| Author | Message | ||
     Hex |
After yesterday's aerial photographs of the World Trade Center collapse, and The Construction Worker's and The Warden's comments about how slow reconstruction has taken, I looked up progress on the WTC http://www.panynj.gov/wtcprogress/index.html, and it looks like things are actually happening, albeit slowly... In the past, projects of this magnitude have taken far less time, I would be interested in seeing timetables of entire cities rebuilt eg: San Francisco after the quake, Heroshima and Nagasaki, Berlin, London, etc. It also brings to mind New Orleans current condition, Porto Prince Haiti, Bagdad, etc. With so many now becoming unemployed, yet any suggestion of a National Works Project being Socialism, I wonder how we will ever get out of this funk. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
WTF America! How are we going to get out of this funk? I'm gonna go ride ad soon as I get my knobbies mounted.... WOOOOO MF'ing HOOOO! (Message edited by wolfridgerider on February 11, 2010) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Put control back into the hands of the people and the free market. We can and have escaped worse financial situations as a nation. Never before, though, have had the albatross as large as the federal government hanging around our necks. Unleash the power of the American entrepreneur. We have the single greatest economic engine on the face of the planet. Unleash it! | ||
| Reindog |
Who is John Galt? | ||
| Hex |
Unleash the power of the American entrepreneur. Is something holding that back? I don't think so. I think free enterprise has actual limits in it's ability to create healthy societies. Both public works and private works created this great nation, now all of a sudden, only private works will do? Who is John Galt? "John Galt is a fictional character in Ayn Rand's novel Atlas Shrugged. Although he is absent from much of the text, he is the subject of the novel's often repeated question, "Who is John Galt?", and the quest to discover the answer. As the plot unfolds, Galt is acknowledged to be a creator and inventor who symbolizes the power of the individual capitalist. He serves as an idealistic counterpoint to the social and economic structure depicted in the novel. The depiction portrays a society based on oppressive bureaucratic functionaries and a culture that embraces the stifling mediocrity and egalitarianism of socialistic idealism. In this popular mass ideology, the industrialists of America were a metaphorical Atlas of Greek mythology, holding up the world, whom Galt convinces to "shrug," by refusing to lend their productive genius to the regime any longer. More than that, however, Galt's character is the embodiment of the best within every person - no matter the degree of his intelligence or productive capacity. By refusing to regard what is good about him as a source of guilt, since it's mere presence may make others feel bad, even in the face of great adversity, Galt is able to reach a profound state of spiritual peace and personal happiness that he explains is available to everyone if they just have the courage to question society's prevailing philosophical notions. Through his efforts to get the best in society to "shrug", the lesson he teaches the world is that the answer to the question "Who is John Galt?" is: yourself - if you choose to live up to it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Galt | ||
| Brumbear |
I don't know http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/SILHIT.html or you could tryhttp://www.chuckallan.com/fccj/amh2020/NewDealProg rams.html The truth is probably there somewhere the problem is IMHO to many people with an overheightened sense of entitlment to do these things anymore. Maybe the answer is somewhere in between. I know people who lived in Hitlers Germany and life was good to the everyday people compared to what it was like before Hitler. The stories are eerily similar to depression to New deal stories we are more familiar with in the US. I understand what was wrong with the third Reich as I am sure everyone does. The thing that scares me is we may need something like brown shirt politics because somany spoiled people with a sense of entitlement in our current country would never work as hard as Roosevelts or our Grandparents America and when I think that I am angry very angry. | ||
| Hex |
There could be other problems too, like unrealistic expectations and unrealistic assessments of greatness. Maybe the greatest thing we have achieved is we are now a nation of consumers and individualism. Maybe China and India are next in line, HD and other free enterprises seem to think so. Our forebearers sought to create something better than they had. Maybe this is all there is... What happens now that we have achieved the American Dream? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Is something holding that back? Yes.  No business is going to bet long on expansion or the creation of a new business knowing that a large portion of the proceeds of that hard work are going to be confiscated by the Federal Government to feed an ever increasing list of entitlement programs. You are an entrepreneur in California. Are you REALLY willing to put in the work required to create a product, bring that product to market, and create a business around that product knowing that you are going to have to relinquish 60%+ of your proceeds to State and Federal government? We need to be cutting programs, cutting taxes, freeing the machinery to allow the economic engine to reset, restart, and thrive. | ||
| Brumbear |
I also want to know who is going to fix our roads bridges tunnels rebuild the rust belt. It isn't like there is not enough to do. Again in the 30's here and there the governments said we need road systems damns and power grids you need a job here is a shovel go to work. In the US back then there was no welfare so you want to eat you work. In Hitlers Germany you work or go to prison or worse. Today you don't work you get welfare free medical from the state you live in, food stamps and spending money. Where is the acountability? Where is the drive to do better ? Corporate tycoons steel billions and there is 0 accountability.The US goverment just does a stimulous package and gives the very thieving Aholes more money. This isn't a democrat/republican thing it's an us against them thing and until we realize that as a nation we are copulated. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
Bring back the Civilian Conservation Corps. It worked then it would work now. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
This isn't a democrat/republican thing it's an us against them thing and until we realize that as a nation we are copulated. Agreed. This is a government reset problem. Article 1, Section 8 Tenth Amendment That's it. No more. No less. Have a sucky state that is bankrupt? Your population leaves until you can get your stuff together and attract business and populations to move back. Who the hell would start a business in Michigan? Why would you start a business and incorporate in California? Socialism and entitlements aren't working. Time to stop digging. | ||
| Aptbldr |
Brumbear's beating the class warfare drum. Been hearing that thump more & more. Could be the middle class is evaporating so fast we're hearing a hiss. | ||
| Aptbldr |
Who here will volunteer to give up your mortgage interest entitlement? | ||
| Glitch |
In the past, projects of this magnitude have taken far less time, I would be interested in seeing timetables of entire cities rebuilt eg: San Francisco after the quake, Heroshima and Nagasaki, Berlin, London, etc. It also brings to mind New Orleans current condition, Porto Prince Haiti, Bagdad, etc. Let's see, we need to compare how long it took to repair an entire city to the WTC? How about the 410 days it took to build the Empire State Building to how long it's taken anything to happen with the WTC? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Who here will volunteer to give up your mortgage interest entitlement? I will!!!!!!!! I'll trade you the mortgage interest for an opt out of Social Security. | ||
| Aptbldr |
No way! If that SS swap's out there, I'm in! | ||
| Brumbear |
I pay $6200 dollars a year property tax and sewer bill I have 9204 square feet of NJ. What I am beating isn't just class war it's just short of Revolution. I have no choice but to be angry and continue to vote someone else in until someone does what they are supposed to do. My mortgage is like $400.00 a month keep the interest but they should start paying my property taxes goddammit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I seriously don't know who to be mad at anymore and this is how brownshirt politics get a foothold in the firstplace | ||
| Aptbldr |
"... this is how brownshirt politics get a foothold ..." Or suicide bombers? I'm with you, dude. Thankfully, we live in interesting times. | ||
| Wavex |
So to summarize: 1) the US economy is thriving on total financial freedom 2) a lot of Americans buy shit they really can't afford, 3) everyone is happy until 2008, when the shit hits the fan, and quickly the whole World finds itself in the worst financial crash since forever, 4) you'd think the bankers (and republican politics) who initiated this this shit would learn from it... but no, they managed to keep all the freedom they wanted... Yepee to the free market and deregulation! oh and the banks also took the bail out money and ran with it... (they created the problem, took the money, and now nothing changed and we're back to where we were before). 5) and here we're complaining about high taxes and Obama, and socialism and the such? I miss the link... Obama and socialism and the current government have nothing to do with the shit we're in... We need to be freeing the machinery to allow the economic engine to reset, restart, and thrive. yeah, let's give the banks even more freedom, that'll help! | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Let the banks fail. Let GM fail. Let AIG fail. It will suck in the short run but the recovery will occur more quickly. Japan is on decade two of "the missing decade" doing exactly what we are trying to do here. We didn't learn our lesson from The Great Depression. There should have been NO bailouts. Article 1, Section 8 | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The founding fathers understood that even the largest companies were powerless to destroy the United States. The single most destructive force is the Federal Government. The founding fathers could have limited corporations, but they chose to limit the Federal Government instead. There was a reason. They understood that economic folly and failure provide a stabilizing force on the free market. They also understood that an unlimited government provided the worst in destabilizing forces. We are seeing this play out. Ask Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, and Franklin Raines. | ||
| Brumbear |
They don't care if they cared it would be done. I tell ya though Independents have IMHO the best chance now to gain a foothold. I know the DEM's and Rep's have all the money so you can't compete with the media time. Independents have utube and it's free you can send messages like never before and free I hope it gets done. I wanted to just put my papers in run for council as an Independent and just put signs up with my pic and a saying with a search Utube for my name thing see if you like what I got. Just for shyts and giggles but what would I do if I actually won I don't know but it might be fun to try | ||
| Court |
Who . . indeed . . . is John Galt?
And the info you got off the PANY site was in perfect harmony with what I said, right? I hope it was because it was accurate the entire time I was there today.
Again . . .another accurate statement. To add flavor, to give the layman a sense of magnitude, about 1/10th the time. For example . . the Empire State Building was constructed . . . from "shovel in the ground to the first tenets in their offices" in a bit over a year.
We will not even begin to get out until government stops meddling in private business. Government now owns car companies (which they've ushered into the crapped), banks, is telling folks what they can be paid (although that changed Sunday when Obama figured out he'd just called his major donor a "fat cat banker" and quickly decided that $18,000,000 was "fair and just compensation for hard work".) . . . the insurance thing is a fiasco and, in just the last week, 440,000 people made their first trip to the unemployment office. I founded, owned and managed a business for most my career. . . . I wouldn't THINK of hiring anybody in times like these . . . it's like having a single bullet and trying to hit a moving target. Just guess . . . what the capital gains tax will be in the next year . . two years? Tough times. On the other hand . . . and I'll share with you some pure frickin' selfishness . . . . the current administration is doing me favors I've never dreamed off. In the last year we've gotten over $250,000,000 in "stimulus" $ we never asked for to do stuff like solar, smart grids and so forth . . . I got my largest bonus ever last year and we're so busy we've got folks working overtime. In a personally selfish fashion I hope they keep things just like they are for about 24 months until I retire. Who is John Galt? | ||
| Hex |
Article 1, Section 8: The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; To borrow money on the credit of the United States; To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes; To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States; To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures; To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States; To establish post offices and post roads; To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries; To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court; To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations; To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water; To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years; To provide and maintain a navy; To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces; To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof. Tenth Amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
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| Blake |
"Is something holding that back? I don't think so." Wow, are you out of touch! We're in tough times, real unemployment is up around 20%. How many government employees have been laid-off or hit with pay cuts? The more the people depend on the government the less freedom and initiative there will be for the entrepreneur. John Stossel had an excellent program yesterday on this very issue, Fox Business Network; it repeats for until next Thursda; check your local listings. At this point, we have more people in America who get more from the government than they pay. That is the tipping point of doom for freedom. When more people get more from the gov than they pay in, then the gov is a self-fulfilling juggernaut that seeks to impose its idea of equality and welfare for all. It's anti-liberty. The only equality guaranteed us by the constitution is equality in the eyes of the law. No where does it say that all shall be afforded the same opportunity or be provided with equally redistributed welfare. That mentality that is rampant now in government, that the welfare of Americans is most important is what is killing us. When a production line worker out of high school is making as much or more than an engineer graduating college, then we have a HUGE problem. Labor unions run amuck! Which economy and job market is thriving? How much do their laborers earn? I'm not advocating communism or the deplorable working scenarios in China, but there is a middle ground. The thinking that school teachers and laborers should earn six figures is wrong. The compensation of government employees leads their private sectors counterparts by a reported 30%! Why would I not prefer a government job that is about impossible to get fired from over taking a risk to start my own business? Wake the •••• up! | ||
| 86129squids |
I like the funk. PARLIAMENT FUNKADELIC DON'T DISS DA FUNK AAAWWWW WEEEEEE GOT THA FUNK GOTTA HAVE THAT FUNK AAAWWWW WEEEEEE THANK U FORLETTINME BE MICE ELF AGAIIIN | ||
| Court |
>>>>How many government employees have been laid-off or hit with pay cuts? . . . . The compensation of government employees leads their private sectors counterparts by a reported 30%! In addition, within the last year, government . . .
And a small correction to what you said about firing . . . you used the phrase " about impossible to get fired from". That's inaccurate, it's not "about" it is out and out impossible. For details check out the NYC teachers who are in the "rubber room". No kidding, one of them has sexually assaulted 3 students over the years and has been deemed "unfit" to be in the classroom but there is no way they can fire him so for 10 years he's been making his $100,000/year just hanging out doing nothing. Don't get me started on the %160,000 per year ferry mechanics or the $240,000 per year librarians. Interesting thing . . . but a company I am very familiar with is the same way. . . short of a crime, they have never fire anybody in the history of the company. I', thinking . . . but know better than to stir them . . about taking photos of the sleeping engineers someday. It's kinda funny to walk through engineering and to see an 87 year old engineer peacefully dozing at his desk. What a shame . . . the middle class will soon be paying the price for this. Someone, somewhere is going to get the bill and their just ain't enough of the rich to foot it . . . it, eventually, will have to be spread out over the middle class. You've seen some of this as Obama's definition of "wealthy" started at $240,00 a year and has continually crept down (now at $150,000) as they needed more and more folks to foot the bill for the record spending. It's really funny to watch here in NYC. . . I watched all the young folks at the LMDC (which spent $2,000,000,000 of your money before it was disbanded) taking all those big fat salaries to "promote" the reconstruction of the World Trade Center. They did throw some great and lavish parties.  | ||
| Mark61 |
NYC and Washington, DC ain't the real world, have no connection to reality anymore. Bad as or even worse than San Francisco. mark61 | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
We are so F***** |
