| Author | Message | ||
     Metalrabbit |
And to think the poor guy just missed Hale Bopp. Just look at what we could have missed. | ||
| Reg_kittrelle |
I've had the benefit of living in several different countries and areas that have been under the influence of a wide variety of religions. At an early age I was struck by how each of these religions believed that theirs was the True Path, and that those who believed otherwise were... wrong. As young as I was, it quickly occurred to me that they couldn't all be right. I am neither a believer nor an atheist (or an agnostic) because religion has never been a factor in my life. I do, however, have great respect for those who do 'believe.' I say this because I expect to be accorded the same level of respect for my absence of religion. These discussions are always interesting. And they always include a thin strain of nastiness that causes me to recall that "True Path" epiphany of my youth. Why is it that so many who claim a faith are so anxious to challenge and discredit the beliefs of others? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
saying that Paganism was a man made religion I don't think that was my point at all. On the gay marriage topic, my point was that marriage is a religious institution and should NOT be regulated by the states whereas civil unions are a legal term and could and should be regulated by the states. I believe my point was that if you wanted to successfully create "gay marriage", proponents should be attacking it from a separation of church and state standpoint and make all unions, hetero and homo, "civil unions". My point was also that the goal of proponents was NOT to gain benefits denied by marriage (available under civil unions) but to gain greater social acceptance by forcing the acceptance of gay unions as equal to marriage, a historically religious institution. Paganism is a religion and is therefore protected as such. A pagan marriage is still a religious institution. An atheist marriage is still a religious institution with the god in question being null, void, zero, naught. I do enjoy the discussion and am glad it has remained largely civil. Pot shots are easy. Well thought out arguments are not. | ||
| Hex |
And to think the poor guy just missed Hale Bopp. Just look at what we could have missed. I haven't missed a thing. This is me, my house, and Hale Bop. Keep 'em comin' lads. I can handle just about anything.  | ||
| Crusty |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D09DCZryG2U | ||
| Swordsman |
Hale bop! Dunh dunt duh Hale bop! Dunh dunt duh ...... Oh wait, that's not a Hansen song, is it...? I've only read about 8 posts on this thread, but Ima gonna jump in anyway. I'm with Reg... they can't all be right. My take is that God is beyond human explanation and understanding, and all of these different religions are a part of the same thing. No "this God" or "that God" or "gods"; just this vast, inexplicable force that drives and shapes what we experience as reality, and mankind's pitiful attempt to explain it all with our limited mind. I have a belief system that works for me, but it takes bits and pieces of different mainstream religions and cobbles them together in a way I think makes sense, especially when coupled with what we know of science. I'll tell ya one thing though: if we really do go hang with the Almighty for all eternity, he'd better do something to my head, because after a thousand years or so, I know I'm gonna get bored. I would much prefer a permanent death over an eternity of boredom. ~SM | ||
| Metalrabbit |
Try Matthew 7:13-14 on for size Swordsy, Nice Bike BTW. (Message edited by metalrabbit on February 01, 2010) | ||
| Hex |
takes bits and pieces of different mainstream religions and cobbles them together in a way I think makes sense.. Guess what, Buddhism not only allows this exploration, it encourages it! I would never get bored of breathing. | ||
| Swordsman |
Rabbit, there are several ways that could be taken. I'm assuming your interpretation is that Christianity is the narrow gate (just a guess, since you're quoting scripture!). After pondering those two verses, I think it could be applied another way. The wide gate, thus the easier path, would be to simply fall into a set doctrine prescribed by others and accept their every claim as truth. Very little strain on the brain. The narrow and difficult way would be to examine those claims, study their source, and determine whether or not you can believe in each one. Personally, I'm about 80% Christian, but I've come to believe a few things that don't completely fit within those confines. ~SM | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
What are the other 20% beliefs, if you don't mind. I'm interested. | ||
| Metalrabbit |
I took it the way the Author intended it. I didn't have much trouble when I read it 40 yrs ago. | ||
| Swordsman |
Ft_, I have some very scientific ideas about Heaven, Hell, Jesus' resurrection, etc. So many religions seem to vehemently oppose what science reveals, when God himself is the author of all things scientific. The way I see it, if one's religious beliefs can't coexist with facts, that kinda' blows a gaping hole in the story. I've worked out explanations that I think work well for both sides, but would probably be considered "wrong" by most Christians. Keep in mind, certain groups still want to dispute dinosaurs.  There's also something about being in nature that draws me more than a church congregation ever will. Maybe there's a touch of druid hiding in me somewhere...? Surprisingly, some of the New Age stuff I've read agrees more with science than the mainstream religions. ~SM | ||
| Metalrabbit |
I don't mean to infringe on your response to Ft_ but I notice you are a reasonable man ~SW. Also noticed the words ",when God himself is the author of all things scientific." This is a statement thats not often said by any of the science community. I see it like this, God (actually Jesus) made everything we see, to the infinitely big to the infinitely small. For the most part we are just discoverers of what he has created. But I also believe that he made us like Himself, creative, there is no doubt of that. With that in mind, I believe that all facts are His, and His alone. I believe that is the conclusion of all discoveries by man are drawing to,,wow, somebody really intelligent has put this all together. I call that "The Ultimate Discovery",, I believe thats what this life is really all about. After that revelation has hit you and you have accepted Him,, all His creation is now yours as well. After this life He will provide a body for you that will be eternal. Then all that expanse of the Universe will make sense to you. Its a scientists dream come true for sure,, I can't believe they continue to reject him. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I find that God is orderly. I think the elegance of atomic structure bears this out. The majesty of creation is staggering. I think you'd like this guy's book: Just stop and think | ||
| Aptbldr |
God is in details. Such details, our natural world, present a perfect spiritual library. Free to any man & culture. Free of necessary interpreters. Timeless. | ||
| Hex |
And to think the poor guy just missed Hale Bopp. Just look at what we could have missed. Metal, I finally got your 'joke'. Are you wishing I had committed suicide in 1997 when I instead took this photograph? Funny what I chose to title the print. Maybe it was in reverence to those 39 who died, or did I just call it that by chance? In all these years of confusion, I honestly can't remember myself. Spooky.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven%27s_Gate_%28religious_group%29 | ||
| Metalrabbit |
nah its that we would have missed out on your pleasant insight if you had left with the comet. | ||
| Hex |
I just finished listening to an American Atheist's perspective on KDVS (UCDavis radio). A radio show and podcast about atheism and religious criticism. They're new on the internet, and have only four podcasts on their limited website. I found the debates interesting, informative, and relatively unbiased. Mr. Grumpy and others with critical minds, may get something out of this, I enjoyed the civil debate...: http://anamericanatheist.org/ | ||
| Blake |
Better, and much more enlightening. (Message edited by blake on February 04, 2010) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
and others with critical minds What, non-atheists lack a "critical mind"? That's kind of a pretentious statement. Which mind is more open, the one that is certain that there is nothing more than the physical universe or that there could be more than just what we see, hear, smell, taste, and feel. | ||
| Hex |
Fat, you read my message wrong. Anyone who is interested in religious/atheism debate could enjoy these podcasts with a critical mind. | ||
| Hex |
And, I am in complete agreement with you. I too believe that there is way more than: ...just what we see, hear, smell, taste, and feel. My point is that I do not believe in the Judeo/Christian/Muslim DOGMA made by MAN. For one, there is in my opinion, a collective mind. | ||
| Strokizator |
For one, there is in my opinion, a collective mind. Not surprising at all. The liberal/progressive mindset is all about "the collective" whereas the Judeo/Christian and perhaps others are about a personal relationship with God. Liberalism is a religion. | ||
| Hex |
In your political opinion. A collective mind is also in Hinduism/Buddahism/Jainism. There is no creator, just a GodHead to realize. | ||
| Hootowl |
The Hindus believe that God exists in everyone, just as the Christians do. Namaste literally means "I acknowledge and respect the divine being within you" or words to that effect. | ||
| Hex |
But they do NOT believe there is only one path to 'salvation'. There are in fact infinite paths. | ||
| Hootowl |
Not disagreeing, I just think it's neat that their faith recognizes God in all things. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
But they do NOT believe there is only one path to 'salvation'. There are in fact infinite paths. That belief comes from the statements made by Christ. It's not "my brand is better than your brand". It would be much easier if there were multiple paths. I could then chose the path that best suits me. The choice appears logical, but that choice is an illusion. If there is in fact God, man can not be in communion with Him because of who we are. If we are good enough just the way we are, what is the point. You are seeking enlightenment. How much enlightenment is sufficient? A little, a lot? What happens if you are seeking the wrong enlightenment? What happens if you are born somewhere where classical "enlightenment" isn't possible? Enlightenment is great, but it isn't the path to God. | ||
| Hex |
Hoot, it's not the same god. As I stated before if I were pressed to make a choice I would be a Pantheist. All is god. Not a monotheist. One is god. IMO there is no creator. Just transcendence. From mindless body to bodiless mind. It may take many life times. Or this may be the only one... You are seeking enlightenment. How much enlightenment is sufficient? A little, a lot? What happens if you are seeking the wrong enlightenment? What happens if you are born somewhere where classical "enlightenment" isn't possible? It seems that is the question I will be asking myself. If you are born into a completely repressive society, then I guess you will just have to live and learn and apply your experiences to your next life. The way our first amendment puts it though, I don't think I will have that problem. | ||
| Blake |
"My point is that I do not believe in the Judeo/Christian/Muslim DOGMA made by MAN." What if all religious dogma was not made by man; what if some was truly offered to man by God? |
