| Author | Message | ||
     Someday |
Just saw in the Jan 2010 issue of Cycle World that Honda's new 1200VFR is available with a dual clutch gearbox. This is the same technology that all the high end sports cars have been incorporating the last few years, ie: paddle shifters on the steering wheel or leave it in auto mode and let it do it's thing. At first everyone was against it saying they would never give up their manual trans. Now the tide is turning and people are realizing is a superior way to go, like carbs vs F/I. I'd like to give it a try and see for myself. What do you guy's think? | ||
| Froggy |
Yep I want a DSG, they are nice. Not that it matters, its obsolete once electric motors take over.  | ||
| Teeps |
That will likely be my next bike... when the Ulysses can no longer be repaired. | ||
| Bigdaddy |
I wish Honda would publish the price on the new VFR. I'm betting 16K+. | ||
| Doubled |
Having driven an M3 with paddle shifters quite a bit, although it is far superior, I found myself missing the connection I had to the machine when I wasn't clutching it myself. For now, I'll keep my manual clutch. | ||
| Svh |
Every review I have read the authors all say the same thing: The bike feels smaller than its weight. They prefer the auto trans because it works so well. It is 100% better than the bike it replaces as a sport tourer. Haven't seen any complaints other than the fact pricing and accesories won't be set until mid December. I hope to check it out at the IMS in Chicago. | ||
| Swordsman |
It would HAVE to work better than your standard auto in a car for me to ever consider one. I despise autos in a car... they never downshift when I want them to. ~SM | ||
| Rfischer |
The twin-clutch transmissions have nothing in common with "automatic" transmissions from an engineering perspective. They are in fact highly sophisticated mechanical [as opposed to hydraulic] devices which use advanced ECU's to manage gear changes. The new VFR tranny is simply brilliant; all the more so in a shaft-drive application as it all but eliminates the typical shaft-drive rear-wheel jacking effect. There is a video comparing a manual VFR 6 spd. to the twin-clutch model running on a chassis dyno through all the gears up to 120 mph. The difference is dramatic. I suspect the improved chassis dynamics is the main reason Honda has decided to incorporate the twin-clutch box in the bike. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Now the tide is turning and people are realizing is a superior way to go Superior in what way? I'm with doubled - A buddy of mine bought a VW GTI with a DSG transmission. It was really neat and fun to drive... for like 5 minutes. Then it was just another boring manual-shifted auto that you may as well just leave in full auto mode. The problem with any automatic transmission, hydraulic or mechanical, is that it can only respond to the inputs you give to the car. If you're cruising on the highway and want to make a fast pass, you mash on the gas and wait a second for the trans to downshift before you go anywhere. In a manual, you know that you're going to make the pass so you downshift BEFORE you mash the gas. Yeah, you can do that in an automatic, too, but it defeats the purpose of having an automatic. I'd have to ride one, but I'm not a fan of the new VFR. | ||
| 46champ |
I wonder how much that is going to cost to repair? When the bike runs out of warranty and the tranny needs to be overhauled it will cost more than the bike is worth. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Superior in what way? I'm with doubled - A buddy of mine bought a VW GTI with a DSG transmission. It was really neat and fun to drive... for like 5 minutes. Then it was just another boring manual-shifted auto that you may as well just leave in full auto mode. I came very close to buying a TDI Jetta with the DSG transmission. Then I read that dealers were charging ~$800 for fluid changes that were mandatory every ~20k miles or so. The sheer complexity of having two separate computer-controlled clutches working in a synchronized fashion makes my brain hurt. It might be fine for a bike, but I would NOT want it on a car that I expect to put 200k miles on. I opted for the conventional 5 speed and I'm glad I did. | ||
| Rfischer |
Ah, the human animal - resistant to change every time it rears its ugly head. Read the reports of the professional riders who have tried the VFR twin-clutch. On the track as well as on the street. Read the reports of professional drivers who have thrashed the new Porsche Turbo with the twin-clutch. Including race-pace laps of Nurbugring. Read the reports of Professional testers who have thrashed the new M-B 7 spd. twin-clutch in AMG C63's and E63's. And so forth.... But, hey! - who am I to talk... I still ski on 'skinny' boards. Don't want no stinkin 'fat' ones. Despite objective evidence that they are clearly superior in virtually all conditions. So there! | ||
| Arcticktm |
Xl1200r, As mentioned above, it is not an automatic trans. It is just a fancy 2 manual clutch trans that you use buttons in stead of a shifter to operate, and the clutch engage/disengage is done by the computers. The only thing you loose is the ability to aggressively slip the clutch instead of doing an actual downshift. Not sure if I am a fan or not, but this is not the same thing as manually moving the shift lever in a true automatic transmission. | ||
| 2008xb12scg |
What's "better" is not always as much fun.. | ||
| Rick_a |
Manumatic is the correct term. Not for me. | ||
| Swordsman |
I guess I should also mention that if i wanted a more complex bike, I probably wouldn't have opted for an air cooled lump.  ~SM | ||
| Tpoppa |
I like the looks of the new Viffer. But...I'm not looking for a 600lb sportbike or an uncomfortable tourer with limited range. It's a 'tweener. | ||
| Someday |
Wow, this is the same reaction that happened on a Porsche forum when the PDK was introduced. That was a couple of years ago, and now the tide is turning and people who have given it a chance are converts. It's just progress. I'd like to hear Erik's thoughts on it. | ||
| Froggy |
I am sure Erik has a prototype with a triple clutch and 10 speeds in his garage | ||
| Aesquire |
I've got the DSG in my TDI Sportwagen. I like it, but it's not a classic auto, although you can just put it in "D" and it acts like one. Drop down to "S" and it runs a whole different program, like having a shift kit in an auto that you can switch off. Shifting semi manually, the DSG only obeys when it wants to..... It knows when it's too early to shift, and does a fair job of preventing over revs. If you are in the proper parameters, and it decides to obey you, shifts are fraction of a second jobs, and better, smoother, faster than I could do it with a manual. But it sure isn't a manual either. If the Honda system works right & you can chose programed modes, I think it would be great. Once us old farts die out no one will know how to shift anymore. | ||
| Sifo |
Shifting is one of the things I really enjoy riding a bike. It's a skill that when done correctly is magical. When done by a computer it's just boring. It may work great but boring. | ||
| Teddagreek |
I'll pass I've never even owned a car with a Automatic... 2 years ago I couldn't find a full size truck with a 6 speed... Ended up flying to Tennessee to buy a Dodge Ram with a 6-speed | ||
| 4cammer |
I will have to pass as well. Don't see a H2O cooled bike in my future anytime soon, and sure as heck don't see one that will make my shifts for me. This might be the kind of bike for me when I am at the stage in my life when I have to sit to take a leak. Just sayin. (Message edited by 4Cammer on December 02, 2009) | ||
| Someday |
Yeah, I'm sure there will be bugs in the system at first but when they get it perfected I'd like to give it a try. I wonder how long it will be before other manufactures come out with one? Remember under slung exhaust pipes? Erik sets the bar and now how many others have adopted it? Like I said...it's just progress. | ||
| Rfischer |
The tests done so far with the VFR system I've seen have found no "bugs" as far as functionality is concerned. The various operational modes seem to have covered all bases. One track tester commented after running hot laps that the "sport" setting sometimes had him a gear higher exiting a corner than he would have preferred. However, due to the wide torque band of the V4, there was no appreciable difference in lap times between the that and the full manual mode where he determined the gear[s] he thought appropriate. Honda has spent a lot of time and money sorting this technology out. Don't forget, their engineering capabilities dwarf every other mfr. Which is not to say they don't have issues from time to time, only that they have fewer of them and when encountered, find the 'fix' very quickly and get it out the door. That has been their history for a long time; back to the late 60's in my experience [as a Distributor sales rep. and dealer]. | ||
| Someday |
I don't know if I'd buy one, but the technology is fantastic! |
