| Author | Message | ||
     Mikej |
Alright then, camera technology changes as fast as any computer technology does, so what was good six months (or even 6 weeks) ago might be superceded today, or had a major price drop, or both. I am looking for a camera. I'll lay out some of my parameters, needs, likes, dislikes, present some cameras I'm considering, some I've used, and anything else I feel like thumb-typing in.  If anyone else wants to tag onto this thread then feel free to do so, no problem, because what you ask might offer something I didn't think of. And with that said -- here goes .... I'm looking for a camera, a digital camera, SLR style of format, pocket sized is not required for this need/want. I will use it for indoor stuff, outdoor stuff, sports, nature, weddings, motorcycle races, bicycle races, track & field events, car shows, boating events, fishing events, fishing and camping trips, and basically a do-about-anything camera. And, yes, I know there isn't one camera that is the best for everything, but hopefully I'll be able to find one that comes close enough for my needs and wants. We've got an older Sony We've borrowed a Nikon Coolpix P80 that overall I like. Picture cycle can be slow for followup pics, and there is a shutter delay which has caused me to miss some action shots ( soccer game action shots ) but that delay has also given a good shot too ( the exact moment a player stepped on another player's ankle and broke a small bone in the other player's foot, the ball was gone but the camera caught the crunch ). I do really like the zoom range of the lens, 27mm - 486mm per the web spec sheet. A wider angle would be nice for group portraits, but the zoom max is nice when a bride and groom are sharing a spoonfull of ice cream across the room, or when zooming in on a ring placement. But as far as buying a Nikon Coolpix P80, I think I could do better today for the same money. Some camera models I'm starting to look at are the following: Nikon: D90 D40 D5000 D300s D3000 Canon: 5D Mark II SD700 (I might have that wrong, can't read my own writing) Rebel T1i Price range currently will be determined by what I can sell (bicycles, Buell M2, dirty socks, whatever that I have too many of or don't use anymore like a variety of golf clubs I've collected over the years). So I know my camera shopping list has a wide range. I think my initial budget will be either in the $350-$550 range or in the $700-$1300 range. I would like something that will handle a remote or cabled flash, and would like something with a removable lens. The lens swap option could be over-ruled if I found something like the Coolpix P80 that I liked better than the P80. I've learned over the years that I like Canon and Nikon cameras, but the Sony we have has taught me to keep an open mind if something has a better specific function. Looking forward to any advice or suggestions or recommendations. And as for being a wedding photographer, I plan to stay strictly amateur with a disclaimer that the newly weds not rely upon me as their sole photographer. No promises, no guarantees, I'll do what I can but beyond that I don't want to have to take out insurance or pay for a repeat wedding like I've heard that some have had to do. Our own photographer, while highly recommended, provided us with marginal results (and many slightly off kilter pics). [I actually learned a bit about what not to do after having watched him and then seeing the results] Thank you for any input and replies. (Message edited by mikej on February 09, 2010) | ||
| Court |
Easy. D90. Hands down. | ||
| Andymnelson |
Ditto. We have a D90 and do everything from day to day pic of kids and family to baby shoots, wedding shoots and studio shoots. Love it. get a 50mm fixed zoom lens and you're golden. | ||
| Mikej |
Well, uh, gee, that was anticlimatic.  So that takes care of the mid/higher $$$ range. If I sell the Campy'd track bike that should about cover it. Looks like I'm off to do some more reading and deal shopping. Anything to watch out for on the used market? How do they hold up, what usually starts to act up first? I know on the Coolpix we've borrowed that sometimes the rear lcd doesn't want to turn on and sometimes the battery doesn't take a charge, but those could be more from abuse/mis-use than from camera failure. Anyway, thanks. And I guess I'm serious about this, ran out to the grocery store to get something to eat for lunch and came back with an Outdoor Photographer magazine and no food.  . Looks like I'll be eating a packet of CreamOfWheat and reading today. (I need to loose weight anyway.) | ||
| Piotr12 |
A good used 20D. Save the extra $ for some nice lenses and accessories. | ||
| Hex |
Here's my four cents: 1. For portrait photography (including wedding) you need a rig. A rig is a device that allows you to articulate the camera independently from the flash. You want to be able to go from landscape format to portrait and back with the flash always remaining about a foot above the lens. 2. It's all about capturing light. You NEED the largest aperture possible (f2.0 is nice). If you get an inexpensive zoom lens you will be stuck with f3.5-f5.6-f8 etc. minimum, and that is not acceptable for professional work. Period. 3. You cannot rely on any flash for high output AND repetitive shots. So you are back to the expensive lenses. 4. As a wedding photographer you will only need two lenses plus something that can do decent macro (like your point and shoot). For Nikon they are the 24-70mm f2.8 and the 70-200mm f2.8. I like prime lenses and move in and out towards the subject, but I'm old school. (Message edited by Hex on February 08, 2010) | ||
| Hex |
Here's more: Autofocus, guess what? it doesn't work reliably in low light situations unless you have an f2.8 or lower lens. Even with the inferred assist on the best flashes, you will be very frustrated when you miss 10 shots while the camera is searching for focus through a dim lens. (Message edited by Hex on February 08, 2010) | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
Try looking into the Sony Alpha series DSLRs. Just an option. | ||
| Mikej |
Appreciate the input. Kind of like film cameras, looks like I need to pick my platform and then add the tools (lenses, flash, rig) to fill out the requirements. Specs on the D90 look good, price puts a delay into it. I'll have to watch the sales and local used market. We went to a small town church function last month and there was a small town journalist/photographer there. I got to talk with him a little and picked up a couple of ideas. I think he had an older (relative term there) Canon DSLR (I think a 5D) and a Nikon DSLR (not sure of the model). Said he got them used as trade-ins from some vendor to the larger local press photographers. He also had some sort of frosted white enclosure or difuser for his flash unit. A couple years ago we were at a more formal wedding and that photographer had her flash units mounted to their own stands, camera was independent on it's own tripod. Way more involved than I want to get into at this point. She had reflector screens, fill lights, and a variety of other stuff. Good thing she didn't set fully up until after the ceremony otherwise nobody could have seen the ceremony. I've no idea what sort of cameras she had because she also had two or three helpers with her. I'm going to have to price a few lenses as well. Or maybe just live with a Coolpix. Off to browse while the computer here regenerates geometry. | ||
| Hex |
He also had some sort of frosted white enclosure or difuser for his flash unit. Yup, LightSphere, use 'em, ALWAYS. http://store.garyfonginc.com/licl.html | ||
| 12x9sl |
If it were me, I'd go for the D90 and after that the Canon 30D/40D. I like the colors of the Nikon better. I have a Sony A-100, it's ok-I've gotten some good shots with it. I mostly just need a better lens than the kit lens. If I had it to do over, I'd go with the Nikon first, Canon second. The main reason I'd consider a Canon is because my sister-in-law shoots weddings, etc. with a Canon and I could borrow her lens. (Message edited by 12x9sl on February 08, 2010) | ||
| Jonny5 |
Canon 7D - it's a little over your $1300 cap but I see you have the 5DMkII on your list and it's cheaper than that. Unless you want to trade your M2 for my backup camera (Canon 20D) and I'll make the 7D my main body and demote the 40D to backup. I'll even throw in some 2.8 glass!  | ||
| Ratyson |
I have an added question: My wife wants a Cannon 500D for her birthday. I have found "kits" on the web, like fotoconnection dot com that have kits that include a couple lenses, the body, tripod, sd card with reader, etc. First, is fotoconnection dot com a reputable place? and if so, are their prices good? I haven't purchased an SLR camera since my Minolta x700 back in the mid-late 80's. | ||
| Damnut |
I've had my D90 for over a year now and it still amazes me. I still consider myself a noob though. I was at my folks' 40th Anniversary party a few weeks ago with it. My brother and my uncle, both Canon Rebel owners, were busting my balls about having a Nikon. I grabbed all of their pictures after the event and made a slide show video for my parents with all of our pictures combined. I also made a bunch of copies and passed them out to my family. Care to guess who's pictures received compliments and who's pictures looked crappy next to them? My brother even called to tell me after he watched the video and said that he should have took my advise and bought a Nikon. I think I deafened his ear by laughing so hard. Just got a nice Nikon 35mm f1.8 lens for Christmas. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Easy. EOS Rebel T2i EF-S http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=M odelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=19943 Hands down. Only construction workers use Nikons any more.  www.photomorse.com (Message edited by gentleman_jon on February 08, 2010) | ||
| Damnut |
Take it easy with some of those photo shops. ALWAYS Google the site for reviews BEFORE you purchase anything. A lot of these camera shops are "bait & switch" type scams. Cameta Camera (sp), B&H Photo and Hunts are the places that I always have had good service from. There are others but forget their names right now. | ||
| Jonny5 |
Ratyson - make sure it isn't a "grey market" camera (no US warranty). I don't have any experience with fotoconnection.com, but B&H Photo is a reputable dealer. -J5 | ||
| Damnut |
And www.DPReview.com is a great site for camera info/reviews/comparisons. | ||
| Hex |
There are available both import and US versions of both Canon and Nikon platforms. Guess what, Import versions are NOT covered by warranty. Also, www.keh.com is a good source for new/used equipment. | ||
| Court |
The D90 is the cat's meow in this price point. It has pretty much everything the higher end D300 has if you can live with the plastic body. The attraction to buying the D90 is that it also allows you to save some money for lens. One of the lessons I've learned is that saving money on lens is like saving money on condoms . . . Don't get too caught up in the Canon v. Nikon debate. There are no "wrong" choices. One of the reasons I use Nikon, except for my backup Canon G10, is that New York is the USA Captial of Photography and it's a bit of a "Nikon Town". By that, I mean when I have a tripod tip face over and smash a lens I can walk into PhotoTech on 13th (or any one of 17 places) and have it rebuilt while I wait. Another thing that happens in NYC is that, while I am gathering the saving and courage to buy $6,000 lens there are no less than 5 places within 2 blocks of my office that rent them. One thing that, and I'm not sure you can do it where you are, is to rent a D90 and a Canon for a day . . . walk through Central Park. . .play with them and form some thoughts. Adorama, as an example, gives you a credit for anything you buy within 30 days of rental. I'm lusting over a couple lens like the new updated 70-200 VRII and I'll likely rent before I buy. The BIG attraction of the D90 is that it's really cheap for what you get. The only concession I'd make to not buying new is to buy a Nikon Factory Refurbished. Used cameras are scary (although I did really well beating on the D100 for 6 years) but I have never heard of anyone having anything but good luck with the Nikon Refurbs. Come to grips with the fact that . . . from a photo quality perspective. . .there are no "wrong choices" in the Nikon and Canon comparison it comes down to a matter of who's control layout you like the best. No sooner will you get it than you'll be lusting for lens and GOOD flash equipment. By the way . . you'll soon learn that flash equipment worth having will sent you back $300-$600 per unit and the moment you buy one you figure out you want two . . . . Like women, cars and guitars . . . ain't it? P.S. - I still carry my Nikon CoolPix 2.1 MP 950 ane it shoots EXCELLENT stuff. don't get too caught up in mega-pixels. You'll note that a lot of the high end cameras, until the last year or two, were 2.1 MP. | ||
| Mikej |
Yep, that LightSphere is what he had. A whole lot easier than trying to hold a styrofoam cup in place. | ||
| Jonny5 |
Hey MikeJ, in the Milwaukee area you can rent cameras from Art's Cameras Plus - prices aren't bad, and that way you can try before you buy - might be a good option for the wedding your shooting. Just make sure you get it the day before to figure out all the buttons! http://www.artscameras.com/rentals.htm -J5 (Message edited by Jonny5 on February 08, 2010) | ||
| Danger_dave |
I have a D90. But I don't do weddings. I'd end up giving them a lecture about wasting all this money and how they should be saving it for a house. | ||
| Hex |
To the Bride, a house is worthless unless she has her StoryBook wedding on the coffee table. To the Groom, he just wants the garage. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
I have a 7D. Fantastic! | ||
| Jonny5 |
The manager at my local camera shop just told me that the opening for SNL was shot with a canon 7D and 5DMkII - pretty impressive! -J5 | ||
| Squintz |
D90 | ||
| Court |
>>>I'd end up giving them a lecture about wasting all this money and how they should be saving it for a house. Tell me about it . . the guy who shot our wedding was from New Zealand. The 7D, at $1,800, is twice the price of the D90. The 5D Mk II, at $2500, is three times the price of the D90. It's what we call "scope creep" in construction. Again . . . they are all fine cameras. The way my thinking always goes is that just the minute I was pulling the trigger on the 5D I'd process the "Hey, I could buy a D90 and a $1,700 lens". Shopping is half the fun . . . again . . the only place you can go wrong, from the cameras mentioned, trying to buy a cheap lens. Buy the camera "body only" so you don't get stuck with a collection of cheap lenses. | ||
| Rkc00 |
MikeJ, A lot of great advice here. Here is my list of equipment: Bodys: Nikon D3 Nikon D700 Nikon D300 Nikon D200 Lens: Nikon 18-70 f3.5-4.5 DX (great cheap lens, only used on my D200) Nikon 14-24 f2.8 Nikon 24-70 f2.8 Nikon 70-200 f2.8 VR Nikon 50 f1.8 Nikon 85 f1.4 Nikon 300 f2.8 VR Nikon 600 f4.0 II TC-1.4 Converter TC 2.0 Converter (1) SB-800 flash (2) SB-900 flash (4) Multi Max Pocket Wizards As you can see I am a Nikon Guy. Sorry Jon  Save your money and buy the best you can afford. Spend most of your money on the lens. Court, That 70-200 VRII is next on my list for the up coming Motocross season. I will be getting my 70-200 refurbished soon at Nikon here on LI. I might sell it after that. Let me know if you are intersted. What lens are you looking for? Here is one I took with the D3 and the 600mm f4.0 + 1.4 TC on Saturday:  Mike Long Island, NY | ||
| Jonny5 |
Court has a very good point - new and "better" camera bodies are popping up every 6 months or so. You would be better off spending a little more money on some good lenses and a cheaper body to start with. When you look at the specs. most of the lower priced bodies blow my old 20D out of the water - but I still use it as my 2nd body (granted, it has a 70-200mm f/2.8L IS attached) and it does an excellent job. -J5  |
