| Author | Message | ||
     Theironmaiden22 |
+1 Moxnix That was incredible. Very very very well done. Reminds me of that new Assassins Creed 2's plot. Very cool. | ||
| Jstfrfun |
The bible? written second hand by scribes (people who could write), as told by a man in his opinion, compiled by politicians (of there time), to avoid social melt-down. A pretty good book with a good outline of how we should endeavor to live with each other. But sacred and holy?...I dunno. Everything man makes is flawed. IN MY OPINION | ||
| Blake |
I don't know. Certainly none in WW-I or WW-II. How many Christians and Jews were put to death for their beliefs? A LOT more than in the converse situation. Some portion of the crusades might be chalked up to religious fervor gone wrong and certainly most all the islamist expansionism and butchery. Unless you count atheistic communism and tyrannical despotism as a religion, then I don't see the issue. Atheistic communism/state-ism and just plain brutally greedy tyranny are by far most responsible for the vast, vast majority of human tragedy throughout the history of humanity. | ||
| Swampy |
Social meltdown, I have been thinking alot about that a few years ago. Alot of the legal and religious "thou shalt nots" wether biblical or religious are in place to prevent sociatal meltdown, and to keep people from experiencing all the heartache of little kids running around with two sets of parents and the like. There are some I have been observant of such as not growing facial hair, bans on wire rim glasses, and women wearing skirts which are absolutly ridiculous and unfounded other than trying to broadly interpret scriptural restrictions to back up someones personal belief, usually only to bolster their own pharisitical christian beliefs and helped to develop a classed religious community, those that felt that they were "closer to God" compared to those that would not follow the broadly interpreted scriptural restrictions. (notice I didn't say wrongly, because every person has to decide just where the line they will not cross is) I realize Jesus didn't spend a whole lot of time chastizing the folks who weren't following the pharisees self rightousness. | ||
| Blake |
That which some people choose to believe never ceases to bewilder and astound. It's obvious they've failed to expend the slightest effort towards seeking the truth. A very healthy portion of the New Testament was written first hand by a very learned Jewish scholar who had initially been zealously fighting to exterminate Christianity. A very healthy portion of the Old Testament is basic historical accounts of the Israelis, the Jewish people. Other books are poetry, while others are the personal diaries of men. Seek truth. Short of that, the least we can do is to avoid propagating falsehood. Ever actually read the Bible and seek to understand the context in which it was written? Are any of the objectors to Christianity or religion in general able to muster an estimate of the positive effects and role that religion has played in the history of man? Anyone care to estimate how many Katrina refugees were taken in and looked after by church organizations? Anyone care to estimate how many people are fed every day on account of church organizations? Anyone care to estimate how many people receive medical care ever day on account of church organizations? Anyone? Anyone here have the courage to look for the truth, the whole truth? I dare you. It's way too easy to demonize religion and the churches of man. It's easy to pick up a book critical of a church or religious organization and become disgusted. But if we let that become the entire reality of how we understand the history of the church or religion, we have failed truth. Yes? | ||
| Jpgrego |
I didn't bother to read the whole thread here, just skimmed bits and pieces.... but to those who want to get a true and honest look at the historical accuracy of the Bible, I highly recommend reading "A Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel. It includes in depth looks at the historical events within the Bible and discusses some of the arguments between athiests and christians. | ||
| Theironmaiden22 |
It's easy to demonize other religions because everyone thinks that their religion is THEE religion, and if you don't agree they'll try to cut you down. Look at the Spanish Inquisition (not the Monty Python sketch). The pope pretty much gave them the power to kill or torture people for having a different reasoning towards religion. What about the Incans or Aztecs? The Spaniards did a damn good job at wasting them, they may not have intended it with disease but if they never got that hair up their ass that they have to conquer and convert all people to their religion, who knows what the Incans or Aztecs would be like now. | ||
| Blake |
The Spanish Inquisition was largely the misuse of Religion by corrupt men to achieve their own personal agenda. It in fact was not supported wholesale by the Church. Truth takes some study, but it is out there. It's fun to find it. This is not to say that the Church had never suffered grave corruption itself. I'd never say that! As long as there are men involved, and women too, there will be corruption. | ||
| Aptbldr |
Introduction to the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible), Christine Hayes, Yale http://www.academicearth.org/courses/introduction- to-the-old-testament-hebrew-bible New Testament History and Literature, Dale B Martin, Yale http://www.academicearth.org/courses/new-testament -history-and-literature Free online classes, reading lists & syllabus provided, approx 25 one hour segments each.  | ||
| Rasmonis |
Paul? I've been seeking the truth for sometime now...Read the Bible and Case for Christ along with many other works and went so far as to check out what the major religions (and one or two not so major) had to offer. The more I seek, the more I realize that everything I believe to be the truth for 35+ years is no different than a fiction story. It's a good book, a great book, but it's no case for god. At least not to my satisfaction. I can't tell you how scared I was the first time I spoke "I don't believe Jesus is my Saviour or the son of God" out loud. Liberating is a good way to describe it (reading or writing the words does not count for some reason, you have to say it). I was not struck down, and even managed to walk away from what should have been a fatal accident, with a scrape on my knee. I may be on to something...I have awakened, like Neo in the Matrix, but the real world is quite beautiful still. Great points on the value of church? but not valid as there are just as many non-religious organizations and individuals that have contributed towards the betterment of their fellow man, risked their lives, provided food, shelter, clothing and medical care. An individual need not be religious or spiritual to be kind, just add human. The problem as I see it has more to do with humans' inability to be happy and satisfied with ourselves. We allow jealousy to seep into our hearts, rationalize the need to be selfish and that hurting others is not such a bad thing. We lie to ourselves. Religion and political ideology are mere vehicles by which people abuse their evil (not all, but a significant number do), the lie they tell themselves to obtain self gratification. Then they die, but others learn and so it goes... Thank Cain for that, even if he didn't know what death meant. - Pure fiction to me, as Adam, Eve, Cain, Able and the rest are fictional characters. Imagine what we could accomplish as a race if only, we could learn to work and co-exist without the complexity of religion or self serving ideology. I am hopeful we'll get it right one day, just not in my lifetime. Intelligent design....the chances of life on earth miraculous, hardly. I assure you all, there are thousands, perhaps millions or trillions of earth like planets out there (the known universe is huge and has existed approximately 3 times as long as earth). We're still a young organism in the scope of time...Think about it, dinosaurs roamed the earth for over 150 million years. Humans have been around how long? Homo Sapiens for about 100K years. Our oldest lineage goes back perhaps 6 million years. NOOBs! | ||
| Rasmonis |
For all we know, the existence of god was the first lie. Knowledge of which (used by man) was used for self gain. Just thinking out loud... | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
the landoverbaptist.net link is priceless. that forum (it's all fake) has enough material to keep me entertained for weeks. | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
This is my favorite from that site; (posted by a man) "Friends,an ugly incident occurred this morning in the waiting room at the doctor's office. I signed in, took a seat, and crossed my leg. To my horror, a young woman sitting across from me leered at my sock garter. While I pulled at my pant leg to cover the garter, I could feel the young lady's eyes lustfully staring at my well-toned calf, which was accentuated by a form-fitting dress sock. "Are you done eyeballing me, harlot?" I screamed at the woman. Her shame was so great that she immediately gathered her belongings and made a hasty exit. She later probably gratified herself to the mental snapshot she had taken of my shapely leg."   | ||
| Swampy |
Yeah, I have that happen to me all the time also  | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
Pastor Orders Christian Men to Only Think About Jesus While Masturbating  Freehold, Iowa - The Landover Conference of Deacons last week passed one of the most controversial resolutions of the church's 200-year history. The organization has once again lessened restrictions on self-gratification. All church members know that the controversy on this issue reached a new height last year when Landover lowered the allowable age of masturbation to 65 for recent widowers. The church has revised that policy yet again. "We really had no choice," noted a tired and distraught Pastor Deacon Fred during a news conference held shortly after the decision was reached. "Last month, several middle-aged divorced men challenged the church policy. They claimed that because they can never remarry (since to do so would constitute adultery-Matthew 5:32), and because they cannot have non-marital sex (since fornication ensures eternity in Hell-1 Corinthians 6:9-10), they should at least be allowed to defile their bodies as a consolation. Needless to say, we put very little stock in the words of men who would put their wives away. But they challenged us to find any Bible verse prohibiting masturbation. After 72 hours of searching the Lord's Word, we came up empty-handed, if you'll pardon the expression. We even consulted 17th century Bible scholar, Brother Harry Hardwick, but he, too, could find nothing prohibiting flesh-pulling. Everyone knows that all Landover rules come straight from the Bible. We don't ignore the parts we don't like, as the John 3:16 pseudo-Christians do, nor do we add to the Bible, like those Pope-loving Catholics." The new policy is not without its limitations, however. "While the Bible does not outlaw masturbation, it severely restricts the circumstances under which it may occur," noted Pastor Deacon Fred. The first restriction is that no Landover gentleman will be permitted to reach the stage of ejaculation. "The Bible is very clear that a man's seed is for copulation only," noted Pastor. "In fact, the Bible says that when Onan chose not to copulate and instead released his seed on the ground, God was so angry that he struck Onan dead (Genesis 38:9-10). The last thing we need is some media scandal as reporters click photos of colored janitors removing corpses from Landover restrooms." Recognizing that a few men may err and sin by not stopping in time, the new policy requires all who decide to participate in the act to register with Pastor Deacon Fred. Specially made Tupperware seed-containers will be signed out of his office by Mrs. Watkins who will be keeping a record to guard against overuse. The sinner must catch his mistake in his numbered container before it reaches the ground. All containers are to be returned to Mrs. Watkins within one hour of check-out. The contents will be collected each week in a larger vat and provided to Mary Lou's Christian Salon where it will be used to treat dry, scaly skin. The second restriction is that no man will be permitted to have any sexual thoughts during the process. "The apostles told us repeatedly that Jesus forbids lust, since sex is for baby-making, not anxiety release," continued Pastor. "We are to 'abstain from fleshly lusts' (1 Peter 2:11) and 'flee also youthful lusts' (2 Timothy 2:22), for lust 'bringeth forth death' (James 1:15). And more to the point for those debauched divorcees, Matthew told us that 'whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart' (Matthew 5:28). This means that masturbation of an erect organ can occur only if the erection is naturally-induced, such as by the morning sun or an overfilled bladder." Pastor Deacon Fred then concluded, "The only way to masturbate without lust is to keep your mind on Christ at all times." The new policy instantly drew the ire of countless Landover members. Longstanding church member, Mrs. Judy O'Christian, was incensed. Despite being a woman, Mrs. O'Christian was allowed to speak since the press conference was held outside the chapel. "As co-chairs of the Ladies of Landover Welcoming Committee, Sister Taffy and I have to greet all new church members," she pleaded. "This policy means we will have to destroy our silk gloves every time we shake hands with a male member . . . ah, church member, that is. Halston doesn't sell accessories in six-packs, you know." Pastor Deacon Fred attempted to assuage the ladies' concerns. "This policy will in no way open the floodgates, so to speak. Punishment for violations of the new restrictions will be swift and certain. The Bible says that if a part of our body offends us, we must cut it off (Matthew 5:29-30). Any man found to have engaged in sexual thoughts during the process, or to have reached full fruition without capturing the full emission, will have his organ severed and his preferred hand amputated. And every man will know that when that happens, his destiny is Hell, for as God told us: "He that is wounded in the stones or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord" (Deuteronomy 23:1). Rest assured, God takes no stock in the Satanic adage: "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.". | ||
| Hex |
+2 Rasmonis, I couldn't have put it better, as well as your last post. | ||
| Blake |
"Great points on the value of church? but not valid as there are just as many non-religious organizations and individuals that have contributed towards the betterment of their fellow man, risked their lives, provided food, shelter, clothing and medical care." Seek truth. I do not believe that to be truth. The closest competitor to the Christian good works in the world is by government, which forces under penalty of prison, that people "donate" their income to aid others, thus they are not freely offering charitable works, and those who perform the works are being paid to do so from said coerced funds, again not the same as people voluntarily doing so. Only absent the coercion of government, do you find true charity. Unbelief is liberating? Based on my experience, that sounds more like a result of liberation from judgmental people than an issue of faith. What could be more liberating than knowing that God our creator loves us so deeply that he was willing to suffer and be crucified for our salvation, to wash away all the guilt and sins of the world so that we all might enjoy eternal life in heaven? Please explain where the catch in that is or how that is oppressive to anyone anywhere? (Message edited by blake on January 26, 2010) | ||
| Blake |
Then explain where the founders of America would have justified our "inalienable rights" if not for our creator's expressed intent. | ||
| Blake |
Disbelief is as liberating as disbelievers have demonstrated throughout history, the pre-Christian Roman empire, the Huns, the Ottomans, the Stalinists, the Maoists, the Nazis, the Communists. Disbelief is liberating? History shows the falseness of that with horrific clarity. I'm not a religious person. I try to be a faithful person. I can certainly understand feeling oppressed by a church. I think that there are a lot of misguided church leaders who do a lot of harm. Maybe the ratio is similar to that in the political arena. Regardless, just as the existence of bad politicians is not a valid indictment against the American Constitution, neither is the existence of misguided church leaders a valid indictment against the faith or truth of the Bible. (Message edited by blake on January 26, 2010) | ||
| Liquorwhere |
What could be more liberating than knowing that God our creator loves us so deeply that he was willing to suffer and be crucified for our salvation, to wash away all the guilt and sins of the world so that we all might enjoy eternal life in heaven? Please explain where the catch in that is or how that is oppressive to anyone anywhere? I still don't understand how the Passion and then Crucifixion would somehow open the door to Heaven for the Human Race. Was it closed until that time? And what of the Rebel Armies of Lucifer? Does that play a role in the way the Passion and Crucifixion had to be done? There seems to be so many different interpretations of the words, so many translations and "versions" and depending on which version you were raised with determines your belief. Seems awfully random with so much room for geography and culture to determine what is and what isn't faith. You would think that if it were really the words of one true God, that it would be universally accepted as such, yet even the different sects of Christianity claim the others will not be saved as well as the Muslims that worship the same God and hold Jesus to be a person that brought the word to the world yet was disregarded so Mohammad was compelled in the cave to bring the word again to the pagans of Medina, Jesus who was a Jew, and yet they (muslims) would like nothing more that to wipe the Jews from the Earth. I don't know...seems so arbitrary as well as convenient depending on what YOU want to say it can be justified if you look through the book and find the right turn of a phase. | ||
| Metalrabbit |
yeah and at a time certain the door will be shut and entry will cost you your head. It's easy now gent's and it cost's you nothing. | ||
| Tbenson |
Rasmonis, well said! Religion is injected in your mind, as other thoughts and ideas from your life experiences. Everyone is looking for a way of acceptance rather than earning it. If you claim you believe in God your chances of having something in common is greater. As an example, some in this and the Harley Davidson Communities believe Buell and Harley Davidson as the only worthy motorcycle available, even though there are others proven to the task, with facts! These people force their views and thoughts as law, and try to prove you wrong if they sense you question that, even if you state a proven fact, they argue! If you look at the big picture, this is familiar ground and/or similar behavior characteristics in Religion. Always on the defense willing to defend and inject their own beliefs on you with a closed ear to your thoughts. If you dare go against the grain you will be ridiculed and looked down on! Some choose to just go with the flow and the majority. To me Religion is an excuse for profit and gain, and that has been proven throughout the years with facts too, but will be argued and excused over and over again! If their is a God, I would think he would be looking for the strong willed with leadership qualities as the "Chosen Ones", not a bunch of followers, just saying what I would look for in the fabricated elimination process of life! Common, you are excused for all of your daily sins if you ask for forgiveness, only to repeat the process over and over again? You are not held accountable if your heart is truly with the Lord and Savior? | ||
| Andymnelson |
I think that if a church is preaching things like this, then some people need to find new churches. Here is the video from this weeks message in our church, I challenge you to watch it and learn what God's church is really about: justice, mercy, grace and compassion: Go here, and watch the "God is Just" message: http://www.eaglebrookchurch.com/pages/page.asp?pag e_id=38656 | ||
| Hex |
Thanks, and I just might, in the meantime, this caught my eye: Losing My Religion: A Study of Hebrews Through the centuries, "religion" may have been the greatest counterfeit to a real and rich relationship with God and others.... | ||
| Tbenson |
Thank you Andy, I will watch the videos after work tonight with an open mind. Just because I don't share your beliefs doesn't mean I can't take a look. The ending statements were not Teachings, only my expressions on "Self Claimed Christian's" mentalities I deal with on a daily basis and witness throughout the World today! Not all, but an overwhelming majority. Troy | ||
| Hex |
Just found this: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,195 5636,00.html http://www.nderf.org/ Doctors chronicling Near Death Experiences. I put it here for the interested. | ||
| Blake |
"Religion is injected in your mind, as other thoughts and ideas from your life experiences. " Way to insult all those of faith. I can say from my perspective that my mind was not "injected" with religion. I found my faith relatively late in life and had rejected it prior. That is true for a lot of believers. Take for instance those who have converted under penalty of death from islam to Christianity. I'd say that if you cannot debate without insulting and maligning others for their beliefs, you ought to step away, there is another agenda in play. "As an example, some in this and the Harley Davidson Communities believe Buell and Harley Davidson as the only worthy motorcycle available" Name three.  "To me Religion is an excuse for profit and gain, and that has been proven throughout the years with facts too, but will be argued and excused over and over again! " Wow, the unbelievable arrogance and lack of honesty in that statement is bewildering. Has religion been used by corrupt men for profit and power? Absolutely. Is that what motivates 99.9% of believers? No, not in the least. Trying to paint religion as such, at least wrt Christianity is incredibly dishonest. "If their is a God, I would think he would be looking for the strong willed with leadership qualities as the "Chosen Ones", not a bunch of followers..." Anyone who holds the view that believers are a bunch of weakling followers lacking personal strength of will and resolve obviously hasn't looked at very many believers. Failing to see many believers with strong leadership qualities requires willful ignorance of reality. Let's see, just about all of our Presidents have been believers. Ronald Reagan not a strong leader? Most all of our notable commanding Generals, Admirals, and great men of history have been believers. Most of the kingpins of industry have been and are believers. Most of the great sports figures of history have been believers. I enjoy debate. I don't appreciate people coming here to malign, insult and spread baloney about religious faith and those who hold to it. "Common, you are excused for all of your daily sins if you ask for forgiveness, only to repeat the process over and over again? You are not held accountable if your heart is truly with the Lord and Savior?" Would loving parents excuse the shortcomings of their children, and if they ask sincerely for forgiveness would not loving parents accept them into their home? Even if the children were to disown them, would their parents not still love them? In your mind, God is not as loving, understanding, or generous as human parents? Sincerity matters. What sincere person recognizes their failings and seeks forgiveness for misdeeds, yet makes no effort to avoid repeating the same mistake? None. That is from my own personal experience. (Message edited by blake on January 26, 2010) | ||
| Blake |
Andy, I don't see a "God Is Just" message on that page. | ||
| Rasmonis |
Good point: "Seek truth. I do not believe that to be truth. The closest competitor to the Christian good works in the world is by government, which forces under penalty of prison, that people "donate" their income to aid others, thus they are not freely offering charitable works, and those who perform the works are being paid to do so from said coerced funds, again not the same as people voluntarily doing so. Only absent the coercion of government, do you find true charity." My ability to accept a new reality where Jesus is not the son of god has nothing to do with liberation from judgmental people, but rather beliefs that to me no longer equal salvation. I feel saved too, unburdened, knowing that my destiny is mine, today in my world, my responsibility and guilt free. That makes way more sense to me than the Passion and Crucifixion. Religious ideology has proven to be equally capable of atrocity and horror as the pre-Christian Roman empire, the Huns, the Ottomans, the Stalinists, the Maoists, the Nazis, and Communists. And, it's not over... One thing I believe the Bible has right is that it will take a cataclysmic event as great as that mentioned in Revelations to unite mankind. I wonder if we were to look at all attributes of good vs evil across all belief groups, would there be a proportionate distribution of good and evil acts in each group? If that were the case, what would that mean? Regardless, good discussion, but it's going nowhere, and it never was going to go anywhere anyway. Change is difficult. I recognize everyone's right to believe what they wish and accept we all do not agree. Our differences is what make's life interesting. Be good, kind an loving towards one another and lastly, know and love yourself; appreciate that we share this earth (and thread) and space in time together. I feel privileged to have you all as friends. Man, I sound like a Hippie! RIDE SAFE!!! Hope to see 'yall out this year. Going to the 1125R thread for a while... | ||
| Tbenson |
Blake, I don't know how you twisted all of that into what I posted, but good job! Was it just because of the word "injected" that started your rant? If you would please read my earlier post again, I clearly stated this was also from my own personal experience. "Name three". Are you serious??? LOL!!! I will give you this, you proved true to several of my points with your post, thank you! I can and do respect others beliefs, ideas, and thoughts (maybe you could give it a try yourself sometime), until they close their eyes and ears to others. Best of luck, Troy If anyone else was offended by what I posted, I sincerely apologize! Regardless of what Blake tried to make it sound like, that was seriously not my intent! Just sharing my own thoughts and experiences! |
