I had a Kawasaki H1 just like that one. It was a very fast bike in it's days. I'm lucky to be alive to tell about it because that was when I was young and stupid, speed didn't scare me back then. Nod days I know what can happen in a motorcycle wreck and I'm very careful on my Uly these days.
Me too Don, the difference was/is, it scared the $#!+ out of me when it hit the power band...and I LOVED it! I'd like to have another, except with a less flexible frame, and real brakes. 0-120 in the blink of an eye, of course it was topped out, and shaking like hell, but what a ride! I even had the nerve to pack the crank, and put expansion chambers on it.
Theres a fix for that Glitch. You put a H1 engine in the 400 chassis believe it or not.My buddy just sold his. Rather a fun bike to ride. Brakes though???? What brakes??
after I purchased my H1, my friend purchased a H2 (750cc) and that was even faster with about 12 more horsepower than mine. I had trouble with both bikes keeping the front wheel on the ground when the power band came on. It was fun back in my youth but I couldn't handle it now days.
Somewhere there is the original "frog" thing that was amazing...........accelerating,coasting ,coughing.....the whole two stoke works..........have not found it. I just come up with different versions of the one above........even tho it is the same dude doing the "voice" .
There is a guy in England who actually grafts two extra cylinders on to the old Kawi H1's and H2's. I don't remember exactly what the displacements were but I know ther were in-line five two-smokes. As for the EPA thing, I remember when 500GP bikes went 4-stroke that Lotus (I think) went on record saying that they have two-smokes that run cleaner than an equivalent 4-stroke. Put that in your pipe and smoke it Mr. Gore !
I think the rub is that four strokes have had about a billion man hours of debugging and refinement.
I suspect there is a reasonable chance that a modern materials and engineering rethink of a two stroke motor could create motor that is more powerful and far lighter then the best four strokes, and that had comparable fuel consumption (per HP) and reliability.
But I'm sure getting that debugged and working on a mass production scale would take another 11ty billion hours or thought and testing.
Though I would love to have one. The simplicity of the engine really appeals to me, and making the bike really powerful and really light accomplishes things that a heavier bike will just never be able to duplicate.
I'm surprised we haven't seen a full electric drive hybrid that has a two stroke motor in it yet...
Vehicle charged from the wall, but has maybe 10 gallons of gas and pre-mix. Drive is all electric, but when batteries need more juice or the driver hit the "sport mode" button, a 500cc two stroke motor spins up and runs at exactly 1 insanely well tuned RPM speed, and charges up the battery.
At "that perfect RPM", a two stroke can be almost as clean and efficient as a four stroke, and that's without even starting into voodoo like direct injection.
Even for dirt bikes... a 4 stroke will get MUCH better fuel economy then a 2 stroke putting around in the woods. But if both bikes are going WFO all day long, and make similar power, you won't see that dramatic a fuel consumption difference between the two... both will be something like 30 to 40 mpg. The difference is that the two stroke will be still getting 35 mpg even when you are driving it gently, where the 4 stroke will go up to 50mpg.
I spent quite a bit of time at OMC Research in Waukesha, WI. doing design work on their Direct Injection for two stroke (was called FICHT initially, prior to E-Tec) Johnson/Evinrude Outboards. The technology is solid and the results are pretty amazing. You can't compare the old two stroke engines of the '70's with modern DI two stroke motors. Four stroke fuel use numbers, extremely low oil consumption, light weight, compact and ultra hi-performance vs. four strokes. Still can't figure out why nobody is stepping up to use this technology in automotive and motorcycle applications. You guys quoting low mileage numbers and lots of smoke and oil use are clueless on modern two stroke engines.
I miss my RZ350. It was bored .40 over, with Boyesen reeds, Spec II pipes, 1 tooth shorter front sprocket, and a steering dampener. Talk about a ROCKET!!!
The kewlest thing about it was the YPVS- it basically quadrupled the powerband- YEEHAAA!!!
I would love to see a supercharged two stroke like those huge Diesel generator engines. The supercharger pushes the fresh air through and blows the exhaust out. The crank case is not used for induction so it can be lubed normally. I don't think the traditional setup was good for varying speeds but computers could remedy that I'll wager!
+1 Prowler. A direct injected 2 stroke does not need a fuel/oil mix! The whole reason for it was that the fuel came up through the crank case to go through intake ports on the side of the cylinder walls. While the fuel mixture is going through there, might as well add the oil for constant lubrication, as long as there is fuel supply. No fuel supply, and it wont run. Kill 2 birds with one stone. If the 2 stroke is DI, the crankcase oil can then be separated from the fuel, because the fuel is no longer drawn through the crankcase. Take out the intake ports on the cylinder walls. Position the exhaust port to be in the head, not in the cylinder casting, and with variable timing and injector pulses, and a little flow research, it would not be that hard to create a very efficient running 2 stroke. We used to run a race boat with an Evinrude XP300 V8 2 stroke outboard. It had 8 carbs, and we eventually bumped it to about 400hp. About the time we grenaded the engine, Mercury was just coming out with the new EFI 2 stroke v6 outboard that gave comparable power to the XP300 (in stock form), with 2/3 the weight and overall size. And that technological leap was done simply by using EFI on the two stroke. Modern DI 2 strokes no longer burn oil in the fuel mix. Theres no trail of smoke giving away your destination either.
We were working with Team Hansen when DuHamel, Nixon, Wilvert were racing for Team Hansen/Kawasaki.
When Yamaha TZs put Kawasaki H2R, KR750 out of the racing business (yes, a KAWI KR), there were about 40 H2R/KR750 frames still left. A few guys built KILLER cafe racers by taking their H2 street motor and shoe-horning into one of the Hansen frames. Had to switch the left and right side jugs (cylinder mounts were the same). This made the 3 pipes run BETWEEN the downtubes on the frame.
Pic is of Dave Crussel's restoration of Nixon's H2R - check the jugs and frame. It actually DID make a great cafe racer for a couple lucky souls with access to "special" frame sets:
Made the cover of Cycle News just after Nixon (Richard M - not Gary) dropped the National Speed Limit to 55. Kind of an article about "the death of cafe racing" if I recall.
STILL would like to put one together as my fantasy bike.
Love blue smoke two strokes.
The only way they could be made to work nowadays for the street would be with a painful amount of research and certification costs. We won't see it happen.
Hurley and I have stayed in touch since those days. He's very active in AHRMA and vintage - and off-road lobbying/rights in New Mexico.
1974 (IIRC) he was nearly on the pole at Daytona but seized the A bike and had to go for the B bike. Was fastest in qualifying until Ago brought out the TZ750... and the rest, as they say, is history.
Dave Crussel's H1R as he and Hurley currently race it in AHRMA
I have seen some stuff (if I say who or where, they will kill me )...lets just say a major "outboard motor company" that is/was 2 smoke that is/was mind blowing.
The coolest 2 smoke I can think of: Koenig racing outboard motor...opposed twin, rotary valve...makes in the 50hp range at around 13k rpm...a totally awesome sound as it skips the little 10ft hydroplane across the water at full song...I love the smell of burning castor....
If the 2 stroke is DI, the crankcase oil can then be separated from the fuel, because the fuel is no longer drawn through the crankcase. Take out the intake ports on the cylinder walls. Position the exhaust port to be in the head, not in the cylinder casting, and with variable timing and injector pulses, and a little flow research, it would not be that hard to create a very efficient running 2 stroke.
At that point you are losing the best attributes of the old 2 smokes. Simple, fewer parts, lighter weight, and low maintenance. I'm still not sure that you would ever get the efficiency of the 4 stroke either.
No....actually it was at a research facility in a little town called Lake Alfred...and I will say that the fastest I have ever been on water was in a tunnel hull boat with a 2 smoke V-8 on it
.and I will say that the fastest I have ever been on water was in a tunnel hull boat with a 2 smoke V-8 on it We used to race ours at Blarney Island, and up and down the Fox River with a group of fellas from the Chain 'o'Lakes area. Our XP300 V8 was on the back of a 22ft. Rapid Craft that(with the motor bumped to 400hp)gave us about 86-88mph out of the box. Winter came, and we cut up the hull, redid it, and got 96 mph in spring. When the motor blew (like an effin grenade) we traded the hull design to Rapid Craft for a 20 ft. Riot shell with our hull design on it. With the new Mercury EFI outboard (V6 2 stroke), they guaranteed 100+ OUT OF THE BOX! We wound up selling everything off and started to ride bikes. When the XP300 blew, that was a 30K hit............but.........a 2 sroke V8, driving a 33inch (pitch) prop, at 11k+ rpm, poopin out around 400 hp (carbed) was awwwwwwweeeeeesome. I may never do it again, but I've done it. Nice little cruise down memory lane.
I have a friend that dragraces an 18ft Mirage tunnel hull with a 3.0 bridgeport with nitrous....look for the yellow HOOTERS boat it is fast....but not as fast wide open as that 18 foot Shadow was...ok....the motor was an all out OMC Performance Group motor....it would barely idle...it loaded up...and took seemingly FOREVER to clear the plugs...then it would cavitate the prop....finagle the the trim, get it to bite and OH HOLY CRAP!!! It was radar gunned at 117...it didn't live long, but it was spectacular while it ran.
Like others have stated, comparing vintage 2smoke tech to what is available today is apples 'n oranges. But you'll never see the return of mass produced 2 stroke street rides IMHO. If even MX bikes have gone the way of 4 stroke with little ill effect due to the advances in tech, why would the larger bikes go the other way? Power to weight ratio is far more important in a 220 lbs bike that spends as much in the air as on terra firma I think.
Nothing like the sound of a properly tuned 2 smoker though..... That TZ vid was way Coooool. One of best friends back in the day had a RZ350, that bike was a riot.
I agree, the days of the 2-stroke motorcycles have come and gone! I mentioned on an earlier post that my friend had a 750cc 2-stroke Kawasaki. He was afraid of it and let me drag race it against a 900cc Kawasaki 4-stroke motorcycle. All I saw when racing was the 900 steadily pulling away from me and prior to running the bikes, I really thought the 750cc triple 2-stroke was the fastest motorcycle out there.
as much as I liked the 2-stroke motorcycles, I'll never own one again since I rode my first Buell.
Built for the track or the street I think Erik could build one Bad A$$ 2 stoker with one of these motors or a redesigned v twin version. I know that's not where he is at right now but who knows what a few years will bring.
)...lets just say a major "outboard motor company" that is/was 2 smoke that is/was mind blowing. 