a lot of average Joe's, a new Sportster is now enough Buell for the job. | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
This is what 20yrs of innovation looks like at HD 1990  2010  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
If the 2010 didn't look like the 1990, the core customer wouldn't buy it. Period. That said, other than appearance, the 2010 has as much in common with the 1990 and the 1970 would with the 1990. | ||
| Two_buells |
>>>>This is what 20yrs of innovation looks like at HD 20 years of the Fatboy, just what I can think of.... counter balanced twin cam engine Fuel Injection single gas tank better lights, signals Security system Stronger frame electic speedo 4 piston brakes 6 speed trans | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
Oh I don't deny that there are improvements. But that's what 20yrs "looks" like To the casual observer they're the same bike. Hell, the "new" designs; '48, XR, wide-glide, are all meant to look like even older models and marketed directly to that point. I don't see HD adopting any "cuting edge" designs anytime soon. (Message edited by Not_Purple_S2 on May 15, 2010) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I don't see HD adopting any "cuting edge" designs anytime soon. Couldn't agree more. | ||
| Brumbear |
FI because they had to. better lights and signals 6 speed trans electric speedo and 4 piston calipers whats next maybe cushion drive because aside from FI my 1977 had all of the same stuff minus an electric speedo and a 6th gear but it didn't really need it cause it could do a buck thirty any time you need to of course that was a cable so maybe not that accurate but I never really saw to many behemths at those speeds anyway | ||
| Two_buells |
>>>>I don't see HD adopting any "cuting edge" designs anytime soon. Couldn't agree more. Me too! I'd be the first one to bash the MOCO and I work there! I hate what they did to Buell. Now HD needed to cut some of the fat. I can see sticking with the core product, but they also need to get into Sportbikes, Dirtbikes, Adventure bikes and ATV’s. They had most of that innovation with Buell and still to this day can’t see why they closed Buell. My opinion, Harley’s failure with Buell was what we all know is that Harley didn’t support Buell. HD made big money on the core product and could care less about Buell or innovation. | ||
| Danger_dave |
Aye - the 6 speed gearbox is the lipstick on that hog. | ||
| Brumbear |
Oh by the way my 77 was a KZ | ||
| Cobradave93 |
"Who on BadWeB cares? Maybe BadWeB'ers that own Buells and still work there......" Ditto... | ||
| Tom_b |
I agree with Ft. Bastard. The core H/D customer wants nothing to do with the vrod.Because it doesn't look or sound like an H/D should | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The real question is whether the next generation will accept HD the way their parents and grandparents did. At the time that most baby boomers were exposed to their first motorcycle, there wasn't a single Japanese competitor and no such thing as a "sportbike". The current crop of HDs are some of the most advanced, most durable bikes the MOCO has ever produced. Unfortunately, that advancement is restricted within the limited box of previous model designs. The VRod is a perfect example. How much money did HD have to spend in the design area to take a sport bike motor and disguise it to make it look like a cruiser in hopes the core market would accept it? If you look at it, the core HD buyer is the only customer who not only rejects other brands but rejects other types of motorcycles as not being "real" motorcycles. Yesterday I worked for quite a while with a guy and his son who are looking at buying him his first street bike. He's been riding his brothers 883. The choice came down to a used 97 Sporty 1200 and a used 12R. Dad made the comment that if he got the 12R he would "look kinda weird" riding with the rest of the family all on Harleys. Really? Why? I don't think I've ever heard a group of VTX riders tell someone that they would look weird riding a non-cruiser with them. I'm no marketing genius, bit it appears that HD has been successful at building a retail locomotive rolling hall balls. Unfortunately, no one has given much thought about the tracks ahead. (Message edited by ft_bstrd on May 16, 2010) | ||
| Cityxslicker |
what will HD look like in 2020?... amazingly ripped and reimpressioned and chromed version of something somebody else already thought up....  | ||
| Danger_dave |
I think they have given due thought to what is ahead - and investment. I spent a weekend on the road with the 'platform director' of VRSC once. Quite insightful (and we both dropped V-rods.) The problem is the market has largely rejected all the best bikes they have built. That bit has got me stumped. | ||
| Danger_dave |
And a V-rod isn't one of the best for mine either BTW. Street Rod is. XR1200X is. FXDX was. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
I agree with comment on the V-rod "Street Rod ", that along with "R" model Sportster were a couple of my favorite Harley's. Too bad they stopped making them. Maybe they discontinued them thinking they didn't compete very well against the Buell line. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The best selling bikes we have on the floor are the big touring bikes. Street Glide Electra Glide Sell more of those than anything. Always have. Sold nothing but last month. So far have sold 2 for the month of May. How much forward design can one get from these models? I doubt the core market would accept a "Victory Vision" job on these models. | ||
| Danger_dave |
I have an interview opportunity with the Vice President of Motorcycles, Polaris Industries next week. Local launch of Cross Country. | ||
| Tom_b |
Victory Vision... great bike, but no draw for h/d or h/d wanna be riders. If i was to buy a BIG cruiser, the vision would be it. The vrod line just died because the core buyers wouldn't buy them,. I liked them, but for the cash would hav rather owned about 12 other bikes, and settled on my buell. (Message edited by tom_b on May 17, 2010) | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Every bike of theirs I like they kill or cancel and it is a long list Hummer Ranger 165 Xr 750 Mx 250 Xr 1000 XLCR 1000 FxR Mt-500 FXSTB (the bad boy Springer) FLSTSC (the Heritage Springer Classic) FXDX XR883R VRSCR BUELL the Rooster (Griffen) F*cktards!!!!! And soon to be, just watch XR1200X before it is even available here FXDF with mid controls. | ||
| Finmars |
They are a victim of their own, successful, marketing. They have failed to maintain diversity in their portfolio.No beginners bike, no commuter, the bread and butter models to build a range on. All the least bought versions of their range are the most capable,aside from the Tour Glides,of their street bikes. Joe public brought up on a diet of media, easyriders/hollywood hype want the most "Chopper" styled model in the range.Lord forbid that there may be ground clearance and sensible ergonomics for anyone under 5'10". And because Harley has pandered to this market for so long when they do introduce some innovation, VR, XR they have to package it within the conservative confines of their 'core market',(Style over Design), and thus drive away new customers who may like the product but do not want the 'box' it comes in. I have a few friends who would buy a 120hp liquid cooled torquey v-twin from Harley if it had a decent wheelbase. They could/should have utilised the MV design team or even Buell in their time within the confines of the MoCo to create a range of Harley badged street fighters with their own identity stamped on them. Imagine a V-Rod Hellcat or Brutale. That would surely lure in other customers from outside the Core market. Maybe it's not too late,time will tell.  | ||
| Paw |
With Wedall in charge it is to late and H-D will never stray away from the aging core. Would not doubt to see H-D file for bankruptcy in 2020. | ||
| Danger_dave |
I wonder why there hasn't been a 'Heritage' Styled V-rod? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
It isn't the styling. It's the motor. | ||
| Xb9er |
I talked to the owner of my dealer today and he said he went to a meeting with good ole Ken and he said that he was sad to shut down buell and thinks buells were top notch but they werent making any profit (yeah okay...moron). So maybe the 2020 sporty will be a xb12s | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
This is the Sportster I want:  | ||
| 46champ |
You can have a Sportster like that you just have to build it. It does look pretty sharp. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
you just have to build it. Plan to.  | ||
| Danger_dave |
Very tasty Picky I know, but that rear end would not be legal in most countries. Why thar are cheese graters in the world. |
