| Author | Message | ||
     Redbuelljunkie |
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56 7376 It appears that MOTORRAD, a German motorcycle magazine, has done high speed testing at Italy's Nardo Ring (a banked, 7.8 mile high-speed test track) with a BMW S1000RR, MV Augusta F4, Kawasaki ZX10R, Suzuki GSX-R1000, Yamaha R1, Honda CBR1000RR, Aprilia RSV4, Ducati 1198S, and KTM RC8R. The results are quite interesting: BMW smoked them all with a top speed of 189.5 mph (305 kph), follwed by the MV 184.5 (297), Kawi 183.8 (295), Honda 179 (289), Aprilia 177 (285), Ducati 176 (284), and KTM 175 (282). There was no speed listed for the Suzuki and Yamaha in the link, but they stated the Kawi was the fastest Japanese bike, and the Honda the slowest. They also tested acceleration, roll-on and braking (see link for results). But I think the most interesting results of the test was this: The Aprilia RSV4 destroyed a crankshaft*,the GSXR 1000 put a whole in its crank-case by blowing a rod,the R1 blew a head-gasket,the MV F4 blew a tranny and the KTM burned a valve... Only BMW,Honda,Kawasaki and Ducati had no problems running full throttle on the Nardo Track! * post-recall bike Wow- it makes you stop and think about the kinds of stresses these engines are under while trying to live up to their performance claims. I searched for the original test results, but I cannot find MOTORRAD in anything other than German. I sure would like to read the entire article- that's a real eye-opener. (Message edited by redbuelljunkie on April 20, 2010) | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Wow! I wonder how long they sustained those speeds? I also wonder how long the tires would last! | ||
| P47b |
I am not finding the article any place on there. the GSXR 1000 put a whole in its crank-case by blowing a rod I am putting that in the BS dept. You have to move the red line for that to happen. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de& u=http://www.motorradonline.de/&ei=vtLNS6vGCYv29QT 60vG0Dw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0 CBIQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3DMOTORRAD%2Bmagazine% 26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive | ||
| Spatten1 |
Top speed tests on stock literbikes are meaningless. The 4 japanese companies agreed to a 300kph limit 10 years ago to keep regulators off their backs. The liter bikes all go faster than that with defeating of the electronic controls or gearing changes. The reason MV blew them all away a year or two ago is because it didn't limit top speed, not because it had more power. | ||
| Spatten1 |
PS, my guess is all of the 285ish numbers above are due to speedometer error, probably reading 300kph on the gauge and cutting out. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Whoa, did I insult someone's mother? I'm just passing along some info found on another forum. Great link, P47b- and if you click on Motorcycles and then Comparisons you'll see a couple of articles testing the bikes listed above. Track Test: 1000 Super-Athletes 1000-Super Ski Athletes in comparison All against one is indeed common, but common. And those who, like the BMW S 1000 RR breaks new ground and will stibizen a piece of cake Supersport, which was, no, must be well prepared. The first exchange of blows on the track come to all the thousands of Japanese and two Europeans against the Bavarian. Whether such a brilliant winner or howling misery leaves the ring shown here. In this article: KTM RC8 1190 R , Suzuki GSX-R 1000 , , Aprilia RSV4 R , BMW S 1000 RR , Yamaha YZF-R1 , Kawasaki ZX-10R and Comparison Test: Germany seeks the Superbike The long road to Nardo Its a long way to Nardo. The Supersport elite gathered on the way to ultimate challenge. Read the full article in issue 07/2010 Formerly perhaps much better? Let's say fifteen years ago. Who Schlagerfuzzi wanted to be trilled, then of course the Eurovision competition. And who is a super athlete wished worried, quite automatically the prospectuses of the four Japanese manufacturers. The question was: Could it be the 1000 Yamaha or even fatter GSX-R 1100th What are the advantages of light, radical 900-Fireblade? And what is the fairly tame 9-Kawasaki. That's it, because a sündteurer-Twin Ducati was not already in question. How times change! Today, the perplexed audience is faced with the incredible diversity of nine talented, terrific performance athletes. More than half of them come from Europe. Looks like the tests did occur, and when I have time I'll peruse the details. | ||
| Blake |
It's tough when illusions are shattered by reality. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Sorry, did not mean to be so blunt. I was working for one of the Big 4 in Government Relations in the late 90's. Press was getting really bad, so everyone agreed to limit top speeds to 300kph, or about 186mph. Even in the 90's the Japanese literbikes could go faster than that, but as speeds approached 200mph it was starting to attract negative attention. With speedo errors, the cut-outs will not all be at exactly 300kph. The bikes are all geared to maximize acceleration under that number, and they generally have electronic speed limiters. You can generally defeat the ECM and go faster on any of the Japanese literbikes. MV pulled a marketing coup with the "fastest top speed" recently, but it was not as meaningful as they would lead you to believe. Top speed tests on 600's are much more meaningful because they are limited by power and aerodynamics rather than the ECM. | ||
| Id073897 |
The Aprilia RSV4 destroyed a crankshaft*,the GSXR 1000 put a whole in its crank-case by blowing a rod,the R1 blew a head-gasket,the MV F4 blew a tranny and the KTM burned a valve... If only they had them warmed up 2 minutes in idle before ... nothing, NOTHING at all would have happened. | ||
| Malott442 |
I bet they ran laps with those bikes for those types of failures to occur.7.8 miles at top speed will cause more heat to build up than a sportbike is designed to dissipate. How long is the longest straight in MotoGP or WSB? | ||
| Ourdee |
I wish I could have rode one of them to destruction. Running over 180 till it ran out of gas or broke. Wander what the mpg on them was at that speed. | ||
| P47b |
I was at work when I found the link. The I.T. dept. doesn't like it when I start nosing around other countries web sights. I'm sure I will get a stay off the net notice tomorrow. I only had 10 min to dig for that sight. Post what you find. I'm interested in what made the bikes fail. But in whole I have to agree with Spatten1. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Motorcycle consumer news mentioned something about the V4 engines being flawed and a small number of them were recalled for an engine swap. Here it is: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls /recallsummary.cfm?rcl_campaign_id=10V029000&prod_ id=825832&moduletype=VEHICLE&make=APRILLA&model=RS V4&veh_model_year=2010&searchtype=DrillDown So if a magazine got one, it was probably early on in the production so more likely to get this timebomb. I think it was listed as a very small number of units like 200. | ||
| Spatten1 |
I wish I could have rode one of them to destruction. Running over 180 till it ran out of gas or broke. I got to buy the ZX-11 that MCN blew up in top-speed testing in 1996 or so. The real deal was that the other mags had wheelied it so much that the sump ran dry and damaged the crank bearings. The engine was destroyed somewhere north of 170 mph on WFO run. I'm not sure if the rear locked up or not, but it was a bad deal. I put a Muzzy ZX-11 race car engine in the chassis and had a great bike put together really cheaply. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
yeah im thinking that riding WFO to powertrain failure would be a horrible day. those speeds i shudder to think of the reaction times available and if there was anything you could actually do in a situation like a tranny failure | ||
| Squidbiker |
so everyone agreed to limit top speeds to 300kph, or about 186mph. No manufacturer has ever agreed to a top speed limit. Hayabusa's were limited to 300kph. Blackbirds and ZX12's followed. All nothing more than token gestures to bureaucratic ramblings. Certainly no superbike has ever been speed restricted. MV pulled a marketing coup with the "fastest top speed" recently, but it was not as meaningful as they would lead you to believe. Not so. First generation F4 1000's used a Formula 1 style Torque Shift System, or variable length intake trumpets if you don't know. The result was the F4 1000 taking highest top speed numbers by way of technical merit and not because of any speed restriction, self imposed or otherwise, by rival manufacturers. Which is why many publications the world over raved about the MV's performance. Genuinely deserved, and before HD got their grubby hands on the company. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Squidbiker, you are trolling. | ||
| Fast1075 |
The speed limiting thing kills me...lol...so what? is a 184mph crash supposed to be more survivable than a 205mph crash?? I saw the aftermath of when some guy stuffed a bike into the side of a truck at "only" 175....he went to the morgue in baggies. I don't know about right now...but gen I Busas and ZX12s were rev limited in high gear...I know someone that made a fortune in aftermarket electronics to skirt those. Don't know about the Blackbird...maybe ask Kent Stortz who rode the world's quickest Blackbird..and it was the world's quickest streetbike for quite some time. | ||
| Buellfan |
There is no doubt that Nardo is a brutal test track. With help from BRP we used data from Nardo in our full vehicle durability testing in Arizona for the 1125. There were originally 5 specific Nardo sequences to run but 3 of the 5 were so similar to what we already did that we only incorporated Nardo 1 and Nardo 2 as part of our every-day durability testing and kept the rest of what we already had developed for the XB. I was the first person to run the full Nardo test sequence and try to make it fit at the APG track. I did this on a very early prototype 1125R. I don't think I have ever put so much stress into an engine in such a short time. Let me tell you, when your on a fresh prototype and your doing a test like that for the first time on an unproven bike, your fingers never stray from the clutch lever and you must be mentally ready for anything at all times. 2 1/2 hours of that and I was beat! The bike was ready for more after a tire change but we had reams of data to go through. | ||
| Swordsman |
Squidbiker, you are trolling. If countering a statement is now considered trolling, we should just go ahead and close down the Quickboard, 'cuz there's not much else here. He may be mistaken, but I don't think that sounded much like actual trolling. Since there doesn't seem to be any hard facts referenced from either side, I'd say you guys are on equal footing. ~SM (Message edited by Swordsman on April 21, 2010) | ||
| Spike |
I'd like to see data to back that up. Through most of the '90s the ZX-11 was the top speed king at ~174mph. The CBR1100XX dethroned it in 1997 with 176mph. Both bikes were unrestricted. The 1999 Hayabusa was the first bike to outrun those two and it went 194mph. The Hayabusa was restricted to 186mph in 2000. Prior to the Hayabusa, no production Japanese bikes were even reaching 180mph. We're also blurring the distinction between bikes like the Hayabusa and a GSX-R1000 by calling them all literbikes. The '90s equivalent to a ZX-10R or a CBR1000RR would be the ZX-9R or a CBR900RR. Those 'literbikes' were lighter and handled better than a ZX-11 or a CBR1100XX, but they couldn't match the 170+mph speeds. | ||
| Firemanjim |
I thought it was a "gentlemans" agreement with big 4 because EU threatened them if they did not limit speeds after Hayabusa went nearly 200mph out of the box. And just got a new tuning software to use on the Busas, can go into stock ecm and change all sorts of things--one being the electronic "limit", also changed the timing maps as the 6th gear one and the first couple down low are all dialed back to tame the bike. Cannot wait to test it out for the customer---oh, and installed a dry nitrous 50 shot!! | ||
| Fast1075 |
Woo Hooo Jim!...i'm betting 219... | ||
| Blake |
Well said Spike. | ||
| Hootowl |
I seem to remember reading about those voluntary restrictions in the early 90s in order to head off legislation too. Rider magazine did a piece on it. | ||
| Ourdee |
I want to ride a bike past 200 and back. | ||
| Pwnzor |
171 was fast enough for me. I got bugs in my eyes, my shorts filled up with air and I lost one of my flip flops. | ||
| 12x9sl |
Pwnzor...  | ||
| Ezblast |
"I wish I could have rode one of them to destruction. Running over 180 till it ran out of gas or broke. I got to buy the ZX-11 that MCN blew up in top-speed testing in 1996 or so. The real deal was that the other mags had wheelied it so much that the sump ran dry and damaged the crank bearings. The engine was destroyed somewhere north of 170 mph on WFO run. I'm not sure if the rear locked up or not, but it was a bad deal. I put a Muzzy ZX-11 race car engine in the chassis and had a great bike put together really cheaply." Spatten1 - that is so cool - I'd love to read something about that build - sounds cool! EZ | ||
| Aesquire |
As I recall...Germany put a 100hp limit on bikes in the mid-late '80's, probably because the Mercedes drivers were jealous of getting passed by Katana's and such. Idiot safety rules were in vogue at the time. Remember Joan Claybrook's idiot 85mph speedo law? A total joke on a litre bike, and speedo doubler gearing gadgets were advertised. I often had no clue how fast I was on my bike. Shortly after, the big 4 lobbied Germany to dump the law if they kept the top speeds down. Never a "law"..... more a gentlemen's agreement. Now if the magic # was 300kph, any bike built before the "agreement" or not capable stock of that speed wouldn't have a limiter of any kind. Why bother? Rev limiters weren't even a normal thing back in the 80's & 90's, I never had one 'till I got my Cyclone. I admit, I missed a whole generation of race replica style bikes in the '90's since I was running a retro XS750 triple or GS1100E for most of it... but the top speed limitation was mentioned a lot in the Cycle mags. The artificial limit, plus the lack of good places to safely do top speed testing meant that top speed was de-emphasized in marketing & test articles, and 1/4 mile times, and later, track comparo's became the paradigm. As I recall  | ||
| Finmars |
I have heard Honda CB900F's sold in Germany, "allegedly", had a restriction in the silencers that mysteriously disappeared during the bikes first service. |
