| Author | Message | ||
     Nukeblue |
ok this is scary, a bill just introduced my our beloved john mccain would enable the gov to detain citizens without charge, miranda rights, a lawyer, indefinately. and our tea-partier scott brown jumped on board. http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s3081/show | ||
| Drkside79 |
Nice. Sounds lovely. lol and they accuse the Dems of trying to turn this joint into Mother Russia. lol | ||
| Hex |
Nice. I'm glad I voted for the socialist instead of the fascist! | ||
| Hex |
Nukeblue, you profile pic rocks.  | ||
| Swampy |
Belligerant? My gosh that could mean anything, expecailly if someone got pissed off enough to tell the truth. Like calling the TSA what it is, or calling lawyers Pettifoggers sworn to the same "Bar" that the prosecutors and judges are, upholding their own interests above those of their clients that they are supposed to re-present? (Message edited by swampy on March 11, 2010) | ||
| Milt |
How ironic. | ||
| Strokizator |
I couldn't much many details but it sounds as if they are trying to stop the justice dept from giving Miranda rights to captured terrorists and let soldiers, etc. do their jobs. If it were truly a bill to deny the average citizen his 5th amendment rights, it wouldn't even get out of committee. If you've got anything else please share. | ||
| Swordsman |
I'm a doofus... I can't navigate that site. Where does it give the specifics? Not that i doubt the possibility, but I'd like to see how it's written to allow it's use against just anyone. All I see on that site are a bunch of comments. ~SM | ||
| Milt |
With a little luck, this bill will never make it out of committee. This is probably an attempt by McCain to shore up his right flank in the next primary - tough on terrorism, no silly technicalities like habeas corpus. This will undoubtedly impress some primary voters who use the words "freedom" and "liberty" out of habit rather than conviction. I haven't been able to find the full text of this bill. An excerpt:
(Italics mine.) If this isn't a frontal assault on our civil liberties nothing is. I think this is something that true conservatives and liberals can agree on. | ||
| Milt |
Here's the text of the bill: Click here... | ||
| Hex |
'Uh, Milt, were going to have to take you in for questioning....' | ||
| Hex |
I guess flag burning is out. | ||
| F_skinner |
It is about damn time. UNPRIVILEGED ENEMY BELLIGERENT.— The term ‘‘unprivileged enemy belligerent’’ means an individual (other than a privileged belligerent) who— (A) has engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners; (B) has purposely and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners; or was a part of al Qaeda at the time of capture. | ||
| Nukeblue |
i'm sure the intentions are meant well just like the patriot act, "if it gets into the wrong hands" though it's trouble. hex thanks, mid-ohio turn one  | ||
| Hex |
SEC. 5. DETENTION WITHOUT TRIAL OF UNPRIVILEGED ENEMY BELLIGERENTS. An individual, including a citizen of the United States, determined to be an unprivileged enemy belligerent under section 3(c)(2) in a manner which satisfies Article 5 of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War may be detained without criminal charges and without trial for the duration of hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners in which the individual has engaged, or which the individual has purposely and materially supported, consistent with the law of war and any authorization for the use of military force provided by Congress pertaining to such hostilities. Welcome to 1984. At what point do we become unprivileged citizens? at which protest rally? A case could be made against all of congress for whittling away our inalienable rights. (edit typos) (Message edited by hex on March 11, 2010) | ||
| Hootowl |
There are American citizens in al qaeda. I agree with the idea, but there's no way to keep this from being abused once it becomes law. "Other matters as the President considers appropriate" could be anything. Refine the language, then I'll not consider you a failure in your sworn duty to uphold and defend the Constitution. | ||
| Hootowl |
By the way, the miranda warnings are NOT in the Constitution. | ||
| Swampy |
When will the Bill go from Un-priviliged to Priviliged because the Bill doesn't do what it is supposed to because some Pettifogging idiot brings up some irrelevent point while he is re-presenting an enemy combatant? This is obviously an attempt to assure that enemy combatants that are tried on American soil, thus being "priviliged" by having constitutional rights endowed on them, from having such rights extended to them while they are being tried on American soil. That is the problem with trying enemy combatants in America. Uphold the Constitution, close the borders, make "All them" go through the same thing that we had to to become us. I don't care if she squirts one out while she is here, send them all back until they fill out the paperwork and learn to speak engrish. I have my great grand parents naturalization papers. | ||
| Drkside79 |
learn to speak engrish No National Language bro. (Message edited by drkside79 on March 11, 2010) | ||
| Swampy |
"By the way, the miranda warnings are NOT in the Constitution." That is true, but there are things in the Constitution that are stronger and more powerful than the miranda warning. We are what we agree to.... Alot of it is unacceptable to the pettifoggers and removes thier assumed authority over the American being. | ||
| Swampy |
They got off the boat with a little Irish baroke.... | ||
| Cityxslicker |
this is what happens when you want to apply the American Legal system to an international issue/ military tribunal. These radical f*cks never should be miranda'd, never be imprisoned on US soil, or fed through the US Justice system. So now that 'enemy combatants' are now afforded rights under the constitution, you have to be able to question them with in that framework. Because you cant use the military schematic that was working before. Its an attempt to get any information out of these leeches before they lawyer up and get their 5th amendment rights protection; which never should have been granted to them before. Your way out of this, ... kill them on the spot; in accordance with the Geneva Convention; spies, terrorists, sabateurs, pirates _ dead on spot by execution. Cuts the recivitism rate too. | ||
| Medicbro |
I wish that you were right, City, but three soldiers were sentenced earlier this year for killing rather than detaining. This bill is trying to fix the situation by letting us keep those dogs behind bars when we capture them. | ||
| Hex |
Found an article: http://www.naplesnews.com/blogs/observation_post/2 010/mar/09/mccainbillentry/ | ||
| Aesquire |
Hex, I think you got one thing wrong. You voted for the fascist, not the socialist. ( It's a small distinction between leftists, I admit, I'm not going to make a big deal of it, heck, we don't know yet, it may be both. ) I may agree with you on the 1984 analogy. We DO need intelligent law on enemy combatants who refuse to wear a uniform and hide behind children & other civilians. Under the mish-mosh we now have, it is far smarter to kill them than capture them, and have them become pawns in the political games played by the scumbag like of A-G Holder. There are other scum lawyers & politicians out there, but Holder has evoked my ire for his handling of terrorist suspects. His law firm has represented terrorists, he has, himself, destroyed any chance of KSM having a fair trial, by making prejudicial statements, and further, has publicly stated that even if found innocent, he is going to punish KSM & buds anyway. That's not justice, law enforcement, defense, or any moral standard...at all. So we need good law. I'm really doubting this is it. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I believe something other than Mirandizing foreign enemies needs to be done. As usual, McCain has all the legal deftness of a drunken rhino. ANY law that allows for the prosecution of American citizens as anything other than American citizens is repugnant and unconstitutional. Prosecution of foreign enemies as American citizens is repugnant as well. The sooner McCain is defeated in his own state, the better. This guys got a head full of bad wiring. On face value, I don't like this bill, and I'd place money on it never seeing the light of day. My guess is that McCain believes this is red meat for the Republican base. Wrong. | ||
| Pammy |
Timothy McVeigh. | ||
| Pammy |
Theodore Kaczynski. | ||
| Pammy |
John Muhammed and Lee Boyd Malvo | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Yep, and TM was arrested, tried, convicted, and executed as a US citizen. He died with additional information regarding possible co-conspirators. We didn't get to water board him. We probably would have been able to learn that information. |
