| Author | Message | ||
     Just_ziptab |
"Stupid Question: What's that button on the right side of AR-15s back by the stock and up by what would be the iron sights?"
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| Bikertrash05 |
Cecil1, that would be a 512. And I sold the 3x magnifier. | ||
| Whatever |
Um, sorry to dissapoint, but if you need a gun to be manly there might be an issue... I know it was a joke, but just sayin... | ||
| Aesquire |
Nor do you need a gun to be womanly. The question was, "Is it manly..." The answer is yes. Unless you have some hangup. That's not my problem. I don't even feel more manly with a Bigger gun, just feel more recoil.  But, you're right, if you need a gun to feel manly, it's an issue. Same with a 1205cc motorcycle, you ride it because it's fun. I hope. | ||
| Augustus74 |
Bikertrash - nice piece, i wish NY let us have more then 10 round mags! ironmaiden - like the government started out with no restrictions on gun ownership, there never were rules on car ownership. As some don't like catalytic converters, some don't like restrictions on firearms. | ||
| Joel9 |
i'm sure everyone who is interested already knows what a plr looks like. but just in case, here's a pic. of a stripped down plr(no hand guard, 10 rnd mag etc.  | ||
| Nm5150 |
Looks better with a 30 round MAGAZINE and also kind of acts like a vertical grip when firing.(I hate it when folks call a magazine a clip  Cavedug | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Cars and catalytic converters aren't protected rights under the Constitution | ||
| Methed |
Geez, didn't expect this kind of interest/response/stomping on my 'manliness'! Freakin' sick though. I know that there are better routes for protection, and of course for hunting, but being of lesser means and an understanding that I can only own one cool 'anything' this seems like a good setup. I'm with Char--if it's about manning-up to a gun or something else, it might be time for some therapy. For me, this firearm is a slick combination of what I would want in a weapon: - accuracy (longer barrel, nice pattern at 100y) - practicality (available, affordable ammo) - concealability (not that I have the need to do so, but I really just want to express my right to do so whilst I can) - convenience (small size, can be packed-in on canoeing, hiking, motorcycle trips) - pragmatic (one tool, many uses) - uniqueness (look at the bloody thing!) While I get that 'protection' means different things to different folks, but my concern isn't as much human home-invaders as it is regarding wild mammals. Since moving back up north near where I grew up, the mountain lion, timberwolf, and bear population has exploded and we've had some 'almost' incidents--think a cat paw print six inches across fifty yards from your front door. Like I mentioned before, I've never been able to start a collection of anything. As much as I'd love to have a garage full of motorcycles, it just isn't written in my pages. It was with this understanding that a Buell, a Uly specifically, became my ultimate choice in a motorcycle, and similarly why I'm looking at the aforementioned. How often do you find a small company producing a technologically advanced mechanism with an approachable price-point that happens to also be wicked reliable? Sure some can buy three to eight different tools for different purposes, but I'm traveling light through this life and I'm determined to enjoy the ride with as little encumbrance as possible. Thanks for the input everyone. Not sure what I'll end up with, but it will likely be something along these lines. | ||
| Sifo |
Anti-American my ass. I'm simply stating I see no use in any weapon designed for the battlefield at home. Sure they look good on the wall, hellish conversation pieces, etc... I'd just as soon show testosterone riding steel and fire than shooting steel and fire. To each their own. Consider that no one makes their home on the battle field. You can find your home to be a battlefield without any action on your part though. It is naive to think that it can't happen here in the US. Our founding fathers knew of this possibility. That is why we have the 2nd amendment to the Constitution... "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." How can "a well regulated militia" be maintained if military style weapons are not available to the citizens? Reading /i{The Federalist Papers} it is made clear that the founders of the Constitution drew a clear difference between a militia and a standing army. The argument that we now have a standing army doesn't change the intent of the founders. If anything it makes the 2nd amendment that much more important. To speak to Methed's question... You say it's for personal protection, mostly from wild animals. No need to shot 100 yards for that, so I don't know that you really need a longer barrel. Depending on the animals that concern you I would be more concerned with the stopping power. I'm no expert in this area, but I didn't think that stopping power was the strong point of the .223 round. I would guess that the correct choice of bullet will make it a reasonable choice though. Cool looking piece! | ||
| Cityxslicker |
What are you looking to do with it? Its a bit too big to pack, and for close quarter, its the wrong caliber. There is a reason the teams use the HK for inside structures for CQB. For stopping power I would prefer the 308, and if I am doing that, then I want more barrel and a stock so I plink at range. I dont want that as a choice for in close. If you are looking for something that levels the distance, and says stfu , 12 gauge AWOTS, six round, 5 in the carrier and swivel carrier to extend the tripod. If you cant solve it in 11 shots with a 12 gauge, you are over your head anyway. For pack and carry I like the five shot 38/357 snubby w/o hammer. Never fails, small enough to conceal easy, big enough to stop a mansize target. I think you need to take a look at the threat level and reprioritize your choice accordingly. now for corn cream can killin... that lil biatch at full auto would be fun | ||
| Jasonnennig |
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| Sifo |
  Walton Creel .22 Cal  | ||
| Hootowl |
...children kill children You could make the same argument with drain cleaner, and you'd be just as wrong. | ||
| Aesquire |
Method, I think you'd be better off with one of kel-tec's folding stock .223's. The Su-16C for example, would give you better ballistics, nearly as easy to pack, and much better accuracy from a field position. This is my opinion, I can't hit with that type of gun from a duelist position. I think the .223 is marginal for deer, ( with a good shot & the right bullets,Ok,, but on the borderline ) and way too small for Grizzly. Black bear? Not my choice. Cougar? really iffy, but workable. Wild dogs-wolves, good to light. Optimum for my area, ( black bear, coyote, and the DEC keep denying that big cats are back ) is a Good revolver in at least .357, or a pistol in at least .40 S&W or .357 sig. For the need to reach out, ( since you will not be shooting bear at long range without a bear hunting license, Self defense on bear is a close range thing. ) on varmints, all species, a .223 is fine. | ||
| X5thxgearxfreak |
5-7 for close quarters, or if you're not affected by weight, use a .50 Desert Eagle. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Stopping a bear ? wtf, 12 gauge ballistic slugs, in rapid succession. The AWOTS is similiar in concept to the PLR 16, it is a shot gun reciever that was never a full length weapon, but built from the origin of being a small compact shot gun, some states call the SBS The onlything I would prefer more would be a street sweeper with slugs, a small stock and a barrel forward grip. | ||
| Aesquire |
You can handle anything in this hemisphere with a Bushmaster .450. But it doesn't meet his declared needs. Ammo too expensive. A shotgun will handle pretty much anything too, with proper ammo selection, but I'm not sure what Cityxslicker is talking about. Got a link? | ||
| Aesquire |
Sifo, that's amazing art. I'd like to try an Auto 12, ( not sure of brand name change ) a full auto shotgun with drum mags, and a "continuous recoil" system that never hits the back of the receiver, softening recoil. I'd get the semi-auto only version, of course, but it looks like a sure fire answer to a pack of rabid dingo's. Or Zombies. Or In the real world, pop cans. But, other than for bear, a .223 is reasonably priced, and a hoot to shoot. I don't know the carry laws in MN. In NY you have to completely conceal, so I couldn't use the PLR-16 as a carry piece, myself. Looks like fun on the range though. I've tried AR and AK based pistols, and I suck with them, but they are fun. Now, a Ruger Super Blackhawk with scope.... | ||
| Sifo |
You can find more of his art here. | ||
| Joebuell |
My opinion is that firearm is a cheap pos. Buy what you like. But for Gods sake, don't go off wounding deer with that thing. And don't jump on me about shot placement. Post a target pic shot with a keltec .223 pistol and then start flaming. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
A grizzly bear can be brought down with a shotgun ?? ...one shot ??? | ||
| Methed |
Okay, there is one other spoke in my reasoning which I have hesitated to mention yet, due only to the likelyhood of folks who might take the opportunity to hijack the thread in protest. At this point, I guess if it happens, it happens. Another characteristic and function I'm looking for use in prairie dog 'hunting', a recently-adopted annual tradition with my inlaws. We usually run through between 500 to a thousand rounds each trip, and while a rifle would be better equipped I still like the pistol for portability. As far as it looking like a piece of crap, looks can be deceiving. I've heard great things about the reliability and durability of the Kel-Tec products. I've also been told by folks that my Buell looks like junk that was put together as a kit... JoeB, I won't start flaming about anything related to deer hunting or shot placement--you've already pre-flamed that topic, so I don't see the need to broach that subject.  While I know that this thing would not drop a bear, nor a wild cat potentially, but the noise sure as heck would. Up here in the great white (and protected) north, you're not permitted by law to do much more than scare animals away unless a human life is in danger. Before someone asks, no I wouldn't deliberately wound an animal and walk away. Problem is, if I go with more than the do-it-all concept, I'll end up having to get three guns. Not that I'd mind having a shotgun, handgun, and rifle, but it just never works out that way for me for a multitude of reasons. | ||
| Hotrats |
sounds like a good choice for your intended purpose. throw a ler scope on it and bang away! when i sold firearms, i sold more than a few kel-tecs. while they may not be everyones ideal weapon, each to their own.... | ||
| Sifo |
ARE YOU NUTS? THOSE VARMINTS WILL SHOOT BACK! Seriously, now that the prey has been identified I think it's safe to say that a .223 round would be quite effective. I think a similar weapon with a folding/detachable stock might make it more versatile. I'm not familiar with what might fit that bill better though. | ||
| Nm5150 |
If it were me I would go with an AR lower with a collapsable stock and put an M4 type upper.It has a 14.5" barrel with a permanently attatched flash hider/muzzel brake to make it 16" legal and remain short as possible.It is also a flat top so you can put whatever kind of sights etc you want to on it.Then as you get more $ you can buy a 20" upper that you can put on your lower to whack prairie dogs instead of buyin a whole new rifle.You can even buy different caliber uppers and still use the same lower.The AR-15 platform is truely the "small block Chevy" of the fire arms world. | ||
| Sifo |
I would be curious why Joebuell thinks it's a POS. Will it fail to make a hole when the trigger is pulled? Is it just that you think a rifle will provide more accuracy? Is it that similar weapons will provide more accuracy? I just don't know from your comment. No offense intended to Methed, but as far as grouping on a target goes, most people are not capable of a grouping as tight as an expert shooter can deliver. I know I fall into that category. Given that assumption about the shooter it is usually not the quality of the weapon that is the biggest issue with poor grouping. If Methed was in fact an expert shooter I don't think he would have to be asking this question about this weapon. So how big of a mistake can you make? You can always trade it for something else later if you feel something that suites you better is available. You will almost certainly spend more on ammo than the depreciation of the gun over a few years time. | ||
| Joebuell |
I'm sure it will go bang. I'm sure it will be fun to blast away with. But to me, it is a worthless gun. It is NOT desireable in any category be it hunting, defense, competition. I would be shocked out of my sidi's if the mechanical accuracy was under 4moa, let alone actual groups when holding it by the pistol grip. And I would be equally shocked if the trigger wasn't a wreck. I'm AR biased, and would always want to save up for one instead as long as we're talking .223 If the OP wants a nice gun to go blasting with, carry a lil, keep in the nightstand for boogiemen, and fend off a bear, I'd suggest a stout revolver. But he didn't ask that. He asked my opinion on the keltec and I think it's a cheap gun that he will end up hating. I've made the same mistake when I was younger. to OP: BUY IT. blast away and have fun. Just for cripes sake have a backup plan if the bear doesn't run away... (Message edited by joebuell on December 30, 2009) | ||
| Methed |
Point taken Sifo and Joe, and appreciated. While I'm no marksman, I am also not without a bit of experience. I don't doubt the quality of the gun at all, but you're absolutely correct regarding handgun accuracy and I likely would be disappointed. To avoid belaboring the point, I'll most likely be skipping this purchase and opting to buy a handful of tools specifically designed for different purchases, though it'll likely take a bit longer to get where I'm wanting to go. Such is life, right? I can pick up an SKS or something similarly low-cost for plinking-off prairie dogs down the road, so first up is a handgun and CCW permit. Since I've got you on the line, give me your thoughts? I'm really not interested in a revolver--had plenty of experience with them and they have their place, but it's just not for me. I know I'm opening up a bigger can of worms, but give me some suggestions for an affordable, reliable semi-auto pistol option that'll have enough stopping power to stop a cougar or wolf. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
As far as it looking like a piece of crap, looks can be deceiving. That's true, look at me for example.  If it were legal here I'd like a Mossberg JIC. It suits my needs & capabilities exactly. |
