| Author | Message | ||
     Dentguy |
Dentguy heres the info if it make you feel all warm and fuzzy. Don't need warm and fuzzy, just looking for info. That's why I asked the question. Thanks for the info and the list doesn't surprise me. But by reading your post's it seems that no mater what I or anybody says you will hate pitbull's Don't think I said I hated Pit Bulls. I said I didn't care for them. what ever you are entitled to your opinion just don't try to force it on anybody else. Didn't try to force my opinion on anyone. In both my posts I stated that "I" don't care for them. That is how "I" feel and didn't suggest how anyone else should feel or that they should feel any differently about them. That is the only opinion I gave. Everything else in my 2nd post was from 2 personal situations and a website. I did state this If some of you have Pit Bulls that you are happy with, that's great. Is that a problem? (Message edited by dentguy on December 31, 2009) | ||
| Dentguy |
I'd be interested to know what those breeds are,... See the first link I posted. Most of those "canine homicides" state the breed of dog. Here is the link http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/danger.htm#homicid es ...and how responsible their owners were with training, discipline, Don't know. ...and keeping the dogs within a confined non-public area. Most of the areas of attack are listed with the incidents in that first link. Here is another link with some numbers. http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20t o%202006%20Clifton.pdf Hope that helps. | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
 Personally the link doesn't look very credible. There are no numbers listed for AMSTAFFs or Bull terriers which again, means that the author most likely can't tell the difference or simply doesn't care to. If I don't bother to differentiate between any dog under 15 lbs, and just group any breed in that category together, I bet their stats would look pretty aggressive. Which one is the pit bull? Or are they all "pit bulls"? Pic #1 Pic #2 Pic #3 (Message edited by blake on January 06, 2010) | ||
| Boney95 |
Good links Dent! A quote from dogbitlaw.com: "It is a sad fact of life that the pit bull was created by mankind to kill other small animals. Like it or not, that is what the dog was bred for, and it remains the essence of the dog. Any one pit bull might be sweet to its owner, but is still "hard-wired" to kill other small animals. For that reason, pit bulls are dangerous to people because they have the in-born propensity to attack other people's pets, which often results in a redirected attack against the other people, or a bite to another person." I find this to be very true. | ||
| Prof_stack |
A couple of years ago a young punk brought a pit bull to the off-leash area and just smiled when his dog went around intimidating all the dogs, getting them to submit. One young female rottweiler ignored the pit and got taken down and chewed upon in the ear. The people there somehow broke it up and the rottie was unscathed. The punk walked out with his pit bull, both somehow proud as can be. That kind of stuff is why certain breeds are outlawed in some cities. | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
"That kind of stuff is why certain breeds are outlawed in some cities." Breed-specific legislation is a pile of horse----. Cities some times pass these laws without the proper authority as well, just to intimidate owners. I live in Del City, OK which had a pit bull ban a few years ago despite the fact that OK state law specifically prevents local governments from passing BSL. Every time the city handed a pit bull owner a ticket they were sued, and lost on a regular basis. Didn't take long for that law to disappear  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I think a better law would be one that provides prison time for dog owners when their animals attack people. Attack a person and the person lives = Attack with a deadly weapon Attack the person and the person lives = Manslaughter | ||
| Milt |
Rats were a major problem for Irish farmers, so they bred 'terriers' to kill those rats. I believe they are the only breed bred specifically for killing. All terriers are hardwired to do certain things: 1)chase little critters 2)dig through anything to catch said critters 3)shake their prey in a stereotypical fashion None of these behaviors are particularly dangerous unless improperly exploited by an evil human. | ||
| Joshinga |
I read I book about raising a well behaved pit before I got one and something of an experiment was referenced in the book that I found interesting and it says allot to the propensity for society to pigeonhole all dog breeds in to one lump sum. Example if a dog bits someone it’s a pit till proven otherwise. But anyway back to the quote. It was said that I small child was bitten in a neighborhood and the dog that did the damage was If I remember correctly a lab or something similar NOT a pit bull. The women in question called the local news outlet and told the story.......No response. Now the lady thought what if? So she called back a few minutes later and said it was a pit-bull that attacked. Within 20 minutes the news crews were on seen interviewing people about the pit-bull attack. Now that does have a bit of a lean towards the fact the news outlets tend to go for what gets ratings. But if people wouldn't always assume that the attacker was a pit and actually do so digging you might find that most "pit-bull" attacks are not really pits at all but mixes with a small amount of pit or just flat out not pits at all they were just unfortunate enough to look like a pit. So before you let yourself or someone around you assume the dog was a pit find out for sure. I will try to find the book I referenced. (Message edited by joshinga on December 31, 2009) | ||
| Spatten1 |
Dentguy: Great link. Very staightford information. (Message edited by spatten1 on December 31, 2009) | ||
| Bishopjb1124 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Pit_Bull_Ter rier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Staffordshir e_Terrier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rottweiler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perro_de_Presa_Canari o | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
"The Centers for Disease Control said that breed-specific approaches to the control of dog bites do not address the issue that many breeds are involved in the problem and that most of the factors contributing to dog bites are related to the level of responsibility exercised by dog owners. Furthermore, tethered dogs are more likely to bite than untethered dogs." Appearance The American Pit Bull Terrier is a medium-sized dog. It has a short coat and smooth, well-defined muscle structure. Its eyes are round to almond shaped, and its ears are small to medium in length and can be natural or cropped. The tail is thick and tapers to a point. The coat is glossy, smooth, short, and slightly coarse and can be any color.[1] The breed ranges from a height of about 18 to 22 inches (45.7 cm-56 cm) at shoulders, and weighs between 35 and 65 lbs (16 to 27 kg).[2] Temperament The APBT is a breed that is loyal to friends and family, and is generally friendly towards strangers. People have been known to be afraid of them because of their bad reputations. Nonetheless, an APBT can be a very congenial pet as they have a general love of people. They do exhibit a higher percentage of dog aggression than some other breeds, and a very high prey drive toward small animals. Proper training can make the dog obedient and have a high desire to please, and socialization at an early age is a must. Without proper guidance, though, the breed can become dominant and destructive. According to the UKC, "aggressive behavior toward humans is uncharacteristic of the breed and highly undesirable." A study done by the CDC showed that "pit bull type" dogs accounted for the majority of dog related fatalities in the United States between 1979 and 1996, though the study admits some limitations in its data.[7] The American Temperament Testing Society shows a pass percentage of 84.3% for American Pit Bull Terriers.[8] Still, a firm, even hand and early obedience training are best. They generally have a lot of energy and high prey drive ; they need exercise and stimulation in order to channel their energy properly and not become frustrated, bored, and destructive.[9] | ||
| Bads1 |
Phillip, What are you getting at with the appearances. They are terrier's and of the ones you have listed they all carry much the same temperment by nature. As far as your breed there is so much cross breeding between them most people can't or would know what they are looking at anyhow. | ||
| Boltrider |
I think most of us are in agreement on this. All dogs were bred at some point to perform a specific purpose. Pit bulls can be great dogs, but they are equal parts tool and family pet. When they are misused or the owner is just plain ignorant, they can do real damage. Of course I can say the exact same thing about many other breeds, so this argument can go in circles.
My buddy's GF has a rat terrier and it's a fantastic dog. I just might get one myself. (Message edited by boltrider on December 31, 2009) | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
I'm trying to show that the group of breeds that makes up "pit bulls" has a lot working against them. First of all, random thug #1 wants to look cool so he gets the biggest pit bull he can find (which means it's not a pit since they are actually pretty small dogs) and then ignores the poor thing. It sits on a chain, never gets attention, and the first chance it has to get loose, it just goes crazy and reverts back to hunting other animals - exactly what it was bred to do. It's not the dog's fault - it's the owner's fault. Then you get people compiling statistics that are either uneducated, apathetic, or both. Every "pit bull" type breed gets lumped together which makes every dog attack caused by random thug #1 look exponentially more common than it is. This topic is just one of those things that gets under my skin. I've got a (real) pit bull - registered APBT. He looks like a muscular lab and nobody is ever scared of him until they hear the words pit bull. This summer, the neighbor kids were in my driveway playing with Timmy while I was working on a bike. They started to get in the way so I slyly mentioned that he was a pit bull loud enough for their mother to hear it. Didn't take long for mom to save kids from the big vicious pit bull It's just ignorant..  btw, I can't stop going back and staring at that pic of the AMSTAFF. Those eyes are amazing. (Message edited by pkforbes87 on December 31, 2009) | ||
| No_rice |
my personal belief... almost everything has to do whit how they were raised. a friend of mine got a pure breed pit pup years ago. had it for a few year and it was a sweetheart. always played "rough" with my rott's english mastiff and wolf. but never to the point of drawing blood from any of them or vice versa. long story short, he was getting divorced and had no way to keep the dog. sold it to a guy we worked with. ends up the only reason the guy wanted that dog was because it was a pit and he wanted an attack dog or some such thing. well needless to say next time i saw that dog a few months later it was insane. my friend that had raised it couldnt even get near it. it tried to attack everything within reach. the new owner thought it was great, he just kept poking at it and smaking it with a stick with my friend and i standing right there. my friend told him repeatedly to knock it off, the guy didnt, my friend dropped him. he ended up calling the cops on they guy with the dog and the dog got put down. he was sad about it, but still thought it was better then the life it was now living. i have lived with some of the most dangerous shit you ever want sharing your living room with you. wolves/cougar/bear i dont regret it. i got tore up once by one of my wolves. and i knew my odds with that one were slim in the first place. he was old and not raised by me, or with the kind of interaction i raised my other wolves with. was only going to have him and the female long enough to get a liter and sell them again. didnt work out. but i have had my wolf arctic a loooong time. cant remember how long but since before my daughter and shes 10. i trust him with my life, obviously i guess. i have had a hand full of pits over the years too, while taking in neglected dogs. some were in rough shape, but just seemed to need someone to trust in again... | ||
| Bads1 |
Sounds like more a wolf mix. My buddy owns a wolf. Its bred to a percentage to be legal. I was told by him 90%. Thing is Wolfs aren't mean by nature. They will attack small prey. Only bigger things when they are in numbers. My buddy's wolf like the ones in our Zoo and others like it I see. They pace back and forth never taking a eye off you but keeping a distance from you. If you walk towards him he moves away. To tell you the truth he'd have to be threatened or cornered to be mean. This wolf is outside 24-7 on a farm. This one is his 3rd one. The first one lived 20 years. He buys them off a Indian reservation up North Wisconsin. Wolf's..... I've seen a few..... never mean. More shy and reserved. The eyes don't come off of you more because of curiousity. | ||
| No_rice |
exactly about the eyes! thats what freaks everyone out. looks right through you and never makes a sound, just paces in a half circle checking you out. in all those years i could count the amount of times hes made a sound on my fingers. yes he is a small percentage mix. blood test showed he was 3/4 plus % wolf. he is small though. i got him and he had been hit by a car and had heart worm very very bad. they tried to get me to put him down and i wouldnt give up on him. he just looked like he needed someone. the doc said he would have been dead in probably a matter of days because if the heart worm. all the damage when he was young stunted his growth. hes a stout lil bastard though. half the size and has been able to back down every dog ive ever had and never even make a noise at them. one of the few times he has gotten vocal he thought someone was hurting my daughter. she was barely crawling and he stood over top of her growling and showing his teeth at a girl he had known for ever, because she made a loud bang on the floor near my daughter, and alexus screamed her lungs out. he was making damn sure she didnt touch do anything to hurt her. as soon as i let him know it was ok he went back and layed down though. well after he looked at me for a minute like i didnt know what i was talking about lol | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
Tim, the story about that wolf and your daughter is exactly why I like having my pit around He's smart and loyal enough to pay close attention to me before making any rash decisions. There have been a handful of times he went into defense mode so to speak, but has always looked to me to give him the yay or nay. I was visiting my sister last summer, the first time Timmy had ever been around her or her 3 yr old daughter. I was sleeping on the couch, Timmy on the floor next to me. Late at night my brother-in-law abruptly walked into the house wearing a motorcycle helmet - Timmy immediately ran next to my niece and sister, and stared down my brother-in-law until I called him off. That's it - no rash decisions, no unprovoked or ill-advised attacks. After being around my niece for only two days, Timmy knew that she was the most defenseless person in the house and the most important to protect. Such amazing animals.. Pretty good link here about different "pit" breeds and their traits. (Message edited by pkforbes87 on December 31, 2009) | ||
| No_rice |
i just saw a guy wearing a great shirt, "i handle wild animals for a living. if i am running, keep up" lol i thought that was good | ||
| Glen |
LOL that was a good one. pitbulls, like Buells, are not for everyone. some would say that sportbikes are dangerous, should they be outlawed? BSL is BS!!!!! | ||
| Froggy |
Haha I saw a similar shirt, but it was for a bomb squad technician. | ||
| Dabuell |
I own a pit bull and I have him for home protection as well as companion. I use the same care as I do for my shotgun because he to is a weapon and needs to be treated as such. I do not take him to dog parks and he is never not leashed or chained or in the house. If a owner is careless with their pit bull then they should be accountable but I should not be held accountable for someone else's actions only my own. The breed is very dangerous and needs to be respected. | ||
| Bads1 |
The breed is very dangerous and needs to be respected. I don't agree with that at all. The breed isn't dangerous. Untrained dogs in general are dangerous. | ||
| Blake |
Anyone here ever watch National Geographic Channel's television show "The Dog Whisperer"? I have learned a lot about dog behavior from Mr. Milan. He is amazing in his understanding of dog and even other animal behavior. I think he'd put a lot of professional human psychologists to shame as well. In dog behavior terms balance is key. I think some here would be surprised what they might learn from him as well. Aggressive behavior in a dog is rarely if ever the dog's fault. Ignorant owners who don't know enough to establish themselves as the "pack leader(s)" with appropriate Rules, Boundaries, and Limitations, are the problem, especially when they own large strong animals that are capable of inflicting serious injury. Someone stated that "its in the pits nature to destroy any other animal competitor to their domain." In that you have unwittingly echoed the problem. No dog should be allowed to view any property as "their domain." They must ALL be well trained to submit that their human/humans owns/own the territory, that their human/humans is/are the alpha pack leader/leaders, that they are on the bottom of the pecking order wrt the human contingent of their "pack". All dogs, but especially aggressive or insecure/anxious dogs NEED regular structured pack activity like a formal (dog heeling) walk on a leash, or another structured exercise or formal training regime (like fetching/retrieving, where the dog doesn't fetch until commanded to do so), free play doesn't count. The point is that the dog must be most focused on direction from the pack leader(s), his human(s), not his own whims. Walking a dog off leash would qualify as structured pack activity, IF and only if the dog is keyed on the human and heeling and obeying all commands. Walking a dog off leash while tossing a ball around is fine too if you can control the dog 100%. It's just doesn't qualify for structured pack activity. It is more free play. On the topical issue, allowing a dog to run at will onto a neighbor's property is absolutely unacceptable. So was the kennel owner's response. I'd say that you are even. No harm, no foul. Why not acknowledge that and work towards a positive relationship based on shared enthusiasm for your animals. You might can make something good and positive come out of this if you can see your way to dropping the confrontational attitude. The first step is to acknowledge that you too were in the wrong and that your neighbor indeed has a valid grievance. Be the bigger man. It's a wonderful feeling to turn angst and confrontation into shared respect and maybe even friendship. Go for it! What is not surprising is that the "Pit Bulls" were not crazed killers. On some of the other comments here... It is absolutely complete and utter nonsense that all male dogs will attack any animal that enters the property where they live. Dogs typically fight other animals over dominance issues (see previous comments on that above). They also respond to the chasing prey instinct. If you own a dog or have a negative view of large powerful breeds, or even just "Pit Bulls", please watch The Dog Whisperer on the National Geographic channel. New episodes are on Fridays I think. Our DVR is set to record the series. The The Dog Whisperer is truly one of the best productions on television bar none. (Message edited by blake on January 06, 2010) | ||
| Hex |
Here's my wolf pack:  Titan is Malamute which is very close to wolf. He entertains himself when I'm busy by collecting acorns and tossing them to chase. When he's playing by himself, he reminds me of the North American gray wolfs on the nature shows on TV. I take Titan to Dog Park when it's warm. After I got him from the shelter two years ago, we would go to dog park 4x week for about an hour. He changed so much for the better socializing with other dogs including one of his best mates, Mary Jane a pit. She doesn't scare me at all, but I have noticed that a lot of other dog owners are afraid of her when ever she plays ruff--pun intended. It is interesting to watch each dog/person or dog/dog relationship unfold. If you show fear to them, they will act accordingly. | ||
| Xb12xmike |
I used to watch ceasar but I like that Victoria Stilwell better. (It's me or the dog) She can train me anytime.  | ||
| Blake |
She may be pretty, but she is way off the mark when it comes to dog behavior. I'd not recommend her methods or philosophy to anyone who is interested in properly integrating a large possibly aggressive dog into their family. Example from her web site: So what can you do if your dog jumps on people when they come through the door? She doesn't understand dog psychology. I doubt that she would have much luck with the really hard cases, the "red zone" aggression that Cesar handles so incredibly well. Reinforcing good behavior is a vital part of leading a pack, but when it comes to aggressive or fearful/anxious dogs, positive reinforcement only will fail to yield a happy, balanced, well-behaved dog. | ||
| Blake |
On jumping dogs, from Cesar Milan... http://www.cesarsway.com/tips/problembehaviors/jum ping-on-guests Jumping on Guests | ||
| Spatten1 |
Caesar is great. One thing his show has taught me is how many piss poor dog owners there are. I had friends with a pit mix that they would not physically discipline. Only "positive reinforcement." Very kind, and naive. It would bite anyone that took a toy away from it or got near it while eating. It attached a baby sitter and the female owner. It was finally put to sleep. Problem is that aggressive dogs, unchecked by a decent owner, are dangerous, and unnecessary. Plenty of non-aggressive breeds to choose from that make great pets. Bad dog owner screw it up for everyone, but there are tons of bad dog owners out there. |
