You want to improve access to healthcare? It should go to educating new doctors, and helping them allieviate the cost inhibitor to become a doctor. It may actually be in the bile.... who knows, it aint public yet
I usually require if somebody is going to reach into my pocket that I know what they are up to....
To force people under threat of fines and incarceration to purchase coverage is unconstitutional. Furthermore, to compel people to support abortion, an elective procedure, is wrong.
Ok think about it this way. In a few years we get a right wing Admin and House, Senate.
You want them involved in your life. It won`t always be the side you want in power. You should be questioning any more power that you give them. because the other side will be controlling your life in a few years.
I want less government in my life. I don`t trust them.
Most folks don't understand that we already have "managed and rationed health care" with decisions made by third parties. The third parties are the insurance companies. If my choices are less insurance company intrusion or less government intrusion, I want less insurance company intrusion. It's really quite simple. The less money the insurance comapnies take out of the health care pie, the more money available for the nurses, doctors, hospitals, to provide actual health care. The government also needs to put a leash on the pharmaceutical companies to limit their price gouging in the US. Then the government should address tort reform to prevent frivolous lawsuits. Folks shouldn't get large payouts for having a "bad medical outcome" that wasn't caused by actual malpractice. This results in escalating costs because of defensive medicine.}
Are you a doctor? None of the doctors that I know share your concerns. But if you ask them what they think of the health insurance companies, you will find out that greater than 70% of the health care dollars are going to the insurance companies, and not to anyone actually providing any health care. A redistribution of the money away from the insurance industry and towards the health care providers would be the best thing that can happen to health care in the US. Where is the big money lobbying coming from that opposes health care reform?...The insurance comapnies.
Diablo, you have been mislead.
As someone in the insurance business, your conclusions are erroneous.
Insurance companies take in premium from insured parties. This premium serves to allow the insured to off load the risk of significant medical expenses to a third party. Insurance companies allow for 70-85% loss expectations ($.70-.85 of each dollar paid out in premiums). The rest are administrative costs, marketing expenses, and profit. On average, medical companies make between 4% and 9% profit.
The insurance companies aren't taking money out of the medical system. They are paying money into the medical system for services provided. Humana's loss ratio was 82.7% for 2008, $.87 of ever dollar paid in insurance premium was paid out in medical claims to insured. 100% of the claims paid went to medical providers (doctors, nurses, hospitals).
Most folks don't understand that we already have "managed and rationed health care" with decisions made by third parties. The third parties are the insurance companies. If my choices are less insurance company intrusion or less government intrusion, I want less insurance company intrusion. It's really quite simple. The less money the insurance comapnies take out of the health care pie, the more money available for the nurses, doctors, hospitals, to provide actual health care. The government also needs to put a leash on the pharmaceutical companies to limit their price gouging in the US. Then the government should address tort reform to prevent frivolous lawsuits. Folks shouldn't get large payouts for having a "bad medical outcome" that wasn't caused by actual malpractice. This results in escalating costs because of defensive medicine.
The difference is that under a private system, the insured has a choice. You get to choose WHO will be your provider. If one starts "rationing" care in a manner of which we disapprove, you can change providers. Under a governmental system, there is no escape. There is only one brand. If you don't like it, tough luck.
If you'd like a prime example of this, look at what happened in the flood insurance market.
In 1968, Congress established the National Flood Insurance Program. Prior to 1968, private insurance companies provided flood insurance. The NFIP was established as a "public option". Following the establishment of the NFIP, all insurance companies ceased providing flood insurance.
This will be the ultimate end of the "public option", a single payor system.
Now, Diablo, here is the question. You state that you would rather have a governmental system, unencumbered by the limits of competition and profitability and operating as a monopoly, than multiple private sector companies.
Right now, Medicare and Medicaid are the only game in town. Congress and the President state that they are able to glean $500B of savings out of the Medicare system.
Considering UHC, the largest provider made less than $5B in profits for 2007 and Less than $3B in profits for 2008, $500B in waste within Medicare and Medicaid represents over 100 years of insurance company profits.
And this is simply ONE YEAR of waste and cuts.
Do you REALLY believe the folks who bring us the $2,000 toilet seat and $200 hammer can operate 1/6 of our national economy with less than 4-9% waste?
Your faith in the government solution is misguided at best.
Insurance companies suck. Your faith in their willingness to do what their customers pay them to do is on a par with believing in Santa Clause. Insurance companies have screwed over several people I know, including family members. The Government could only improve the system.
Crusty, I agree with your post 100%!!! I'm a victim of insurance company scam on two different occasions. And as far as our health care system, don't even get me started on that! Our health care in America is totally screwed up and is in bad need of fixing! I'm just hoping that someone can get it done!
The difference is that under a private system, the insured has a choice. You get to choose WHO will be your provider. If one starts "rationing" care in a manner of which we disapprove, you can change providers. Under a governmental system, there is no escape. There is only one brand.
Not so. If the government provides "the public option", then there is an alternative to getting gouged by the insurance companies. However, if folks still want the freedom to choose to get gouged by the insurance companies they can do that. But the insurance lobby did their best to bribe Liberman, Mccain etc. to make sure there was no public option. The insurance companies only want to insure healthy folks. Once you get sick and are denied coverage, you have no options to find another insurance company. Try switching companies with a pre-existing condition and see what they want to charge, if you can get coverage at all.
Here's a nice link with some good information: http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-faq
I'm certainly not going to argue that insurance companies are saints in suits.
Are congressmen any better?
I do note that the Insurance companies that fully supported this bill when it included severe penalties for not buying insurance from them feel less gleeful when the penalties are low enough for someone to just pay the fine each year until they get sick. ( if you can pay, say, 10k a year for full coverage, 5k for a fine if you don't pay.... and can sign up when you want to... Why pay the insurance company until the last minute? )
I defy anyone to give an example of govt. cutting costs, improving service, and not taxing YOU for the job.
Now, I haven't read the bill. I KNOW you haven't unless you are one of the very few elite in Sen. Reid's office. The bill that was.. before they screwed with it to get the votes.. certainly does not lower costs, improve service, or get everyone health insurance.
If you burned this bill, made a new one that made actual insurance reforms, ( like no pre-exixting condition issues, etc. ) made interstate sales possible, by making a Federal mandated minimum coverage, ( and dropping all that State mandated stuff. ) allowed a needed raise in rates, ( to cover for the mandated coverage, like no pre-existing conditions ) tort reform, ( to actually reduce medical costs ) and took the money "to be payed back" from banks, wall street, GM etc. to give everyone who could not afford it, health insurance. ( except illegal aliens...who get free coverage under the "we fix you then deport you" provision in MY bill. )
Now, except for a few people who chose not to buy health insurance when they can afford it, we are all covered. The current Senate bill does NOT do that, and will probably cost 7 trillion.
The current bill also is very very good for lawyers. No surprise there as they are major contributers. ( mostly which party? )
Diablo, I certainly don't know all that's going on. I do know I'm going to get screwed.
I can't believe you buy the crap you hear from some people. After looking at the "doctors for socialized health insurance" site you list above.... I can see that behind the nice platitudes, they offer dictatorial control from "boards" run by them and a complete lack of caring how to make a business profitable.....honestly.
Dude, they are con men. ( not saying the "institute for insurance company enrichment" is the one to believe either....but come ON! )
Here, part of their mission staement. The U.S. spends twice as much as other industrialized nations on health care, $8,160 per capita. Yet our system performs poorly in comparison and still leaves 46.3 million without health coverage and millions more inadequately covered.
This is because private insurance bureaucracy and paperwork consume one-third (31 percent) of every health care dollar. Streamlining payment through a single nonprofit payer would save more than $400 billion per year, enough to provide comprehensive, high-quality coverage for all Americans.
Ok, sounds good. But, what percentage of Federal government money gets from taxpayer to provider of service? I'll bet you it's less than 50%. So instead of covering the uncovered, fairly, you fail to cover those already covered..
I'm not a doctor. I'm an RN that works with lots of doc's in several different clinics for an HMO. My daughter is now a doc and I'm concerned that she's going to have a difficult time after her residency. She's $250K in debt and as this health care disaster goes thru, she, and all the doc's out there, will be told by our socialist govt what they can and can't do. It's already somewhat like that now with Medicare and Medicaid.
Many of the doc's I work with now can't wait to get out. And if our health care is so bad, why do people from all over the world come here to see our specialists. If there was another country that was better than the good ol US of A, I'd be there, but there isn't.
What also needs to happen is to limit what these stinkin lawyers (sorry if any of you are out there) sue our doc's for. The cost of being a doc has to be taken into consideration of what they may have to pay out when/if they get sued.
Sorry for the rant, but I work in the field and it scares the daylights out of me what's in store for us.
Not so. If the government provides "the public option", then there is an alternative to getting gouged by the insurance companies. However, if folks still want the freedom to choose to get gouged by the insurance companies they can do that. But the insurance lobby did their best to bribe Liberman, Mccain etc. to make sure there was no public option. The insurance companies only want to insure healthy folks. Once you get sick and are denied coverage, you have no options to find another insurance company. Try switching companies with a pre-existing condition and see what they want to charge, if you can get coverage at all.
Reread my previous post. You are missing my point.
Once the government enters the private space, private industry ceases to exist.
If the "public option" were going to be so good, the Federal Government wouldn't need to raise taxes in support of the plan.
Government can price the product below what makes business sense because any shortfall will be made up in taxes. Private companies can't do this.
I would like to see the state by state restrictions removed. There is no need for an individual to have to re-qualify with the same company simply because they have moved from one state to another.
Currently there are NO 50 state approved insurance products of any type. Each state regulates its own insurance products.
I would like to see an insurance premium tax credit. This allows the government to provide incentives for folks to buy their own insurance but allows the free market to compete for those insurance dollars. The tax credit would apply to both employers AND individuals.
I would like to see a 12-36 month continuous coverage pre-existing condition waver. If you've had coverage for 12-36 continuous months, you can move from one carrier to another without underwriting review. If you opt not to buy coverage and you develop a condition disqualifying you from benefit, tough luck.
Direct government "competition" is not needed. The goal of this legislation is NOT and never has been for a "public option".
The goal is to nationalize 1/6 of the nations economy.
PS. The people doing the "bribing" is Reid and Pelosi.
"Drain the swamp?" "Unprecedented level of transparency?"
I believe some of you are under the impression that all your health care needs will be met and it won't cost you more than a hamburger because the money is going to rain down from Heaven. At a time when this country is limping along we have morons in Congress worrying about health care and climate change. They are completely self-serving pricks that I would just as well spit on as shake their hands.
The hypocrisy of the President remarking our private health care system is bankrupting us when Medicare will be completely broke in a few short years. Guess what happens when that occurs? RATIONING, which means when your old ass needs a life saving operation government bureaucrats will pull out a chart and say, " Nope, no can do."
Diablo, Someone is blowing smoke up your skirt.. I have a REAL strong medical background in my immediate family. A Dr, 2-nurses, 2-OT's and a PT. ALL of them are staunch yellow dog liberal democrats. All of them are quite worried, even the Dr. They recognize a steamimg pile of dung when the see it.
This is NOT healthcare reform is is simple redistribution of wealth. Plain and simple. Another way for Washington to take more control from the people and the states.
Real healthcare reform will not happen until the folks in the clown palace in DC are force to stop taking "bribes". From who? Damn near everyone. The worst is the Association of Trial Lawyers. Until tort reform occurs costs will continue to spiral upward. My brother in law (the Dr) pays over 100,000 per year in malpractice insurance. He has never been successfully sued. He's had 4 complete BS suits filed but won all of them. The cost of the litigation was over $500,000.
Who the hell do you think pays for that?
Open up the state borders so the insurance companies can compete. Make health care savings accounts more attractive, get rid of the end of the year "spend it or lose it" rules. Introduce a tax deduction for a HCSA or flex account, not just no taxes on contributions.
Allow inexpensive catastrophic insurance polices and a tax credit (or at least a deduction) for general medical expenses.
My son and daughter really don't need a HMO type plan, why be force to pay for it? They are healthy and fit.
If you look at it closely, the cost of doing business (laywers, law suits, BS regulations, BS FDA requirements, etc. etc. etc. all ad MILLIONS to even the most simple medical developments. The cost for a major new drug is measured int the BILLIONS sometime. Much of it is to cover their collecive asses.
There is nothing in this dung heap pile of legislation that addresses the real issues. They all know it too, they are simply doing something to be able to say they did something.
Wait until the bill comes due for this manure pile.
Sicking
Brad
Yeah, this is a rant. Wake the hell up folks, the emperor has no cloths.
Yea Brad and all you other guys out there. This is the biggest pile of dung I've ever seen and I've never been much into politics before this new fearful leader came into office.
Some think Obamas the anti-christ, he's promising peace but in the long run all he's doing is shitting on us all. There was an equation you could input obamas name into and the solution came to 666, I'm still searching for it, if I ever find it I'll post it under here.
Diablo1 I have to ask this question, I saw and heard Obama, say this during the Debate with Hillary, Did you?
In a nut shell if you dont buy health care insurance you will be fined, So now take it a step further, situation1 Low income family, (single working parent) just managing to pay the rent, electricity, gas, car ins and groceries, now they must spend money that they dont have or be fined ( more money they dont have) Situation 2 Older middle age man or woman, single perhaps an entorpenurer trys to buy "comprehensive" [ ppo , hmo ] insurance the premium quoted me at age 49 was 859$ per month 859$ per month, my rent at that time was under 500$, Oh yea they will likely fine any non insured.
so when its groceries, or insurance, is not more than one option better, My solution was the same as BluzM2 I put 5k away no touch, and got catrostropic illness and injury protection $175 per month. I do not want government progams to be my only out, they cant manage whats there, so more is better?
I have seen and heard enough from speaches and the congressional / presidential actions to KNOW that this bill is a HUGE PILE OF $HIT that the "Know betters" intend to feed us
What is beginning to concern me is the arrogance of the elected officials, and their failure to learn from history the soviet system of all encompasing government FAILED it wont work here either
Those who fail to learn historys lessons are 'damn to repeat them.
As someone in the insurance healthcare finance industry... this bill is going to make my pockets fatter, may bank account swell and improve patient care not one wit.
I would personally like to thank the Democrats for their most recent bail out.
As a fiscally responsible conservative, I am torn, because the bill is a blatant farce for reform,... but I could use the raise. I will go form the LLC on Monday to finalize the non profit organization, and apply for my portion of the pork.
PS If you wanted to know how Govt healthcare works go look at the H1N1 virus purchase, allocation, distribution, hold backs and inneffectiveness
btw, thanks Roush Pharmaceuticals for a nice ride. see you next year
yet another senator that has no sense of reality. My business is going to go up. Why, because I know a stack of red tape BS that has no bearing on improving patient care when I see it.... But guess who gets paid to enforce, audit, and cite fines in face of compliance, guess who gets paid when there is graft, bribery, subterfusion and kickbacks ?
And I thank you all very much. I am not in medicine because I like patients (actually I never see any of them) I am in healthcare insurance finance and administration as an independent auditor and investigator. Did it for years before I came to bike sales. Follow the money, cuz it will surely go down the rabbit hole. Improved patient care... nope, ask the Drs, Rns, PAs.... they are already over worked. DSHS, Medicare, Medicaid, Labor & Industries, Social Security Disability.... Theres a new fat cow in the field and the 'distinguished' gentleman from Illinois is stepping through the cow patties to find a new spot of grass.
And if it is all so good, and all so imperative that this bill gets passed NOW... why do none of the changes (except higher taxes) occur for four years?
oh, and its scottish, not german, so pizz off with that goosestepping inferences.
If it is all so F-ng imperative, but doesnt kick in for four years... what have they accomplished? Where is improved access? Where is lower premiums for businesses or working families? Where are lower drug costs?
It stinks of the same 'emergency' that TARP was, and that they want to make climate with Cap & Trade.
