| Author | Message | ||
     Oldog |
Build the batteries, to be repairable. Froggy, the batteries, are big boxes of smaller cells, all connected in series, On our electric lift at work the pack is 90 volts, internaly connected, the car pack is doable, the bike pack not so much so. the charging cycle is several hours, not 5 minutes, so the answer is that the dud cost must be build into the swap some how, My concern is how to recycle the spent consumables usualy toxic heavy metals.. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
I was just cruising the electric motorcycle forum and found a cool modded zero S. They look kind of blah from the factory but I dig this one: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.ph p?topic=663.0 | ||
| Mndwgz |
This thing just looks simple. Until the mass of rechargeable cells comes down to something that has a power to weight to capacity factor then EV designers like this guy are still stuck with a huge box to build around.  | ||
| Fast1075 |
If you used for instance NMH batteries and set them up in series/parallel for charging/use...the charging time is greatly reduced... Where the electric vehicle shines is for the daily commute....mine is 17 miles...easily within the performance envelope of the non exotic battery technology.... | ||
| Prowler |
Regardless, looks like they did a nice job of packaging such that the batteries are not hanging out all over the place. I think it looks good. Nice design, but it needs some fenders....... | ||
| Grancuda |
What is the point. Where you getting electric from, solar panels, wind mills ...... no a coal powered plant or a plant that burns natural gas. If everyone starts using these they will have to build more electric plants and really burn some coal/gas. What about all the batteries when they are dead, they are toxic trash. This whole thing is a joke just like the whole global warming scam. I like how the guy on the electric motorcycle forum thinks his bike looks like a Ducati Monster. What part of it looks like one, the trellis frame - no, the v-twin air cooled exposed motor - no, must be the round headlight he added that looks about 2 sizes too big, wait you probably have to have it that big for the reflective qualities of since he is probably running a 10w bulb so he doesn't drain down his precious zero emissions ecologically correct Al Gore approved battery. See what is at the end of the power line people, follow along, house-power poles-sub station-high voltage lines-power plant=something being burned to produce electricity. Electricity doesn't come from some magical place where it just flows out of the sky, we burn stuff to get it. So explain to me where the whole zero emissions comes from when explaining an electric vehicle. just sick of the overload of everything right now  | ||
| Sifo |
EV's will currently allow people to avoid road taxes that are charged on gasoline. How long do you think the government will allow that to continue? Grancuda is correct in that all that is accomplished (aside from the obvious disadvantages of an EV) is deferral/displacement of the pollution. The entire power grid would need to be rebuilt to ever make EV's possible too. Just imagine the billions of people coming home from work plugging in their EV's to charge, go inside, switch on all the lights, crank up the A/C, turn on the big screen TV, microwave some food, etc. Can anyone say rolling blackouts? | ||
| Fast1075 |
I would want to plug into my own PV array for recharging... | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Brancuda, it's like eating meat. Many people enjoy eating animals, myself included but would be horrified if they had to butcher the animal themselves. They don't have to think about the process when they chomp down on a Big Mac and therefore, their conscious is clear. The same applies with "green" transportation. People don't want to know about nor do they care about the details. They just want to feel morally superior and guilt free as they putt down the freeway in their Prius or electric vehicle. Social science is a fascinating subject to me. People sometimes believe they are doing the smartest things when, in fact, they are silly. | ||
| Sifo |
How much space do you have for that array? Do you work nights? Go for it if you really want to make it happen, but you will spend way more than burning gas in a conventional motor. EDIT: I don't want to have to pay for your wants through government programs. That's just plain wrong! (Message edited by SIFO on December 22, 2009) | ||
| Brumbear |
in. You can also throw a little generatoer in the trunk for those long drives and intergrate solor poannels on the surface are's | ||
| Sifo |
Gas powered generator for your EV?  Why are people so bent on a technology that is just ineffective? How many days to charge your bike with the surface area of a bike? I sure hope it stays sunny so that I can drive home! | ||
| Fast1075 |
Recent developments have real promise for truly low cost PV film...one of our customers is involved in the development and I have seen some prototype stuff... The other is PV is not the only way to go...there is solar thermal which can be done with "backyard" technology...energy storage does not have to be in batteries, but can be stored by mass/gravity systems or compressed air or a host of other methods...some of which are more easily accomplished than others. | ||
| Sifo |
The other is PV is not the only way to go...there is solar thermal which can be done with "backyard" technology...energy storage does not have to be in batteries, but can be stored by mass/gravity systems or compressed air or a host of other methods...some of which are more easily accomplished than others. But each conversion of energy involves yet more losses and more cost in a system that is already not cost effective. | ||
| Fast1075 |
I see the cost factor...but the solar energy is free (unless we get a "sun tax") so what if it is inefficient at say...15% efficiency...it is still free...and if it is a personally owned and maintained site, there is no cost to the general population for it's operation....there is a possibility that excess power can be sold (or donated) to "the grid" to help ease the energy crunch. | ||
| Sifo |
I have no problem with your "free" energy. Just don't make me pay for it! | ||
| Hootowl |
Nanosolar has panels that produce energy at a slightly lower cost than coal, and that's just the plant construction costs, that doesn't include the cost of the coal. They're right at a dollar a watt. http://www.nanosolar.com Amazing stuff. I still like the "backyard" solar technologies like a thermal tower with liquid salt heat storage for energy production at night. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Solar is better suited for heating water. As a generator of electricity, it sucks. A two foot by four foot solar panel will yield about 100 watts at maximum output under optimum conditions ( direct sun). Your average hair dryer is 1500 watts. So, you can see how much space would be required to run just a hair dryer. At best, it's expensive supplemental power. People seem to think there are alternative technologies just lying around waiting to be utilized. If that were so, some smart rich cookie would already be making money without government subsidies (Message edited by Ferris_von_bueller on December 22, 2009) | ||
| Fast1075 |
The Italians have made great strides in the thermal storage area....they have a tower system that uses molten sodium of around four megawatts. The pilot plant worked so well, they are doubling the size by adding another system at the same location. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Heliostat solar power has been around for a long time and I think you meant, Spain. They have three such solar power plants. It still has a ways to go before it's competitive. I suspect when the economy turns around and the price of oil shoots through the roof the cost of solar won't be an issue. | ||
| Sifo |
Neither Spain or Italy have the energy reserves available to the US. Our energy problems are man made. It's simply a matter of letting the energy be used. | ||
| Sifo |
I despise the headline on this article, but it does point out one of the more viable energy solutions that we have available that is very cost effective. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_us_energy_shift | ||
| Fast1075 |
Sorry Ferris, my bad...it is Spain...duh.. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Read this. Even IF man-made global warming is real the solution need not be cap and trade. Like it's been said by many. It's about control - not about saving the planet. http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2511875/n athan_myhrvolds_anti_global_warming.html?cat=15 | ||
| Sifo |
Even IF man-made global warming is real the solution need not be cap and trade. Like it's been said by many. "Even IF" is where the whole thing fails. AGW has been demonstrated to be a false theory. Time to move on. The 'solution' proposed in your link is much better than cap&trade just because it is many times cheaper and can be turned off as soon as the last die hard AGW alarmists come to face reality. EDIT: Unlike C&T this solution actually has the possibility of having an effect on climate. (Message edited by SIFO on December 22, 2009) | ||
| Greg_e |
Scale model sized: http://www.2wheelhobbies.com/ | ||
| Bikertrash05 |
Grancuda,  . Too bad more people don't realize that. | ||
| Froggy |
Like I mentioned before, the consumers. It would be built into the cost of normal battery exchange. Lets say it costs $10 to exchange a cell, $5 would be the cost to recharge, $3 to cover other running costs, and $2 to go to a new battery.
Well I put only about 5 minutes worth of thought into the idea, I never said it was perfect. Suggestions? 
There are companies that handle this already.
In my neck of the woods it is clean, safe, and reliable nuclear.
Nope, they are fully recyclable.
Please find me the tailpipe emitting toxic fumes on an electric vehicle. Don't even give me the lame ass coal/gas powerplant excuse, as even with those nasty power sources, the economies of scale reduce costs and there is only one centralized unit that needs to be pollution controlled, and as result one plant puts off less emissions that the hundreds of thousands cars that would normally be running on gas/diesel.
It will happen till the gas tax dries up, then they will implement an electric tax. The real question is how long will it take for it to get to that point, and how much would the new tax be.
Won't happen, even with no changes to the current grid. Electric vehicles are programmed to recharge during off peak hours when the rates are cheaper.
I agree, I see the same thing. Yet I know the details and still want an electric infrastructure. These people that no nothing of the back of electric vehicles no nothing of gasoline vehicles either.
This is what the Chevy Volt does, and it seems to be quite effective, and probably would be the best short term answer till better batteries and charging systems emerge. Another nice thing about the volt is the optional roof solar cells, which can help charge it a bit while you are out and about.
If it was so ineffective, why is the whole industry going that way?
I tend to agree, current solar is sub bar and can't be used as a primary power source. It is one of those things that just needs time and R&D. | ||
| Grancuda |
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ quote: Can anyone say rolling blackouts? -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Won't happen, even with no changes to the current grid. Electric vehicles are programmed to recharge during off peak hours when the rates are cheaper. So if everyone in the city is charging their car at off peak times then that would be come the peak time. The charger for a car isn't like a cell phone charger, it is quite substantial and would draw quite a lot. -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ quote: Why are people so bent on a technology that is just ineffective? -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ If it was so ineffective, why is the whole industry going that way? how is the whole industry going that way, I don't see much coming out that is electric besides the little golf cart based neighbor hood cars that would never hold up to daily use. | ||
| Froggy |
Chevy:  Mitsubitshi:  Nissan:  Dodge:  Ford:  |
