| Author | Message | ||
     Court |
Buell has NEVER been a cash cow . . . . Buell . . I **think** actually operated in the black one year. That is amazing. No one else in United States, other than Harley-Davidson . . has done that in YEARS. I'm not sure about Victory, but they are significantly smaller than Buell and one would have to understand the numbers to know what went in to them. Buell revenues are entirely motorcycles. None of the other stuff is allocated to Buell. That's all motorclothes and P&A. Different company.. . unless I miss my guess. Harley-Davidson was careful not to get Buell too "integrated" . . . . BUT WAIT MR. BILL . . . I thought they could sell Buell because they were TOO integrated. Easy son . . . not everything a major corporation tells you is exactly true. It's really quite amazing. | ||
| Liquorwhere |
I got a call this evening from a fellow who related a rumor that, just prior to the decision to eliminate Buell Motorcycles, Harley-Davidson had gotten an offer–or, at least, the proposal to make an offer–from Bombardier (the parent Company of Victory Motorcycles and Can-Am Spyders) to purchase the Buell Division from H-D. Don't know about you, but the last time I checked Victory Motorcycles was owned solely by Polaris, and Polaris is in no way shape or form a partner with Bombarier (trains or otherwise) or BRP which is the actual company that owns Can-Am, Sea-Doo, Ski-Doo and Rotax. It puts some doubt in my mind as to the validity of any article when basic facts are not correctly attributed, if the small stuff is missed, usually the big stuff is also a bit fishy. Considering the source is chopper guy from Bonertown..I didn't make that up...It seems just wishful thinking. | ||
| Midknyte |
"As soon as his 15-month non-compete agreement with H-D expires, of course" Where has this been stated? What is the source? Not calling you out or disbelieving. I just want to be assured I can believe... | ||
| Jaimec |
The only thing Erik makes that MIGHT compete with the Chrome sofas is the XB12XT. Unless Harley is STOOOOOOOOPID enough to think ANY Buell is competition for the XR1200? | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
The new XR1200X is the only bike they make that comes close to anything Buell has made, and that XR1200X is still a Euro only machine. | ||
| Rfischer |
For what it's worth, I doubt BRP would have any interest in Buell as they've already 'bin there - dun that' with Can-Am. And remember the pain. As for MV Agusta, get real. NOBODY at BRP is that stupid. Only H-D is that stupid. If anything of the failed Castiglioni empire was worth snatching up, it was Husqvarna. HVA had the option to take the brand back as it was only licensed to Castiglioni by the Swedes, but its board was not interested in getting back in the MC business. BMW grabbed it as a natural extension of the their new emphasis on a younger demographic and off-road markets. That might have worked for H-D but management apparently failed to see the opportunity. The jury's still out on whether BMW will make any money from it, but at least it IS a growing market segment rather than a dying high-end sport bike niche. | ||
| Greenlantern |
Easy son . . . not everything a major corporation tells you is exactly true. Aw c'mon! Next you will be telling me that politicians are dishonest, Paris Hilton has no talent and that you can't get a real slice of pizza in Delaware! | ||
| Swordsman |
Oh, Paris has... talents..... but that's only if you think Big Bird is sexy. ~SM | ||
| Bikertrash05 |
Easy son . . . not everything a major corporation tells you is exactly true. I've got some stories, remind me to tell you sometime.  | ||
| Davegess |
MV is worthless. What value they had ws in Husky and Tromblini (sp?) the designer. H-D has managed to lose two of the worlds top motorcycle designers in one year! How's that for an accomplishment! | ||
| Percyco |
The new XR1200X is the only bike they make that comes close to anything Buell has made, and that XR1200X is still a Euro only machine Euro only ? Dont think so...my local dealer has two. | ||
| Svh |
Those more than likely are XR1200R not XR1200X models. BIG difference | ||
| Sekalilgai |
this is like crack (or so I heard)! Court, hey can I buy you dinner and conversation if I came up to NY? | ||
| Boltrider |
I think a certain someone posted and then deleted it. I've seen lots of speculation on non-compete agreements. I even contributed to some of them. But if that info is from who I think it's from, then I think we finally have our answer. So....say 40 months give or take until we all can purchase the next Buell? Maybe 34 months like what was mentioned in another thread. (Message edited by boltrider on November 17, 2009) | ||
| Hex |
Good, that will give me time to pay mine off, and get on the list for the next generation! | ||
| Vampress |
Lemonchili also started this thread over at sportbikes to gauge interest from the guys outside the direct Buell community on the new bike. Glad to report all positive results  http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/general-sportbike s/425983-buell-couldve-been-what-do-you-think.html As Court has stated, Buellers are not the only ones who seem to be disappointed in the decision by HD. Many others just don't approve of the injustice and either support or at least empathise with us. | ||
| Rocketman |
Tamburini retired before HD took over. As for MV being worthless. That depends how you view MV. Things MV are so much different in Europe than the US. We as Europeans only care that MV survive any which way how. We couldn't care less about the money dealings. We are bikers not bankers. Writing off MV as worthless is pretty ignorant. Let's be honest. No more Buells is a little like no more Cobras. No more MV's is more like no more Ferrari's. I'm pretty sure I know which one the motorcycling world would miss the most. Take consolation that at least Buell lived at all and you are richer for it. Rocket | ||
| Dfishman |
What kicked Ferrari's butt in the 60's? An American "homebuilt" car backed by Ford.Cobra!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Rocketman |
Cobra was British, not that it matters. Who would mourn Cobra, or even Ford for that matter, over Ferrari? We are talking pedigree. Buell don't have one. MV have a rich one. That's the bottom line. Harsh but true. Rocket | ||
| Leatherneck |
Not that it matters but the AC Bristol was British. The Cobra is not. However, I agree "Writing off MV as worthless is pretty ignorant. Let's be honest. No more Buells is a little like no more Cobras. No more MV's is more like no more Ferrari's. I'm pretty sure I know which one the motorcycling world would miss the most. Take consolation that at least Buell lived at all and you are richer for it. " Plus 1 | ||
| Court |
Then bikers better buy in . . . . they tried to sell if for €1 and there were no takers. . . what do you reckon it is worth today?  | ||
| Rocketman |
Then bikers better buy in . . . . they tried to sell if for €1 and there were no takers. . . what do you reckon it is worth today? Ancient history. Fact is MV build superb motorcycles. Always have. And they still are. What's sad is you seem unable to accept MV's worth as motorcycles because of what Harley's done to Buell. Rocket | ||
| 4cammer |
"Tamburini retired before HD took over." Huh. I took it that he "retired" because HD took over and terms could not be worked out. | ||
| M2nc |
The AC Cobra is as English as a Buell 1125R is Austrian or an XB12 is Italian. Caroll Shelby contracted the body and the motor, just like Buell contracted the frame and the motor. That said, in its day, the Cobra would eat Ferraris for lunch. Rocket you remind me of a review I read of an F430 Ferrari, a 911 Turbo and a Z06 Corvette. The only category the Ferrari and Porsche beat the Corvette, was price, the Porsche was $40,000 more and the Ferrari was $110,000 more. As for performance, the Corvette was faster. Straight line, one editor commented that he was topped out in the Ferrari watching the Corvette still accelerating away fast. The Corvette out braked, out handled and turned lapped times so much faster you would have thought it was in a different class. At the end, the editors picked Corvette last. Why? It was not a Ferrari or a Porsche. The problem for MV is that unlike Ferrari and Porsche, they do not have a loyal customer base that will keep it going. Plus no business savvy investor wants to pay the taxes for nostalgia. | ||
| Davegess |
MV builds great bikes. As a company they are worthless. H-D will lose almost all the money they put in. The bikes are cool BUT no one has been able to make money out of it so it is worthless from a financial standpoint. Perhaps the Italian government of a bank will keep it afloat BUT if H-D did indeed pay off it's debt than the banks will not care and they wont prop it up. Perhaps Claudio can find another sucker. As far as heritage, what is the relationship between the current company and the one that Ago rode for? Name? There is a 17 year gap between the time MV stopped making bikes and Cagiva started them up again. And Cobras are about as British as the USA is.  | ||
| Court |
>>>At the end, the editors picked Corvette last. Why? It was not a Ferrari or a Porsche. There are some former Corvette owners in our Porsche group. I have no personal knowledge. The Corvette is EVERYTHING you say in your post. Still folks see moving from the Corvette to the Porsche as moving up. In addition . . . and this is what I have heard, not what I know personally to be fact . . the Vette accomplishes some of those things by way of a a really harsh ride. That having been said . . . you really never get the Corvette out of your system. I have a 1972, arguably one of the worst years. My Mom's Ford Falcon Sprint would walk away from it, Fun stuff. The MV thing is easy and not even worth debating . . . . we are in a depressed market, it'd going to be for sale CHEAP and we'll just see what someone pays for it. Why debate what will soon be a sum certain. Who could see a surprise. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Sorry to digress back to the original topic, but Jaimec said: "...a revelation that Erik was essentially FORCED to use that aging lump of a Sportster motor..." Would it be more true to say that BMC was put in a position where they had no choice but to continue using the Sportster based motor rather than sourcing a newer design, and the XB engine is the result? From reading so much stuff since October 15 I'm starting to wonder how many things BMC did (or didn't do) because H-D was holding them back, effectively throttling their ability to grow... Besides continuing with the Sportster mill, here's another few examples I wonder about - 1. One of the design parameters for the 1125R was that it couldn't have a full fairing. Was this an H-D decision? Would it have sold better if it had? 2. Owners have been almost constantly asking for an S3T sport tourer replacement... Did H-D not allow it because it would be more direct competition for their touring models? 3. The dirt bike. I'll agree with Rocket that riders from the U.S. and Europe see MV differently, and the Corvette vs Porsche/Ferrari analogy is a good one. Australian's and Kiwi's are somewhere in the middle (I wouldn't say no to an MV Brutale, hot looking bike ) Please check out that link to sportbikes.net. It seems a lot of people would still like to see an American sportbike. | ||
| M2nc |
Found it. "On paper, the Z06 Corvette is the best car here. It accelerates as quickly as the 911 Turbo through the quarter and wastes both the Porsche and Ferrari at speeds above 120 mph. How about 0 to 150 mph in 17.7 seconds? That's up there in Ford GT territory, if not as stupid fast as a McLaren F1. The Z06 has the most grip at 1.01 g and the best braking performance. On an autobahn, it was still accelerating while the Ferrari was topped out in sixth gear at 186 mph. Around our road course, it was an easy victor, 1.7 seconds quicker than the Porsche on a near-76-second lap. It does all this for about a third of the Ferrari's price. The Z06 is the best performance value in the world, period." http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/06 q3/2006_chevrolet_corvette_z06_vs._2006_ferrari_f4 30_2007_porsche_911_turbo-comparison_tests/2006_ch evrolet_corvette_z06_page_4 | ||
| Court |
Now . . . knowing that . . . and if you could have either . . . . made no difference . . .but you could ONLY have one . . . which would you take? I doubt there is a wrong answer. | ||
| M2nc |
Final note, I am not saying on car is better than another. I use this comparison a lot as an analogy that people's perceptions and actual performance do not always equal. A good comparison to Buell versus MV topic. There Chili, I steered it back on course. |
