| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
It's was likely very easy for HDMC to shift sportster engine & driverrain costs over to the Buell variants, especially for engineering efforts. If HDMC sold engines to Buell at a profit, were those profits credited to Buell? Were Buell parts and accessories profits credited to Buell? Lots of questions. Thanks to Steve Andersons excellent reporting, we now know how HDI/HDMC so utterly hobbled Buells efforts to succeed. The really poor deciders who were responsible for those decisions should have been the targets of scrutiny and a savvy CEO would then have finally turned Buell loose unhindered upon the world sportbike market. | ||
| Doerman |
And Wandell has never explained why he is clinging to the Buell patents, trademarks and IP. Could it be to forever bury the Buell story? If so, he did not count on EB and his tenacity to move forward. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
You guys are SO right! Harley people are the biggest A-holes alive!! Just this past Sunday me 'n Prior stopped at Tuggles Gap (local mostly-Harley hangout up the Parkway) for some grub, and at first they wouldn't let us in 'cause Alex was wearing a 'Stich!  I argued with them that at least he wasn't wearing a one-piece full suit, just the jacket, and they finally backed down and said, "OK, cool." But THEN they noticed that I had ridden in on my Harley wearing a full-coverage helmet and they tried to throw our asses out again!! Yeah, we finally got our lunch, but it was like ICE in there the whole time, like every eye in the place was on us. I'm telling you, anybody that has ANY association with Harley-Davidson is nothing but a, um, er, how do you REAL motorcyclists say it? Oh yeah, DOUCHE CANOE! (insert your favorite "tongue planted firmly in cheek" emoticon here: __________ ) | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
I bet they spit in your food.... | ||
| Reepicheep |
Any time a motorcycle executive starts taling about "the products" instead of "the bikes", you *know* you are in trouble. | ||
| Crusty |
Gee, Jerry; I thought this was a shit on Wandell (deservedly) thread. Why are you taking it as a personal attack on Harley owners? | ||
| Reindog |
Take it easy on Jerry. It has been a long winter cooped up in his log cabin. With Denise........ummm...... never mind.  He has probably coped with cooping considerably well. Jerry is just gitting crotchety. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Gee, Jerry; I thought this was a shit on Wandell (deservedly) thread. Why are you taking it as a personal attack on Harley owners? Crusty, perhaps you missed the "tongue planted firmly in cheek" part?? But, yeah, Reindog's got it pretty much nailed.  FB | ||
| Blake |
"And Wandell has never explained why he is clinging to the Buell patents, trademarks and IP. " Excellent point. Indicates vindictiveness. | ||
| Road_thing |
Jerry, it's obvious from your picture why they didn't want you in there: Your helmet isn't color co-ordinated with your bike! What the hell were you thinking, man? rt  ...for the humor-challenged... | ||
| Rainman |
Loud jackets save lives!!!!!!!!!1 | ||
| Court |
>>>Loud jackets save lives!!!!!!!!!1 I use the SAME jacket in NEW YORK CITY and swear by it. | ||
| Blake |
Resists dumpster dirt too. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Crusty, a more serious answer to your question: I was poking fun at the stereotype that anyone with an association with Harley must be a cretin (for lack of a better word). I've ridden many brands of motorcycles in many states, and I don't see the alleged "persecution" from Harley riders that continually makes the rounds here on BWB. All I see is riders getting along. Case in point is mine and Prior's visit to Tuggles Gap on Sunday. As you can tell from the pic it isn't a "Harleys Only" joint. Nobody cares WHAT you ride, only THAT you ride. I'll admit I ain't norml, but I even went so far to compliment a Suzuki SV-650 rider who pulled in right behind us on his choice of machine. I was sincere; I've got a lot of seat time on this particular motor, and it's every bit as good as the mags always say. The cool thing is is that the guy simply said, "Thanks!" He didn't look at me like I was some sort of freak because a Harley rider was digging on his Japanese ride. It didn't matter to him WHAT I was riding, only THAT I was riding. Down the Parkway from us an hour or so is the little wide spot of Laurel Springs, North Carolina, nestled right up against the Parkway. Gorgeous little burg, blessed by not one but two biker-friendly eating establishments next door to each other, good food, grassy acreage fronting the Parkway on one side, a small stream on the other, all the cold malt beverages you can drink, and live rock 'n roll every weekend during the season. As you can imagine these places are PACKED with motors on the weekends, literally hundreds, and, as might be expected, it's mostly Harleys. But it's not EXCLUSIVELY Harleys. Everyone is welcome (not by "rule," by common sense), and in four years of going there, not ONCE have I seen an ounce of 'tude directed at someone because of their choice of ride, regardless of what country their motor was made in. British, Japanese, German, Italian, American, and everything else, it's all always good. I do business with three different local Japanese bike dealers (up until recently D had a Yamaha Virago in the garunge, but sold it and now sports around on a Kawasaki Ninja). I've NEVER gotten a bad vibe after pulling into any of these places on the RK (even *gasp* wearing my one-piece Roadcrafter...). They really don't seem to care. I'll admit that I seldom see Japanese bikes (or even Buells, for that matter) when I visit any of the five H-D dealers near me, but I'd bet you a tall cold one that no one would care if I rode in on D's Ninja. Yeah, this is the FUWandell thread, and I'm OK with that. Some of the comments seem pretty immature, but it's certainly not for me to be everyone's virtual father (and Mr. Wandell can surely take care of himself). I just get weary of hearing about all the them-vs-us persecution. I'm not naive enough to think it doesn't happen, but I doubt it's as rampant as some would suggest. They say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'd argue that "reality" falls into the same category. FB | ||
| B00stzx3 |
"And Wandell has never explained why he is clinging to the Buell patents, trademarks and IP. " so no more fuel in frame, oil in swingarm, ZTL  ???? | ||
| Milt |
Delusions of persecution are all too common here. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Wayne and Jaime - Sorry for taking a shot at you gents. Some days I get a little too righteous for my own good I guess. I understand the passion at work here, and this is, after all, a Buell enthusiast forum. Take care fellas. You ever find yourselves this way and the first round is on me. FB | ||
| Midknyte |
Unlike Copyrights, Patents *do* still run out, don't they? | ||
| Rainman |
Like Jerry, I've never gotten crap at my local H-D dealership when I show up on the dirt-encrusted, grime-slagged, daily beater and commuter Blast with the cheap soft luggage. Neither have my rice-riding buddies. There is another local dealership that announced to the entire world that, when I rode up on my old lowered, souped-up Sportster, that it was "time I got a real bike." Haven't been back there since. As for Wandell, H-D is not the great icon of motorcycle freedom or the last bastion of integrity and honor to which one may swear fealty like a knight to a king. They're a public-traded corporation with profit as the bottom line. They are motorcycling GM -- complete with competing fiefdoms and internal bureaucratic squabbles -- and all they care about are shareholder's dividends and company profits. That's it boys. Don't believe the hype. They are nothing to believe in. Buell, on the other hand, proved himself different. I look forward to the future. In the meantime I'll consider Harley along with Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki and Triumph when I buy my next bike. May the best bike for the best price win. | ||
| Jaimec |
I don't think Erik NEEDS the "Oil in Swingarm" deal. That was something he came up with to address the relatively ENORMOUS size of the Sportster engine, and how small he wanted to make the XB bikes. The 1125R engines were specifically built to Erik's specification, and carry their oil in a separate tank attached to the engine. Better for mass-centralization and still keeps the ground clearance of a dry sump engine. Can't think of any reason why Wandell would want to hang on to the ZTL patent. WTF is he going to use it for?? I can guarantee it'll never appear on a Harley. It looks "too different" and Harley is all about looking the same. Same goes for "Fuel in Frame." Could you IMAGINE anything with a Harley Bar & Shield sporting the frame necessary to hold fuel too?? Vindictiveness, pure and simple. But I also believe "Fuel in Frame" was something Erik came up with to address the unique needs of a V-Twin engine. They're both tall AND long, but they're also narrow on top, so wrapping the fuel around the engine made perfect sense. If Erik decided on a different engine configuration, say an inline twin, triple or four, then the space originally occupied by the rear cylinder could easily hold fuel, just like most of the WSBK bikes do today. I think the only REAL loss, then, would be the ZTL braking system (and all of its derivatives). That would be a real shame. | ||
| Court |
You guys are far too consumed with this whole legal "patents, copyrights, non-compete" and so forth. I've yet to meet single person with a fact . . . it's all spinning from internet yarns. Focus on what CAN BE DONE not what can't and you'll always fare better and find yourself in better stead. | ||
| Hughlysses |
IIRC, the "fuel in frame" concept is not patented. The associated patent was regarding the "break-away" headstock feature of the XB frames. Even if certain desired features are locked up by patents (which as Court says, has not been established) who better to figure out how to "skirt" the restrictions of a patent than the guy that came up with the idea in the first place? (Message edited by hughlysses on May 04, 2010) | ||
| Hootowl |
Think it had to do with the bike he was racing being top heavy after a fuel stop, not so much a v-twin thing. | ||
| Davegess |
Hee Hee Hee | ||
| Iamike |
Jerry & Alex's problem wasn't the 'Stich's', it was the WILD HOGS patches on their backs. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Jerry & Alex's problem wasn't the 'Stich's', it was the WILD HOGS patches on their backs. Mike: Harley fan or not, that was the worst movie ever made. Couldn't even get all the way thru it, that's how bad it stunk. So, yeah, reckon we oughta remove the patches, and maybe reconsider the wisdom of the whole lick 'n stick tattoo dealio. Jaime, that was an apology (and offer of free beer) from me to you several posts back....... FB | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
PS to Thang: Jerry, it's obvious from your picture why they didn't want you in there: Your helmet isn't color co-ordinated with your bike! It's a new helmet, modular, not an Arai or Shoei like I usually get, but a decent lid all in all. It's a metallic silver color and I got it NOT to match the bike, but to match what's left of my hair.................. | ||
| Crusty |
Jerry; your thoughtful and detailed answer to my question is causing a few thought to come to the surface of my mind. As a preface, I am not one of the H-D haters. I bought my first Harley in 1981, and have owned several. I've logged over a quarter of a million miles on an assortment of Harleys, and I've worked as a mechanic at a couple of H-D repair shops. I've been to biker bars all over the country, and I've seldom seen motorcyclists of any brand treated badly because of their chosen ride. However, prejudice does exist, and it's most prevalent at dealerships. Two quick examples; my wife's previous bike was a Moto Guzzi Breva 750. She put 36,000 miles on it in just over two years before she decided she wanted a Buell. We had just returned from a 5,000 mile ride to Colorado, and we rode over to the H-D/Buell dealer to get some oil & a filter for my bike. We got into a discussion with a "Hardcore" Harley rider. After the usual introductory pleasantries, he turned to Terri and said, "When are you gonna get rid of that thing and buy a REAL bike?" His 3 year old Soft tail had less than 4,000 miles on it. One of my favorite dealers anywhere sells BMWs and Moto Guzzis. One day I pulled up on my '06 Uly. Alan was outside with a customer who was looking at a BMW. AS soon as the Customer saw my Uly, his eyes lit right up with interest. He asked Alan, "What model is that?" Alan replied that it wasn't a BMW, it was a Buell. The Customer said,"OH." in a tone that Thurston Powell III might have used, and literally turned his nose up and turned away. When I bought my M2, the salesman invited me to a meeting of the local HOG chapter. the way I was treated after I said I had a Buell stopped me from ever considering going to another HOG meeting. Prejudice does exist. You may not see it, but it is there. I hope everybody will excuse me from diverting from dumping on that overpriced jackass CEO, but I just felt I had to make a point. | ||
| Gohot |
I never found one yet that could catch my o'l 05 FZ1, clossest was a Buellor that 'other' Harley, the water cooled one..... | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Crusty, thx for your thoughtful post. I've seen the "holier than thou" attitude on behalf of some Harley riders with my own eyes (altho it's been awhile), and it has actually happened to me (again, it's been awhile), so I know it exists. It certainly doesn't seem to be as common as it was when I first started sniffing around Harleys back in my yute, but I make that statement with the knowledge that my contact lenses are usually rose-colored. Plus, I ride a Harley, so it's reasonable to assume I don't get too many fellow Harley riders criticizing my choice of motor. Hence, if I don't have a problem, you don't have a problem, right? Yeah, I know, that's a pretty myopic way of looking at things. I'll say this: If I was in the company of any of you, anywhere, and someone seriously got in your face over your choice of motorcycle, they'd have to deal with me, too. I need to let y'all get on with the KDubya bashing. Ride to lean, FB |
