| Author | Message | ||
     Court |
>>>The government only seems to be competent in building interstate highways and a badass military. Everything else is bureaucratic bungling and ineptitude. The understatement of the decade. I just watched the Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee (you know, the guy in charge of the IRS) say he didn't realize that taking huge gifts from corporations was "income". Somewhere . . . and I'm not sure . . . these guys lie between idiots and liars. You are paying these folks a TON of money. . . one single term and you are fixed for life. An Obama thought that closing with a threat yesterday would intimidate who? | ||
| Sifo |
An Obama thought that closing with a threat yesterday would intimidate who? I've been trying to figure out what BO was thinking with that threat. Closing with (and this is paraphrased) if we can't work this out, that's what elections are for. Did he notice what just happened in MA electing Scott Brown? He's about get his butt pulled down over his head! | ||
| Strokizator |
}The government only seems to be competent in building interstate highways Yeah, but they subcontract that out to private enterprise. The gov't handles the purchasing of the right-of-ways. | ||
| Sifo |
Yeah, but they subcontract that out to private enterprise. The gov't handles the purchasing of the right-of-ways. Around here it's subcontracted out to private enterprise that contribute to the right political campaigns. They barely even try to hide that fact. | ||
| Hmartin |
I'm a Johnny-come-lately to this discussion, but if I may interject, when talking about the public good, the difference between the public takeover of health care and taxing for public works is that treating water or building roads is not a profession requiring anywhere near the amount of knowledge as being a doctor. Taking a professional out of the (not so) free market and telling them what they can and cannot earn for their profession is the problem. We're proposing to take doctors and treat them like public school teachers. Most public school teachers like their work and love their kids, but how many are happy with their pay? How many people leave teaching to go make some real money (answer - more than a few), or how many never get into it because they can make twice the money for the same education elsewhere (like me)? Unlike doctors, is there any financial incentive in place for a teacher to outperform others and be the best in their field? When offered a job by a private school, would a teacher turn it down for a job in the public school system? How are school taxes in your city? Most people would say they're quite high, and yet our schools don't even have books for the library (my son's school, as a matter of fact). Ever hear a school superintendent say they have enough teachers, enough school equipment, or enough anything? On another note, if public water distribution was better than it is now, i.e. if you received adequate service for your taxes, would bottling companies be able to charge what they do for bottled water and still have us lining up to buy it? If the USPS was a more efficient organization, then would companies like FedEx, with a more expensive service and no government backing, be able to compete against them? You might say that the fact that these companies are able to compete against government-run agencies is an example of why a "government option" would not kill private insurance companies, but my point is, if these other products and services can not only survive but thrive while competing against government provided or subsidized services, then how likely is it that government-run health care would buck the track record of the USPS and other government-run agencies and fully meet the needs of the public? We're already spending a ton of money on these other government agencies, aren't we? Alternatively, what would happen if we opened the health care market instead? Are we brave enough to consider that? (I'm not trying to prolong this debate, but all these question marks are just inviting rebuttals, aren't they?) (Dang it, there I go again!) | ||
| Reindog |
Sifo, Yes, CA has an automated system that has broken down. Application for UI was efficient and timely. However, I have exhausted my first extension benefits and have received notice that I am automatically eligible for a second extension where no action is required on my part. However, no checks, claim forms, nor notification have been received in five weeks. Anyone who lives paycheck to paycheck will be in deep doodoo in CA. I read something a while back that CA's software is messed up for UI. If my case is not an isolated incident, then I expect the inability of CA to administer UI to make the national news eventually. | ||
| Sifo |
Could just be that CA can't afford to write the checks. Seems that has been in the news. Hope things work out for you soon. | ||
| Reindog |
Actually, life is good. Real good. I just landed a chip design job with Broadcom and I start on the 15th. 13 months out on the street at the age of 56 is typically NOT a good sign for future employment. I guess Buell people are blessed. | ||
| Sifo |
Hmartin, Private schools do better than public schools and they do it will less money. The problem is that even if your kids go to a private school (or if you don't have kids) you still have to pay for the public schools. Not a great model for health care IMHO. The Post Office is protected by law from private competition. Ever notice there are no private letter carriers? Again not a great model for health care IMHO. Public water works? I have no choice. I can't put in a well. In areas that get annexed by a town they are force to pay thousands and be put on public water when they have a perfectly usable private system. I tend to agree with that in this case being a public utility, BUT again, not a great model for health care IMHO. | ||
| Sifo |
Great to hear Reindog! | ||
| Sifo |
I just got an email with the following about the Canadian politician that just got a south of the border ticker tune up. Very interesting about the difference in procedures...
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| Blake |
Idiot! Doesn't he understand that his "femur bone" is his "femur bone"? Why's he paying for a more advanced treatment? But seriously, you left out the part where he'll be looking for whatever reimbursement he can get from CanadaCare. | ||
| Conchop |
Canada still ranks higher according to W.H.O. France is still #1 according to W.H.O. Some of our citizens fly to India for cheaper medical procedures. One thing is for sure: our system has become a burden to society. Trying to fix it with more of the same doesn't sound too smart. | ||
| Reepicheep |
What about the other side of the coin? Say I worked my way through college, instead of going into debt. Say that I am driving a klunker instead of the Porsche. Say I rented an extra few years so I could put a bigger downpayment, and got a smaller house to get a lower monthly payment. Say I stayed and worked while everyone else went home so I am more valuable to my employer. Doing all that allowed me to buy insurance, in case I break my femur. Say "the other guy" took a job right out of high school so he could buy a cool car and the hot chicks instead of trying to go to college. Say he ran up $10,000 of consumer debt on shiny things. Say he got as much house as the bank would let him with 0 down and a .5% adjustable rate loan. Say he does the absolute minimum he thinks he can get away with at work. Instead of spending his money on insurance, he buys a big screen television, keeps a boat, and leases a big shiny new truck. So he gets drug into the emergency room with his broken femur, and he says says "go take money from Bill, who by the way already paid for his own insurance, and take it at gunpoint if necessary, and use that money to pay for fixing my femur". Then he limps on home to sit in front of his big screen for 3 months because "it just hurts too much to work, sorry". Meanwhile, Bill continues to show up at work every day provided the bleeding doesn't appear to be arterial. Believe me, I am NOT saying everyone that can't afford insurance is financially irresponsible. Stuff happens, it has happened to me before, and it will happen to me again. But I am also saying that a some of the people that everyone would be forced to support would have things the supporters are forced to forgo. If I don't have to support them, it's none of my business. If I do have to support them, then shouldn't I be able to force how they live their lives? What they can eat? How much they exercise? What other luxuries they have? How many kids they can have? Force them into labor? Forbid them to have a car or ride a motorcycle? All of that is absolutely unthinkable to me... which is why I am against it. So I am also against forced redistribution. There is no way to ever do it fairly... and the further it is done from me the less fair it gets. When I give money, it is done pretty well. When Washington gives my money, it does so steeped in greed, corruption, and inefficiency. Interestingly, if I could choose to give it away freely, out of love, then all those conflicts go away. But if the government starts by confiscating 40% of my income, I have a LOT less to give wisely. Being poor is dammed dangerous, for a lot of different reasons. Poor medical care is just one risk of many. | ||
| Liquorwhere |
One thing is for sure: our system has become a burden to society. Trying to fix it with more of the same doesn't sound too smart How has our health care system become a burden on society? What is proposed by obama and his ilk will be the burden on society, frequent fliers (drug seekers) that abuse the emergency room are a burden on society now, but of course there is no access to care here right? I have never, with or without insurance been denied care in the United States. Ever. I have had to pay some bills off that were accumulated from a saw blade that redesigned my thumb and a few ill advised "jumps" on the dirt bike when I was younger, but never was I denied care. Never was I harassed or had to declare bankruptcy, I just called their receivable people, made payment arrangements, paid my payments with some interest for them financing my care until it was paid off and that was it. Done. Period. Nothing more to follow and received top quality care, obviously for a period of time while in the Army my medical benefits were covered through the Medical Corps and after I purchased a care plan from Wichita State and Colorado State while in college to use the campus clinic. I just think that all the "I can't get access" people don't try to hard, they just bitch about it. I still don't see the system as a burden, having worked in the system while in college I think the care here is top notch, I have seen care over seas and our system is excellent. Where overseas you ask? Civilian hospitals in Korea, France and Germany. I would take the Worst hospital in Southeast DC before I would take the care provided that I saw over there. Want some more proof?? Check out when Nate Adams badly broke his leg in Italy and the Italian surgeons worked on him WITHOUT anesthesia, that is right, he got a pin put in his FEMUR without pain medication and they did it wrong. So poorly in fact he almost lost his leg. This is no "I read it somewhere" account. There is an entire documentary on it, footage of him screaming in the OR in Italy...go check it out for yourself and then ask if you REALLY want to taken care of by that type of system. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Conchop I m from Spring Hill In Wv you can still run enough shine to buy Canada LOL and you can run a green still | ||
| Conchop |
Kenm - pleased to meet you. I have a Uly - what are you on? PS - moved off the farm on brook - up Coal - Wyoming C has damn fine shine! | ||
| Sifo |
I have had to pay some bills off that were accumulated from a saw blade that redesigned my thumb and a few ill advised "jumps" on the dirt bike when I was younger There's got to be a good story in that one!  | ||
| Conchop |
Liqourwhere-No need to fret! Looks like my buddies in DC are about to make history by passing the countries first medical and insurance reform legislation in history. Of course the GOP [ the party of no ] will be there with their familiar chorus - [ NO ] Health care is a burden. I'm glad you're happy with yours. Mine is so-so and it sure beats none. But it is a grossly inefficient and the profits from the insurers are obscene. THE COSTS TO THE COUNTRY ARE THE REASONS WHY IT IS ON THE RADAR! Watch the movie "sicko" - What I saw of it was illuminating. What I've seen and read from the right wing has been illuminating too. I'm for the "change that can be believed in." Not a modified same old song. | ||
| Sifo |
Watch the movie "sicko" - What I saw of it was illuminating. What you saw was fiction. | ||
| Court |
>>>I have never, with or without insurance been denied care in the United States. You can't be. You don't even need to give a name or be a citizen to get treated. You walk in hurt or sick you get treated. It's the kind of folks we are. But the feds will be tied up for a couple days . . AIG, you remember the insurance company we the taxpayers bought 80% of, just lost $9,000,000,000 and has come to the feds for more money. We cover everyone's ass . . . we don't differentiate between the unfortunate, poor and genuinely needy and the rich, stupid and genuinely greedy. Obamacare is dead in the water. They've pissed about with it for a year, long enough to get the approval rating for Congress down to 14% and in the meantime we just announced the greatest increase in monthly unemployment if the last 3 years during February. | ||
| Liquorwhere |
Liqourwhere-No need to fret! Looks like my buddies in DC are about to make history by passing the countries first medical and insurance reform legislation in history. Of course the GOP [ the party of no ] will be there with their familiar chorus - [ NO ] Health care is a burden. I'm glad you're happy with yours. Mine is so-so and it sure beats none. But it is a grossly inefficient and the profits from the insurers are obscene. THE COSTS TO THE COUNTRY ARE THE REASONS WHY IT IS ON THE RADAR! Watch the movie "sicko" - What I saw of it was illuminating. What I've seen and read from the right wing has been illuminating too. I'm for the "change that can be believed in." Not a modified same old song. Well sir I am not fretting, and as far as "obscene profits" are concerned I think you know less that one posting about business should know. Obscene profits from Health Care are a figment of your imagination, the reinvestment for research, building of new facilities, the cost of legal cases filed by shark in the water attorney's, drug research, FDA approval costs, training costs for managed care, records cost for storage and maintenance. Look every business runs on a profit margin, some are larger than others but none are as high as the public thinks they are if the business is designed to maintain itself for the longterm. What makes it inefficient are the above costs that are due to a lack of tort reform. So because you seem to not really understand the issue, and are taking your cues from Michael Moore, a man that makes infomercial documentaries designed to push a left wing socialist agenda instead of actually documenting anything, then I will just end this post here because it will do no good as you don't want to live in the real world. | ||
| Aesquire |
Wait, Court, Harry Reid said he hadn't said a thing about the nuclear option.. total denial....so I'm betting it happens. I take back my question on "teabagging" it was a stupid question. Conchop, do you have any knowledge of the progressive movement and it's origins & history? | ||
| Aesquire |
I've noticed we get 4 kinds of propaganda repeaters. You guys know, the ones that get the talking points from the media, or baghdad bob gibbs. In no order, one kind is repeating what he heard, yet has a working brain and is open to reason and facts. Show them references that prove a point & they will agree. Sometimes reluctantly, as we all hate to give up a notion. These types are very good people to argue/discuss with, and quite often shows me where I am in error, when some factoid I parrot is wrong. Thanks to all of those posters. Another type parrots his propaganda, and is quite ignorant of facts, he just heard it on tv so it's true. He may insist the moon is green cheese, and when you post a NASA link showing that stilton is actually the main ingredient, ( besides titanium & tritium ) he insists he's right because spongebob squarepants had an episode on the moon...and it's green cheese. I don't know what to do with those people, except thank them & ignore. another kind has the talking points & the Alinsky argument style. Often they never heard of Alinsky, and are either ignorant of history, or, in extreme cases, just lie about it. This type will assert that the GOP is run by spider monkeys, and when shown a link that they are, actually Chimps, will insult you and disparage your ancestors. I try to remember to take that as a win in the discussion, since they have no factual rebuttal. The last kind is either a troll.... or a hardened evil f&*k with deep love of murderous dictators and the oppression of mankind to the greater glory of the Holy State, or Castro, or whatever. These people also use the Alinsky style tactics, but they may have actually read his works ( all of them, not just Rules for Radicals...which is all I could stomach ) but of course will lie about it. In fact they deliberately & knowingly lie about any & everything, since their faith tells them that the ends justify the means. What they are doing trolling a motorcycle board for political arguments? I assume practice in a venue where you don't get hurt. Of course, being at a distance, and not all that bright, I can't tell which is which right away.  So forgive me If I keep trying facts, questions, the Socratic method, and logic on the trolls, doofus's or Goebbels wanna be's. I can also understand ...call it unreasoning hatred for the GOP. For decades the media has for the most part been so partisan that it's amazing Republican conventions aren't firebombed. ( must be good security ) heck, I don't like most of them, but that's either because they are pure political animals with no center, ( A bipartisan thing ) or ... the reasons to dislike a politician are legion. (Message edited by aesquire on February 26, 2010) | ||
| Sifo |
But in which camp would you put BO? Or Hillary for that matter? We (that would the the we that are informed with factual information) know they are both quite familiar with Alinsky. I don't think they qualify as trolls. I'm not sure of their stance on green cheese though. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
the profits from the insurers are obscene. Chop. Please provide to us the average profit margin earned by the insurance industry, on average, for selling health insurance programs to the general public. | ||
| Aesquire |
The following is OPINION. Hillary is a good 60-70's campus radical. Her Thesis praised Alinsky, she even claims to be a Progressive. With her it's ideology. She's a severe feminist, the kind that thinks sex with men is rape, and the source of the great line in the Simpsons, where Lisa is the "first straight female president". She' one of those who is sure if only Stalin had been as smart as her, the Soviets would have conquered the world. Hillary fits the evil revolutionary camp. For her, it's not if the cheese is green, but if it's politically correct comrade. Bill, I think is less idealistic, but willing to play the campus rebel to get laid. See Meatloaf's "Paradise by the Dashboard Light" for how that worked out for him....  Bill will tell you the cheese is good, and not ever mention type. You want to think it's stilton, and that makes you agree with him, he's good. Barack Hussein Obama? I don't know. He's a very angry dude. ( and has reason to be ) I can't tell if he's a hard line leftist with deep desire to make the U.S.of KKKA into a workers paradise....or a hollow man driven mostly by ambition and will to power. Either way, truth is absolutely subordinate to winning. But! I could be wrong about the guy, he's only been a major player for 3 years, and just because he keeps not telling the truth..... he's not alone on that one. Obama will insist it's green cheese, tell you to your face your time is up, and you are off topic. Then cut nasa'a funding if they don't support his position. | ||
| Sifo |
 It's the cheese part that makes it all so understandable! | ||
| Conchop |
Aesquire, do you have any knowledge of the concept of DeToquevilles Noble Savage? Why he wrote of it. Do you have any knowledge of Hobb's Leviathan? He was an uber conservative. Das Capital by MARX - Ever wonder what possessed him to write such a thing? Adam Smith? The middle man Keynes???? You mentioned something about teabagging on a previous post. I must say I have spent a little too much time on the farm. Never heard of such a thing. I'm afraid to ask. Why have you asked twice whether I know anything about the progressive movement and where it started? Was it something to do with 10's of thousands dead because of the rise of communism? Do you know something special? | ||
| Spike |
Do you find it hard to type with your fingers in your ears? Conchop [ The poster of NOT LISTENING ] Carry on in ignorance. |
