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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 12:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Who cares what Pawlenty does or does NOT do with MN state money?

The 345-75 House vote and the 83-7 Senate vote was what mattered.


We got "punked" by ACORN and the Community Organizer. We simply put an end to the game.
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Reindog
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 12:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Getting paid for a speech happens all the time. Do you think the Clintons and Gore speak for free?

What does your quote have anything to do with the corruption, voter fraud, and embezzlement of ACORN? If Pawlenty made a gaff, then so what? ACORN is still an unethical and criminal organization.

What do your so called arguments have anything to do about Fox News? You seem to be off your game, tonight.
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Reindog
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 12:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Doh!......FB beat me to it again. : )
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M2me
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 12:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

What is wrong with the Teaparty movement? I don't know enough about it but it sounds ok to me.

The problem I have with the Tea Party movement is that it's portrayed by the "liberal media" as some big, grassroots movement. By "liberal media" I mean mostly Fox but CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, etc. are also guilty. They reported on the Tea Party convention as if it were a Democratic or Republican convention. There were some 500 or so people there and they paid $500+ to attend the keynote speech. That's not a political party! That's a for profit corporation. But that's not how the Tea Party is portrayed by the "liberal media". They portray it as a grass roots political movement. It's not. Maybe my problem is more with the "liberal media" than it is with the Tea Party movement. The Tea Party movement is, from my what I see, concerned primarily with big corporate profits, not with the concerns of the majority of the people. If the "liberal media" would just be honest about that I wouldn't have a problem.

I don't mind arguing with you or Aesquire. You guys seem cool. I don't agree with your politics but you seem to approach your arguments in a somewhat logical way. I can understand that.
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 12:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

So far the only coherent argument is that the world would be one giant utopia were it not for:

Christians (or anyone religious)
Conservatives
Fox News


I'm still trying to find the exact date in the past before there were these three banes of global existence when there was heaven on earth.

I haven't found it yet.


Maybe when it was just Adam? : )
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M2me
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 12:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Getting paid for a speech happens all the time. Do you think the Clintons and Gore speak for free?

Sen. Obama did not get paid to give the keynote speech at the 2004 Democratic National Convention. I have no doubt about that. No politician would accept a dime to give the keynote speech at either a Democratic or Republican national convention. The payday is priceless. Sarah Palin was paid to give the keynote at the Tea Party convention. That doesn't wash.
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Buellerandy
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 12:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Every time a thread like this pops up, it creates an inner desire to watch the movie Swordfish. That kind of ideology I could live with.
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 12:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The Tea Party movement is, from my what I see, concerned primarily with big corporate profits, not with the concerns of the majority of the people. If the "liberal media" would just be honest about that I wouldn't have a problem.

Where the HELL is my participation check from these corporations?

Odd that the "majority of the people" don't like what is happening:




And here's a little gem:

75% Are Angry At Government’s Current Policies



And then there's this:

61% Say Congress Doing a Poor Job


Exactly what "majority" are you referring to?
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 12:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Sarah Palin was paid to give the keynote at the Tea Party convention. That doesn't wash.

Hate to break it to you but the Tea Party isn't a political party.

Please name the Tea Party candidate in any race in any state.
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Reindog
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 12:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I really don't know a lot about them but it does appear to be an ad hoc organization. Check it out for yourself.

teaparty website

Their mission statement are definitely the ideals that I believe in
• Fiscal Responsibility
• Constitutionally Limited Government
• Free Markets

mission statement

The attack by Pelosi and which you appear to be parroting, makes me wonder that maybe this teapartying thing ain't so bad. I did laugh when detractors called them teabaggers. I should be so lucky. I learned about teabagging from "Curb Your Enthusiasm".
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Reindog
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 12:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I am beginning to hate FB. : ) He kinda, sorta said what I was going to say ... again.

m2me has a contradiction. You argue that SP shouldn't get paid for a speech because the DemoPublican Parties don't do that. In your earlier post, you admitted that the teabagging teapartiers aren't a political org.
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M2me
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 12:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Odd that the "majority of the people" don't like what is happening:

Our old friends Rasmussen! Look at their polls from the 2008 election. They had McCain winning or the race tight in MN, WI, IA, etc. I looked at the Rasmussen polls and just laughed! Obama dominated those states! It wasn't even close. I knew it going in, but not Rasmussen. They are always way off of what every other poll shows. Rasmussen is an outlier. I wouldn't trust them to tell me whether the sun rises in the east or west (the Rasmussen poll would say west).
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M2me
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 12:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

m2me has a contradiction. You argue that SP shouldn't get paid for a speech because the DemoPublican Parties don't do that. In your earlier post, you admitted that the teabagging teapartiers aren't a political org.

I never said they weren't a political organization. I said they weren't a grass roots political organization. I said their political goals were not for the majority of the people. I said their political goals were for big corporations. Granted, you could argue the same thing about the Democratic or Republican parties, but don't try to portray the Tea Party movement as something it's not. It's not grass roots. It's not populist. It's for profit and corporate driven. Be honest about it.
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Reindog
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 12:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

You might have laughed but these sentences are contained in the wiki:

A paid Fordham University analysis ranked Rasmussen Reports as the most accurate national polling firm in Election 2008.[6] The Fordham analysis is a preliminary analysis based on projected vote totals. The final vote margin of victory was 7.2 points compared to the 6.15 used in the Fordham analysis.[6][7]

Reports by Slate Magazine and The Wall Street Journal found that Rasmussen Reports was one of the most accurate polling firms for the 2004 United States presidential election and 2006 United States general elections.[8][9]

wiki here

I don't know how valid the wiki is but I suspect it is closer to the truth than your bias.
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 12:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Sure. Don't like the results attack the source.

Well here are ALL the sources. I'm guessing you are a Gallup man.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

58% of the population (average of ALL the polls) feel we are going in the wrong direction.

70.3% of the population (average of ALL the polls) disapprove of the job Congress is doing.


Picking the "right" poll and discounting the "wrong" polls doesn't really reflect reality, does it?

Kind of like stating that the only credible news outlet is MSNBC.
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 07:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Just as the "media" jumped on he McCain bandwagon, ( because he was a loser ) they are now pushing the idea that the "teaparty" guys are a Party.

So that the "new guys" will take votes away from the evil Republicans, just like Ross Perot.

Now, some of the teaparty ideas are good, just like the Libertarians, and some are not so hot.

Seems like the Dem ideas are raise taxes, spend twice as much every year on social programs to buy votes from the unemployed. Also it looks like they want to make more unemployed, to get more votes.
( that is of course a one sided simplistic view )

Iran, Russia, the Communist Party, and terrorist groups all support the Democrats. Ever wonder why?
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Liquorwhere
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 08:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

At the end of the day does all this "fact" slinging and "I'm right your wrong" really gonna change our already up nation back to a country that at least seemed on the surface to be a free state?

Spread the word for sure, fine, but ultimately it seems that with ACORN type organizations that voting has been compromised, our freedoms are being drained away to thunderous applause by those that have their hands out waiting on a check and truly the only people doing anything about it will be discredited on television by those that are really in control.

Losing battle my friends, keep your guns close, ride your bike, woman and your freedom as much as you can until it is time to fight.

Good luck with all this.
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Cowboy
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 08:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Things will continue to spirel downward untill we get a heavy pole tax again and vote responcable. (people that vote for free make bad choices)
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Mountainstorm
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 09:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

So Court

How come you didn't respond when you got caught out on the Shoe Bomber being a Brit not a US citizen? I guess that's an "inconvenient truth." : D

And you Blake, why is it that anyone contrary to your point of view is villified with ad hominem attacks? Do you see how that just undercuts any merit your retort may have?

You guys are supposed to be the brains of the outfit...is that the best you can do...spout misinformation and attack anyone with a different POV?

Seems like you are both stuck in a rut...the same rut you were stuck in when you decried Iraq's attack on the twin towers (when it was never Iraq). Beating your chests like "True Patriots" when in fact you come across as brainwashed tools...pretty silly stuff.

Just saying.
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 09:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Debating a liar is pointless. How insignificant is voter registration fraud on a nation-wide basis involving hundreds of thousands if not more? How significant is it that honest folks in ACORN were kicked out and are being sued to try to silence them. How significant that ACORN operates under an umbrella corporation comprising over 100 different, often left wing activist organizations. How significant that our President was a key organizer and activist for ACORN? Nothing to see here folks, move on, don't pay attention to Fox News, naaaaaaah, naaaaaaah, close your hands over your eats, don't look, don't read, you can't handle the truth... say the people who want "to fundamentally change the United States of America" (a Barack Obama Quote).


quote:

In the state of Missouri in 1986, 12 ACORN members were convicted of voter fraud. But that case was not an isolated incident in the state. In December 2004, in St. Louis, six volunteers pleaded guilty of dozens of election law violations for filling out registration cards with names of dead people and other bogus information. Authorities launched an earlier investigation after noticing that among the new voters was longtime St. Louis alderman Albert “Red” Villa, who died in 1990. The volunteers worked for “Operation Big Vote” — a branch of ACORN — in St. Louis.

On February 10, 2005, Nonaresa Montgomery, a paid worker who ran Operation Big Vote during the run-up to the 2001 mayoral primary, was found guilty of vote fraud. Montgomery hired about 30 workers to do fraudulent voter-registration canvassing. Instead of knocking on doors, the volunteers sat at a St. Louis fast food restaurant and wrote out names and information from an outdated voter list. About 1,500 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in.

In October 2006, St. Louis election officials discovered at least 1,492 “potentially fraudulent” voter registration cards. They were all turned in by ACORN volunteers.

In November 2006, 20,000 to 35,000 questionable voter registration forms were turned in by ACORN officials in Missouri. Most all of these were from St. Louis and Kansas City areas, where ACORN purportedly sought to help empower the “disenfranchised” minorities living there. But the ACORN workers weren’t just told to register new voters. The workers admitted on camera that they were coached to tell registrants to vote for Democrat Claire McCaskill.

In 2007, in Kansas City, Missouri, four ACORN employees were indicted for fraud. In April of this year eight ACORN employees in St. Louis city and county pleaded guilty to federal election fraud for submitting bogus voter registrations.

And, that was just Missouri.

This year there have been several accusations of fraud against ACORN. Over a dozen states are investigating the organization already. Here is a complete list of the ongoing investigations:

North Carolina — State Board of Elections officials have found at least 100 voter registration forms with the same names over and over again. The forms were turned in by ACORN. Officials sent about 30 applications to the state Board of Elections for possible fraud investigation.

Ohio — The New York Post reported that a Cleveland man said he was given cash and cigarettes by aggressive ACORN activists in exchange for registering an astonishing 72 times. The complaints have sparked an investigation by election officials into the organization, whose political wing has supported Barack Obama. Witnesses have already been subpoenaed to testify against the organization.

Nevada — Authorities raided the headquarters of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now on Tuesday October 7, 2008, after a month-long investigation. The fraudulent voter registrations included the Dallas Cowboys starting line-up.

Indiana — More than 2,000 voter registration forms filed in northern Indiana’s Lake County filled out by ACORN employees turned out to be bogus. Officials also stopped processing a stack of about 5,000 applications delivered just before the October 6 registration deadline after the first 2,100 turned out to be phony.

Connecticut — Officials are looking into a complaint alleging ACORN submitted fraudulent voter registration cards in Bridgeport. In one instance, an official said a card was filled out for a 7-year-old girl, whose age was listed as 27. 8,000 cards were submitted in Bridgeport.

Missouri — The Kansas City election board is reporting 100 duplicate applications and 280 with fake information. Acorn officials agreed that at least 4% of their registrations were bogus. Governor Matt Blunt condemned the attempts by ACORN to commit voter fraud.

Pennsylvania — Officials are investigating suspicious or incomplete registration forms submitted by ACORN. 252,595 voter registrations were submitted in Philadelphia. Remarkably, 57,435 were rejected — most of them submitted by ACORN.

Wisconsin — In Milwaukee ACORN improperly used felons as registration workers. Additionally, its workers are among 49 cases of bad registrations sent to authorities for possible charges, as first reported by the Journal Sentinel.

Florida — The Pinellas County Elections supervisor says his office has received around 35 voter registrations that appear to be bogus. There is also a question of 30,000 felons who are registered illegally to vote. Their connections with ACORN are not yet clear.

Texas — Of the 30,000 registration cards ACORN turned in, Harris County tax assessor Paul Bettencourt says just more than 20,000 are valid. And just look at some of the places ACORN was finding those voters. A church just next door is the address for around 150 people. More than 250 people claim a homeless outreach center as their home address. Some listed a county mental health facility as their home and one person even wrote down the Harris County jail at the sheriff’s office.

Michigan — ACORN in Detroit is being investigated after several municipal clerks reported fraudulent and duplicate voter registration applications coming through. The clerk interviewed said the fraud appears to be widespread.

New Mexico – The Bernalillo County clerk has notified prosecutors that some 1,100 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in by ACORN.

That’s not all. So far this year at least 14 states have started investigations against ACORN.

from http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-complete-guide-to -acorn-voter-fraud/




The fact that multiple ACORN offices were also caught promoting prostitution and some even child prostitution is just yet more evidence of the type of people and the mentality that pervade the socialist activist group.

But don't pay attention to any of it, John and his fellow Socialists who want "to fundamentally change the United States of America" are depending on you to ignore, forget, and move on. Certainly don't watch Fox News or listen to talk radio. Your best path is to appease them and only listen to their brethren on MSNBC and Air America, if it is still broadcasting, hitting the bankruptcy button now for the second time.

(Message edited by blake on February 11, 2010)
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Hootowl
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 09:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The 500-600 people who attended the tea party convention are local leaders of the movement, those were the only folks invited. To say that there are only 500 tea party members in the US is a bald faced lie.
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 09:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I don't think I have posted a single piece of "misinformation". In fact, I am very careful to cite my sources.
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Reindog
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 10:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Why do posters with leftist political viewpoints tend to argue emotionally, don't use facts, and refuse to cite sources? They would get an F grade if that was attempted at school. I understand their predicament, which stems from a subconscious fear that the employment of logic will uncover the bankruptcy of their unexamined political positions.
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Hmartin
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 11:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I gave up arguing facts years ago; total waste of time.
"dogma - a doctrine or belief that is proclaimed as true without proof or a material base."

(Message edited by hmartin on February 11, 2010)
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Reindog
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 11:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)


quote:

I said they weren't a grass roots political organization. I said their political goals were not for the majority of the people. I said their political goals were for big corporations....It's not grass roots. It's not populist. It's for profit and corporate driven. Be honest about it.



How do you know this? I trust your source is more than Nancy Pelosi calling them "astroturf"? It appears that they are grass roots as there are literally hundreds of teaparty groups. Have you read their mission statement which was posted earlier? Their political goals are EXACTLY aligned with the overwhelming majority of Americans.
• Fiscal Responsibility
• Constitutionally Limited Government
• Free Markets

List of teaparty groups

Convince us otherwise. While you are at it, provide a treatise that explains why ACORN is an honest organization.
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Swampy
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 11:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"Debating a Liar is pointless"

I was going to say, that is why lawyers must die!, don't quote me on that though, there must be one good one out there somewhere and they must be put in the Smithsonian as the oxymoron display along side the platypus.

You would be suprised at how many attorneys are politicians. We are being represented by a bunch of shyster pettyfoggers, and there is no hope for America.

Now you know why things are so Effed up.
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Reindog
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 11:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Eventually, a person with unexamined beliefs will become more rational when presented with facts and reasoned argument.
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P47b
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 12:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Holy mother.
I just wanted to find out If the sign was real..
I don't remember posting

GAME ON
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P47b
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 12:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

NEXT

(Message edited by p47b on February 11, 2010)
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Drkside79
Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 01:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

They rally round tha family! With a pocket full of shells...
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