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Court
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 01:08 pm: | 
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>>>I have a feeling that Harley-Davidson INC. has cut their own throat with returning to their "core customers".
I do know that there are at least two folks from the Wall Street Journal toying with "what the hell is Harley-Davidson thinking? stories.
If I were writing it . . . I'd titled it "Wandell: Hero or Hobo?" |
86129squids
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 02:13 pm: |
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IDEA: What if Erik Buell Racing developed a flat-tracker around S&S's new "X-Wedge" motor, some lightweight version of it?
Heck, I'd be very interested in ANY collaboration between Erik and S&S- what other powertrain supplier would be better to use and give "the finger" to the Moco?
Hmmm..... |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 02:19 pm: |
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mmmmm Dirt Track, just a set of lights and tire change away from Dual Sportin
Bring it.
The guys at Grand National are making XB Flat-Trackers
http://grandnationalreplica.com/?110000 |
Strato9r
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 02:27 pm: |
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+1, J. Brad..... |
Jaimec
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 02:30 pm: |
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Brad, RevTech comes to mind. Or better yet: Victory or Indian.
Of course all of those engines are too damned big to be used in a flat-tracker. Even the X-Wedge is massive compared to the XR750 motor.
On the other hand, to REALLY give the bird to the mothership, a HONDA motor would probably work just as well... |
Paint_shaker
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 08:33 pm: |
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Last I heard the RevTech motors had some issues. It has been a few years though... |
Ferris_von_bueller
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 09:04 pm: |
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HD is cutting their York, Pa. workforce by more than half and reducing most workers to part-time status.
Yea, I'd say HD will be smaller. |
Easy_rider
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 10:31 pm: |
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I think it would be tough for Erik to be getting some freedom from HD on one hand and stick it to them with the other. I don't really see flat track as his thing, anyway, (with no real knowledge here). I'd love to watch it, though! |
Midknyte
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 10:38 pm: |
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So, if you "follow the money", which is bleeding all over the f*cking place - Is there / what is, to be gained by this company intentionally killing itself? |
Tom_b
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 10:42 pm: |
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I get it... H/d built the xr1200 flat track replica street bike, then kills off the funds for the flat track racers instead of captializing on their wins to help sell an ill handling underpowered(but cool looking) cycle..Is it me or does that make absolutely no sense at all??? |
Aptbldr
| | Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 06:37 am: |
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Indy Mile this year: 450 flat-trackers gave a great show. The 'big twins' were the 'big class', but I'll say promoted for class's celebrity riders and the variety of mfgrs, over performance & technology.
Perhaps American motorcycling is rolling over: can't/won't depend on H-D anymore. |
Prowler
| | Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 07:49 am: |
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Cracks me up, all these folks saying "things are bad at Harley, pretty soon H-D will be gone"....has anyone looked at the numbers? H-D is still in the black, selling motorcycles, parts, and accessories. Obviously in smaller numbers and profits are down, BUT STILL MAKING MONEY, not losing money like GM, Chrysler, etc. Most would consider that a huge win in these economic times. Why they are cutting the way they are, who knows? (in particular Buell and the racing efforts....) Will be interesting to see what H-D looks like in a year. |
Gohot
| | Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 08:22 am: |
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Perhaps 'people are saying'bad things, because they feel abandoned... at any rate because they say it don't make it so. Never the less their really pulling a boner on Buell and it seems they are showing no real leadership at the headquarters of HD. Dumb&Dumber on the board. |
Fast1075
| | Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 08:32 am: |
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Harley has a legacy of owning the clay...since the turn of the century...the only "real" racing that Harley ever completely owned is the Flat Track...we all know that...memories of watching XRs are large in my memory...steel on clay, sideways in a pack...tires bumping at a 100mph...that is exciting racing....that is Harley at their finest...something they could not only do....but do it time after time better than anybody else.
Now they abandon their legacy...un freakin believable... |
Swordsman
| | Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 09:25 am: |
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"H-D is still in the black, selling motorcycles, parts, and accessories. Obviously in smaller numbers and profits are down, BUT STILL MAKING MONEY, not losing money like GM, Chrysler, etc."
Unless I'm much mistaken (and I often am), they're making money on paper, but owe SO much more that if the loans come due, they're finished. Buffet owns H-D, he just hasn't claimed it yet.
~SM
(Message edited by Swordsman on December 04, 2009) |
46champ
| | Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 10:53 am: |
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Hay City do you know how much grandnational replica gets for one of their bikes? Something tells me similar to what Lawwill got for his. That is what the XR1200 should look like and probably run like. |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 09:35 pm: |
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No prices listed, you have to contact them for the correct rapage....
The frame by itself was 5800 plus tax and shipping OUCH. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 09:49 pm: |
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You can make $200M dollars net profit, but when you are $1,000M in the hole, it don't mean much.
The interest alone on their black hole eats $150M a year.
Kinda puts the "still making money" thing in a different perspective. |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 02:59 am: |
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Its like peeing in the wind, you feel better cuz your bladder is empty,.. but really...
They need to gimp over to O'Bama and see if he will give them a too big to fail hand out.
Kill Buell, Kill Flat Track, meh, hell the chrome isnt even from here anymore (hasnt been for a long time) |
Ulynut
| | Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 07:10 am: |
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If Harley goes under, does Erik get his patents back? |
Mmmi_grad
| | Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 09:05 am: |
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Whatever happens to hd, they deserve it! I got 30-40 more years on this planet. I dont care if they die, I DONT want to see tax payer money going to them because they are a bunch of t shirt selling fools. |
Ulynut
| | Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 10:41 am: |
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As much as I HATE what the H.D. execs. did to Buell, I don't want to see H.D. go bankrupt. That would be bad. Thats a lot more jobs lost, tons of investors would be out a lot of money, and another American institution squandered. What good would that be?
When it was announced that Buell would temporarily lay off their production workers, people on this forum were moved to start a collection for the Elves who would be laid off just before the holidays. That was when we all thought they would get their jobs back. Now most of them have lost their jobs for good. Do you want to see the same for the H.D. employees? Are you going to pass the hat for them? No. I see a lot of people calling for the "death" of Harley-Davidson Inc., but think about what you are hoping for. |
Cyclonedon
| | Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 11:53 am: |
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it's time for Harley-Davidson to pull the plug one more time! This time they should pull the plug on Keith Wandell! It's time for him to go!
Folks, enough is enough! The company can't survive with this idiot leading them!
He's starting to remind me of Bob Nardelli, another genuine looser! |
46champ
| | Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 11:59 am: |
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They have pulled the plug on the racing department before. After the buy out from AMF when things got really tight Scotty Parker was the only factory rider, Chris Carr was getting little more than parts and tech support. I'm not deminishing the severity of this but it is something that Harley has done before. |
Strato9r
| | Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 03:29 pm: |
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I know that a new XR750 hasn't been built since 1980 or thereabouts, so are the ones still racing still using H-D manufactured engines or have they been replaced, piece by piece, with aftermarket items? If the engines ARE mostly or entirely aftermarket by now, will H-D's abandonment of flat track even have much of an effect on current teams, other than sponsorship?
As outstanding as the XR is, and has been since they went with the alloy top ends, it would be interesting if there were other machines that were competitive, even if engines came from manufacturers that were not involved in building complete machines (eg. Rotax engines in Woods-Rotax bikes). If S+S or Rev-Tech were to put their own spin on things, it could make for some very interesting competition. Obviously, the XBRR engine showed amazing potential, and a 3.5" bore x 2.25" stroke version of that engine, with all the cooling fin area needed to keep the RR from meltdown, would be able to run flat out for days on end. And although the X-Wedge IS a big engine, it's combustion chamber and lightweight valvetrain is seriously NASCAR inspired, and could work really well on a compact, 4-cam bottom end (one of the XR-750's real advantages, allowing it to be precision tuned for track length and conditions). |
Madduck
| | Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 03:42 pm: |
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Racers can get a new XR750 any time, they have been in continuous manufacture since the 50's, with many improvements. It does arrive as a kit which does require assembly. No one runs them in their factory configuration, however. I don't personnaly know anyone that has purchased one ready to ride but I have no doubts it is available. |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 03:49 pm: |
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Oh How Sweet it is
ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS IS A
fired CEO a Fired CEO |
46champ
| | Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 08:43 pm: |
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You buy an engine from Harley and everything else from a cottage industry that has grown up to support them. Steve Storz is one that springs to mind. That is why one of the proposals to bring the Japanese factories in more by requiring more stock parts is going to put a bunch of people out of business. |
Jimidan
| | Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 11:11 pm: |
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Just because HD isn't going to sponsor more than one factory team, doesn't mean that folks will stop using the XR750 engine or that it spells the demise of flat track racing. From the races I went to last year, flat tracking is alive and well in the USA. Maybe the AMA will have to increase the purses to make it more feasible for privateers to be able to race. We can always hope for change.
I always thought it was funny that HD would be competing against all of its dealership sponsored racers with factory riders...since there was no other manufacturers involved with factory teams (was there?). |
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