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Benm2
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 09:24 am: | 
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Note: Japanese made cars are exempt from the recall.
http://www.kyw1060.com/Toyotas-Made-in-Japan-Not-u nder-Recall/6232349
The "Japanese" cars that are being recalled are made in the US and/or Canada.
Note also - look up the ratio of CEO compensation between Toyota and GM, then look at their profit track record. Keep this in mind when you want to start complaining that Toyota's profits from their US plants don't stay in the US. (hint-there are orders of magnitude difference).
Toyota as a company has been THE example for continuous improvement & production of quality product. They are not perfect, nor is any other car company, but they have set the bar on a consistent basis. |
Swordsman
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 10:11 am: |
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Overall, personal experiences are a poor gauge of whether or not an entire product line is good or bad. EVERY company makes lemons. One bad Bonneville doesn't make GM total junk. Likewise, my problem-ridden '08 Mustang doesn't mean Court's new Ford's are time bombs, and Toyota's recent issue doesn't mean they're bad from now on.
And seriously, you're comparing today's American cars to ones made nearly 20 years ago... that's kind of a silly logic, no?
About the SS, that seems to be a common sentiment. Fantastic engine trapped in a chassis that handles like a cement truck. I didn't mind the ergonomics so much, but the blind spots are awful. But then again, Toyota's been catching hell lately for blind spots as well. Their entire lineup seems to be evolving in a way that leaves huge sheets of metal on the back corners.
(Message edited by Swordsman on January 29, 2010) |
Guell
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 10:15 am: |
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Gotta say im siding with Jasonnennig on this. I made the mistake of buying american and its been nothing but issues. The japanese trucks and cars ive had havnt. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 11:10 am: |
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Toyota with press support act like they are the first company to have ever stopped sales because of a recall, and they are lauded for it. Buell did it every time. |
Swordsman
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 11:34 am: |
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Um... since BMC no longer exists, why do we still have Anony status...? I had assumed there would no longer be a need. Curious.
Anyhoo, could be because of the sheer number of units they are having to put on hold. If you can say one thing of Toyota, they're BIG. If Smart had to do the same thing, probably wouldn't be making the same waves. Just a guess.
~SM |
Spiderman
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 12:01 pm: |
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SM,
I just emailed Blake about that
(Message edited by spiderman on January 29, 2010) |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 12:09 pm: |
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Bought my first new car in 1985. Pontiac Trans Am. Sold that in 1994 after about 90K miles simply because I needed the room offered from a mini-van. Bought a 1994 Chevy Lumina mini-van. Traded that after about 150k miles for my current 2003 Chevy Venture that now has 90K miles. Still going strong with no major problems.
I won't by another GM simply because of the bail out money they took. That was just plain wrong.
If I had to buy right now it would be between a VW TDI wagon or something from Ford. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 12:29 pm: |
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This thread exploded a bit since my last visit. SM/Spidey, that Annony is on the good list, and can post annony for whatever reason he/she wants, assuming they aren't being a dick in a thread about someones dog that just died. 
Annony has their reasons for posting like that, so we will continue to let them. |
Swordsman
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 01:28 pm: |
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Oh, I've no concern about keeping the Anony mask. I just thought it existed for the safety of the Buell employees.
Back to topic, I REALLY like what Ford's doing right now, but I wouldn't buy another one simply because the local service departments are a bunch off crooked dimwits. I've yet to find one within 3 counties that I can trust, or that has a clue what they're doing. Having to wrench on my bike is one thing... it's a toy. I can't afford to take the same risks with my daily driver.
~SM
(Message edited by Swordsman on January 29, 2010) |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 01:56 pm: |
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Quality of service usually has little to do with from the manufacturer. I have totally failed to find a good GM service department anywhere near us. I even had the district service representative on the phone once to discuss the problems I've had. He asked exactly where I lived so that he could recommend a good dealership. When I told him where I was is simply apologized for being unable to help me. True story.
After buying one of my cars they gave me a coupon for a free first oil change so that I could get a feel for how good their service was. I wound up having a discussion involving me, my salesman, the service manager, the tech, and porter about how much money was taken out of my change holder! Not IF it was taken, but HOW MUCH! It's not like I'm really concerned it they took $1.50 or 75 cents. (That really was the discussion!) The fact that the tech admitted to taking 75 cents and wasn't fired right in front of me was astounding. My guess is that someone else (probably the porter) took the other 75 cents having learned that this is acceptable conduct. Supposedly nobody else had access to the car, but I know that it would be easy for anyone to slip in and sneak a few quarters while the car is in the shop. Needless to say I will never enter their shop again. |
Benm2
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 07:49 pm: |
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quote:Toyota with press support act like they are the first company to have ever stopped sales because of a recall, and they are lauded for it. Buell did it every time.
And you should be lauded as well. |
Garyz28
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 08:25 pm: |
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I've had very good luck with American cars. Most of them I have owned had 100,000 when I bought them, and then I put another 100,000 on them. I bought a new Blazer in '87, Put 300,000 miles on it, replaced it with a new Tahoe which now has over 200,000 on it with no major repairs.
I'm about to replace the Tahoe. This time I'm going to buy a Ford Expedition. I've always had Chevy's in the past, but GM just pissed me off too much when they took that bail out money. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 11:00 pm: |
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Anonymous, the difference is, while Buell stopped production to figure out what was going on, Toyota got a nastygram from the feds to stop. They would keep churning them out if legally possible.
quote:GM just pissed me off too much when they took that bail out money.
Why? Banks are broke and can't lend them money, and GM is repaying their loans on schedule. Chrysler did similar back in the 80's, and ended up repaying them ahead of schedule.
Also, many forget that Toyota has taken bail out money in Japan too.
quote:Overall, personal experiences are a poor gauge of whether or not an entire product line is good or bad. EVERY company makes lemons. One bad Bonneville doesn't make GM total junk.
Bingo.
quote:oyota's recent issue doesn't mean they're bad from now on.
Yes it does! 
quote:About the SS, that seems to be a common sentiment. Fantastic engine trapped in a chassis that handles like a cement truck.
Unfortunately safety requirements made it heavy, just like all the other vehicles in its class, yet it is still lighter than the Challenger. GM is currently working on reducing the weight for the mid cycle refresh.
quote:blind spots are awful
This starting to become a problem in all cars, the crash tests are getting to the point that they pretty much need to survive getting hit by a train, and as result more and more metal is needed for the stronger bodies. The thicker pillars make hiding airbags easier though. |
Mr_grumpy
| | Posted on Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 04:59 am: |
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It's a slightly different (oh alright, vastly different) problem here. The competition in Europe is much fiercer than anything you get in the US, so we're spoiled for choice. Customers will not stand for being sold crap at ridiculous prices. Cheap crap they'll accept.
Witness, Chevrolet the only way they could make any market penetration in Europe was to rebadge Daewoo's from Korea.
The nice Fords you are now getting in the US, Focus etc, are originally European developed models. We have a Focus C-Max & I have to admit I was a little wary when I bought it as I'd not had a Ford for many years due to bad experiences with "Dagenham Dustbins". I have to say I'm extremely pleased with it, it's spacious economical, comfortable, quiet & well made. What more could one ask for.
Made in Germany at the Koln plant.
One of the greatest stumbling blocks is the inability / unwillingness of the US & the EU to accept each other's safety standards. I think if agreement could be reached we'd see a huge leap forward in build quality, purely due to the fact that manufacturers would have no place to hide.
As to electronic control, what's the problem? we're quite happy to get in an aeroplane & fly for hours & hours miles above the ground, all controlled electronically.
I'm sorry to hear a law enforcement officer lost his life due to a sticking throttle, but that's Darwinism in action. If he had the time to call 911 at 120mph why the hell didn't he just turn the key back a notch & coast to the side.
You can't blame that stuff on the technology, I've had throttles stick open due to a frayed cable & even an iced up cable, no operating system of any description can ever be 100% perfect.
I get to see & drive many of the Peugeot / Citroen models before they come out as I haul for them most of the time & I've a bud who's one of the chiefs in the special vehicles unit, that produces the versions for people like the government & the Police.
Check out the new Citroen DS3, it's a jewel, direct competition to BMW's Mini.
http://www.ds3.citroen.com/uk/ |
Sifo
| | Posted on Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 09:21 am: |
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Why? Banks are broke and can't lend them money, and GM is repaying their loans on schedule. Chrysler did similar back in the 80's, and ended up repaying them ahead of schedule.
It's that the government stepped in and illegally took money from bond holders and stock holders giving money to the unions. |
Garyz28
| | Posted on Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 11:03 am: |
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Why? Banks are broke and can't lend them money, and GM is repaying their loans on schedule. Chrysler did similar back in the 80's, and ended up repaying them ahead of schedule.
Ford was in the same situation and they didn't take the money. |
Johnnylunchbox
| | Posted on Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 11:11 am: |
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Grumpy said "I'm sorry to hear a law enforcement officer lost his life due to a sticking throttle, but that's Darwinism in action. If he had the time to call 911 at 120mph why the hell didn't he just turn the key back a notch & coast to the side."
I believe it had one of those proximity key fob deals. No key to speak of. Still, he could have taken it out of gear I suppose. |
Milt
| | Posted on Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 11:17 am: |
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Ford was smart enough to amass huge amounts of cash before he feces hit the fan.
GM, on the other hand, was incapable of determining their daily cash position to with a half a billion dollars. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 11:43 am: |
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I believe it had one of those proximity key fob deals. No key to speak of. Still, he could have taken it out of gear I suppose.
I'm not familiar with this case but there should be a way to turn the engine off. As you pointed out putting it in neutral is always a possibility. Even just standing on the brakes will overpower the engine on most cars. The brakes certainly should have kept him from ever getting anywhere near 3 digit speeds and give him time to consider other options. This really sounds like a case where he panicked and froze. |
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