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Aesquire
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 07:12 am: | 
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It is all about power. It is always about power. Some people feel very afraid and insecure because they think their power is being threatened...
I agree.
I doubt these nuts are part of a govt. conspiracy. Really doubt. Just like the 9/11 "truthers" who believe that George Bush planted explosives in the twin towers to create a climate of fear so he could impose a right wing religious dictatorship..... Not only did it not happen, there is no way such a conspiracy could stay secret, no matter what you believe about the Illuminati, Trilateral commission, etc.
I also doubt that the current admin. deliberately makes the economy worse to sustain a crisis ( too good to waste ) to get their agenda through. That would be a tad....paranoid.
If the results are the same, it's usually better to assume incompetence than evil intent.
The idea that a super rich communist who makes his money destroying nations currencies would be a major political force in Amerika and pay for/run multiple leftist web sights dedicated to advancing his agenda, lying about the leftists political enemies, and supporting the current Prez. is also ridiculous, except that one is true.
How the heck do you turn the coverage of a lunatic fringe into a political debate???
ask CNN. |
Ourdee
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 08:18 am: |
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If not dichotomies, doesn't it just dilute the message? |
Sifo
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 09:34 am: |
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How the heck do you turn the coverage of a lunatic fringe into a political debate???
For a year or so now we have heard from our government and media about the dangers of the right wing fringe, often labeled the "Christian right". During that time virtually every lunatic action has been committed by someone with ties to the left, but the media still tries to make the connection to the right.
We now have a new event where every single media story labels them as a "Christian Militia Group". This wouldn't be notable if for instance the Fort Hood shooter was labeled a "Muslim fanatic" in every story, but his faith was hard to find in any story despite being central to his actions.
Take a good look at what they are accused of. They were targeting a cop and then targeting more cops as secondary targets. Why cops? Most probably because that would be the only group that an insider from law enforcement could possibly encourage this group to target without huge liabilities if anything went wrong (or even if nothing went wrong). As has already been discussed it make little sense for an anti-government group to target police as the primary target.
Here's a few interesting facts that are known.
1) There was an agent working undercover within the group.
2) The agent joined the group as the explosives expert.
3) The only illegal weapons that I've heard of the group possessing were explosives.
4) The attacks that were being "planned" were based on use of explosives.
5) Despite being well armed everyone was taken without a single shot being fired, or even an armed standoff.
It just seems too likely that the entire conspiracy against the LEOs was engineered and promoted by the agent.
Add to all of this you in your original post call them terrorists. The whole point of terrorism is political change. How are you now surprised that political discussion comes from this.  |
Dbird29
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 10:28 am: |
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These folks send out magazines and special reports to TV & print newsrooms.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence -report
When you wonder how something looks scripted in the MSM reporting it is because organizations such as Southern Poverty Law Center have taken the time, effort and money to send the script to those who write the stories. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 10:52 am: |
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Southern Poverty Law Center. Wow, they don't even pretend to not target the right. |
Kenm123t
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 11:13 am: |
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Whatever didnt you notsee in the report the Government informant was the explosives expert. That bunch of yahoos was picked becuase they could be set up. The progressives screwed up big time and NOV is Coming and so is 2012. Liberals Progessives are in love with being a victim. If the don't have a boogey man they will invent on a non victim liberal is powerless.
We do not need to do any thing to Liberal Progressives but laugh at them. In the end they are not builders but are destroyers.
Just rememember liberals and progressive are like cancer they eat away at thier host till they are treated or they kill the host either way the end is the same.
In any event the scourge of liberal progressivism always end in collapse.
Sad part is when they know the end is near in the peoples mind they turn to violence as Mao stated. Or try to incite violence.
The root of the problem is sin some men want the power of God. Eve wanted that power it was how Satan convinced Eve to eat the apple. The same problem exists with liberals its why they hate and scorn Christians.
The Test with health care to see how evil the bill really is very simple. One is every thing in it right and proper with the Constitution does it do more harm than good. Decievers always hide evil in the guise of doing good. If you do just these little things ( evil) you will get all these good things. Good never comes from evil. Good can be tricked if not very careful. |
Whatever
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 12:04 pm: |
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The statements made while I was sleeping really do not make any sense to me. That is my original point. I probably didn't really make that clear as I was posting after 1 AM.
I am reading a lot these days about fringe cults in America and good old fashioned home grown terrorists. I don't understand using these completely lunatic people to further a political discussion on conservatism and liberalism in America.
Was the Unibomber on the left or right? Neither.
Was Timothy McVeigh on the left or right? Not entirely sure as I have not studied him yet, but I would guess neither.
Was Lee Harvey Oswald or John Wilkes Booth? Not too sure but I don't think either.
Hutaree Militia... left or right? I think there is not enough information on them quite yet, but I would guess neither.
How about the Fundamentalist Mormon separatists that have incest with thier 14 year old girls and call it the decree of God? Niether.
How about the Scientologists? Ummm... I don't think they are left or right they are in Outer Space.
Is Lady Gaga an Illuminati? Maybe... but I do not know if she is a Republican or Democrat. I would guess she is niether.
Madonna?
Ok, whatever, I think you get my point.
I just don't understand how you can take the example of lunatic fringe... and then draw conclusions on maintstream political thought. That was the only point I am trying to make.
Am I a Republican or Democrat? Not really. Am I a communist or a "Patriot"? Nope. Am I educated? By my standards, but maybe not the most educated person in the world.
I don't think this case is black or white. It is a lesser shade of grey. I also think that FBI- LEO force learned a thing or two since Waco. Apparently the people arrested thought they were going to a memorial service (and somehow firearms were not allowed) and that is how they were all herded up without anyone getting hurt.
Be intersting to see what Court would say about this one... hint hint... |
Sifo
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 12:20 pm: |
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Apparently the people arrested thought they were going to a memorial service (and somehow firearms were not allowed) and that is how they were all herded up without anyone getting hurt.
As usual you are incredibly misinformed. The memorial service was going to be used for a second attack. Given that the first attack never happened, there was no memorial service. They were all taken without anyone getting hurt simply because they didn't fight back when law enforcement officers broke into their houses they didn't fight back. |
Whatever
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 12:31 pm: |
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/04/01/fbi-ruse-crea ted-arrest-militia-suspects/
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/04/02/FBI-ruse -used-to-arrest-militia-members/UPI-86361270213960 /
http://www.fox8.com/news/sns-bc-mi--fbiraids-inves tigation,0,1716908.story
I guess all these sources are incredibly mis-informed too??? |
Sifo
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 12:50 pm: |
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My apologies. I hadn't seen that 5 of them were caught that way. As was pointed out in the first article, other gave up peacefully.
As for if they are left or right, do you think there is a connection between the often used phrase "Christian right" and the fact that they keep calling this group a "Christian militia"? Seems clear to me that it hasn't been normal to associate criminals to religious groups in the recent past. For some reason this group can't just be called a militia group. The media is playing with words in a very strange way. |
Whatever
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 02:07 pm: |
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I looked at their (Hutu-fubar) website and indeed they themselves are claiming to be a Christian group... fighting to protect Jesus in the end times... but, they are just a bunch of twisted idiots trying to use religion to further their purposes...
I don't know how long before the FBI takes down the Hutu-fubar website... but it seems like a lot of meaningless rambling just like the Unabomber did...
A carefully constructed and espoused delusional system of beliefs created specifically to promote an extreme fringe agenda... a big excuse to dress up and play gorilla (guerilla sp?)warfare... I think they should have stuck to paintball myself...
And come on now... what the hell is that music on their video... Motorhead or Queensryche or something? Next thing you know their defense will be to blame in on heavy metal music or their parents...
Really no different than any other terrorist group.
Apology accepted btw.
(Message edited by Whatever on April 03, 2010) |
Gregtonn
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 02:48 pm: |
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"... I did not want all the militia type wing nuts on here to start PM'ing me... I feel so naked now..." 
Who might they "all" be?
G |
Sifo
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 02:52 pm: |
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No doubt that they called themselves a Christian group. But many terrorists that call themselves Muslims don't get that association in virtually every news report and press conference from the authorities like is being done with this group. It seems there is a big double standard going on here.
I'm not at all convinced that "terrorist group" accurately describes this group. Terrorism is associated with trying to effect political change. I think the group may have just had a grudge against the Feds relating to an earlier investigation by the ATF.
http://www.detnews.com/article/20100401/METRO/4010 413
quote:Federal authorities became interested in the Hutaree in 2008 while the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives was investigating a local gun dealer.
Once the Hutaree became aware of the ATF probe, Joshua Clough and David Stone Sr. posted incendiary messages on militia Web sites and in e-mails, authorities said. Clough said he was "ready to go to war" over the investigation, Waterstreet said. He quoted a Stone e-mail: "OK, here we go. Looks like the ATF enforcers are looking for a reason to start a firefight. And we will answer the call."
I'm certainly not defending any plans to kill cops, but it seems like this group and the Feds have been escalating this for a few years now.
I also read the indictment against the group. Much of it seems pretty weak against most of the group. Sounds like the big charge against most of them is carrying weapons while committing a crime. The crime being committed was attending militia training where the leader was spouting off about getting the Feds. I have no doubt that these people are pawns that will be offered plea deals if they testify against the leader.
I still think this will be a very interesting case to see how the Feds handled themselves. |
Whatever
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 02:54 pm: |
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Greg... you must not know me... sarcasm intended... |
Whatever
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 02:57 pm: |
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I am always up for a good laugh by the way... the only reason I am on badweb is for entertainment purposes... |
Gregtonn
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 03:40 pm: |
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No Charlotte, I don't know you. But when I think of liberal women some of the first that come to mind are Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton and Rosey O'Donnell.
And naked?...
I'm always up for a good laugh too, but its not the only reason to I'm on Badweb.
You should set aside your preconceptions and biases and you might be educated as well as entertained.
G  |
Hardcorps
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 03:40 pm: |
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I didn't read half the post on here, but this is a lot closer to home than you think. I am a police officer in a not to far neighboring city. I know several police officers in the city where the initial attack was going to be, had it been successful I would probably been at the funeral. Just food for thought this stuff was very real for me and my coworkers. |
Whatever
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 07:20 pm: |
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Brad,
Glad you are ok. What was it 30 miles from your jurisdiction? I was thinking of giving you a call... |
Whatever
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 07:29 pm: |
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G... btw...
using Rosie O'Donnell, Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi to compare me to makes me want to puke... esp HC!!! |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 07:35 pm: |
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let me see if I can answer a few of Whatever's questions about political leanings amongst fruitloops.
Unibomber - radical environut. Leftist, usually, but this guys....well, I never read his manifesto. Marx's I've read, not the unibombers.
Timothy McVeigh - have to call "right" on that one. he was angry about the BATF massacre in Waco and other places. I don't blame him for being angry. The BATF committed murder most foul at Waco, with a camera crew, ( but no ambulance ) to get more money out of congress. Then lied a lot. Even so, no excuse for timmy to commit mass murder in return. Period. No excuse. ( And no one defended his actions that I know of, and many regret the effect his actions had on getting justice for waco. )
Lee Harvey Oswald - ex marine ( one of the few that "ex" applies to ) defector, communist, KGB wannabe, wannabe evil James Bond. Leftist. ( even the KGB thought he was nuts, and not in a useful way )
John Wilkes Booth - democrat. Southern loyalist. He predates the left/right thing, that started around the turn of the 19th-20th century.
Hutaree Militia - beats me, I'm with you. Like I said, I doubt it's a Reichstag Fire deal...... maybe we'll find out someday.
Fundamentalist Mormon separatists - that's so "conservative" left/right doesn't apply.
How about we agree they're A$$holes? I'm a 'libber. I have no problem with polygamy. Why shouldn't a woman have 2 husbands? The patriarchal polygamists (child rapist type) don't get any sympathy from me.
Scientologists - you've got it! See the South park episode, it's probably the most accurate portrayal you'll get.
Lady Gaga an Illuminati? No idea. I thought she was a diva? haven't heard her stuff.
Madonna? way left cult joiner. way, way left. ( if you belong to the fringe sect she's "joined" you'd agree .... happens to joiners like her. It might be a religion to them, to her it's a Cult. ) Then again, if it brings you comfort, and it harms none.... have fun!
you have one thing absolutely right. Crazy is non partisan.
This thing with the hootaree guys seems wrong somehow. It's not the usual crazy militia thing. The groups that target police are so seldom "right" that this is suspicious.
Barack H. Obama's former babysitter & partner in dispensing funds not their own for "charity" causes was a cop killer. So was his wife. ( that's not speculation, they have no remorse and only wished they'd murdered more.... they said so ) Not right wing, eh?
Now I could see a deranged pro-constitution militia wannabe type target Congress, or IRS, or BATF, but local police? Not the pattern. Somethings really off here.
The media is pounding away with the sly imprecation that this is just tea-party to come. That part IS political. That's what I have issues with. |
Whatever
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 07:45 pm: |
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What is this about 30 threatening letters delivered to governors if they don't "stand down", including Doyle in Wisconsin? I know I sound a little coo-coo myself... sorry... I stayed up way too late last night and now I am too exhausted to go out tonight... |
Whatever
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 07:46 pm: |
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kuko coo coo or cu cu kuo kuo??? |
Ourdee
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 08:08 pm: |
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coo cuck a choo |
Sifo
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 08:20 pm: |
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What is this about 30 threatening letters delivered to governors if they don't "stand down", including Doyle in Wisconsin? I know I sound a little coo-coo myself... sorry... I stayed up way too late last night and now I am too exhausted to go out tonight...
The FBI knows who did this and is not calling this a threat. They are claiming concern that this may incite violence from other groups though. The Federal government is starting to sound a bit paranoid to me. I have no idea about their political affiliations, but if someone wants to try to figure them out here's their web site... http://gotfr.com/front-page.html |
Glitch
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 08:54 pm: |
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Aesquire
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 11:41 pm: |
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What a guy!
I'm guessing a 42 year old in his parents basement. Let's see. ( reads manifesto )
Yep. I stick with my first impression.
Crazier than I am. 
I don't see how you get a divine right to drive on taxpayer built roads?
I reserve the right to bitch about toll roads like the NYS Thruway where the "deal" was to pay for it with tolls, then make it toll free. But I won't. We got frost damage, so what the heck. You gotta keep roads maintained, and it's tolls or taxes, no other choice.
Seems to be an anti corporate loon. He may even have points, but really?
Puerto Rican Tax thingees?
In his Underwear. Bet ya. |
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