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Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 01:54 pm: | 
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Let me know when Texas decides to secede the Union. I will apply for citizenship.
Congress and Senate dont represent you. The represent the constituent bodies that pay to their campaigns, their pacs, their local re-ellection issues and the bribes that come their way.
Think your voice matters? You aint been paying attention to government for way too long.
(how else do you get a liberal democrat voting and lobbying for increased military presence, spending and base allocations in our area?) duh. |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 03:40 pm: |
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quote:Subj: HR: 3962
A few interesting sections in HR: 3962 healthcare bill (especially sec. 399V, 2521/2533 which are basically grants to ACRON and SEIU Union)
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House of Representatives Healthcare Bill , HR:3962
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Sec. 224 (p. 118) provides that 18 months after the bill becomes law, the Secretary of Health and Human Services will decide what a "qualified plan" covers and how much you'll be legally required to pay for it. That's like a banker telling you to sign the loan agreement now, then filling in the interest rate and repayment terms 18 months later.î
Sec. 59b (pp. 297-299) says that when you file your taxes, you must include proof that you are in a qualified plan. If not, you will be fined thousands of dollars. Illegal immigrants are exempt from this requirement.î
Sec. 1114 (pp. 391-393) replaces physicians with physician assistants in overseeing care for hospice patients.
On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17 percent of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20 percent of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.
Sec. 1161 (pp. 520-545) cuts payments to Medicare Advantage plans (used by 20 percent of seniors). Advantage plans have warned this will result in reductions in optional benefits such as vision and dental care.î
Sec. 399V (p. 1422) provides for grants to community 'entities' with no required qualifications except having 'documented community activity and experience with community healthcare workers' to 'educate, guide, and provide experiential learning opportunities' aimed at drug abuse, poor nutrition, smoking and obesity.
Sec.(s) 2521 and 2533 (pp. 1379 and 1437) establishes racial and ethnic preferences in awarding grants for training nurses and creating secondary-school health science programs, only in hospitals that have union representation.
No clue as to if this is accurate . . bit I am trying to read as much as I can. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 06:56 pm: |
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I think that when we start talking in terms of billions and trillions of anything we tend to go numb and not even do the math any more. I know the numbers fluctuate quite a bit but how much are we talking about for each person who is uninsured? We have what, about 30 million uninsured (this doesn't include illegal aliens, they won't get this program, right?). The cost of this program is supposed to be what, 1.3 trillion or so at this point, but I've heard Harry Reid say 2 trillion not long ago. I'm going with 2 trillion just because the government never comes in anywhere near budget, and it tends to get worse as the programs get bigger.
So if these numbers are ball park, that's 30,000,000 uninsured. The cost is $2,000,000,000,000. That makes the per person cost over $66,000 per person.
Now I understand that this is a ten year cost, but the actual insurance is delayed by 3 years if I'm correct. So that would be 7 years of insurance coverage costing about $9,500 per person per year. Keep in mind that this doesn't even consider the people who CAN afford insurance, but choose to be uninsured. These people will supposedly be forced to start buying their own insurance, so my per person estimate should be quite a bit on the low side.
Given that we supposedly talking BASIC health insurance isn't that pretty costly insurance? Why do we need to completely destroy our current system in a way that will certainly make for a worse overall system at such a high price? Keep in mind that the current system already pays for these uninsured when they walk into an ER. I assume that this "savings" (no more uninsured walking into the ER for the sniffles) has been figured in already.
Is my math correct? Did I slip a digit somewhere? Someone please double check my work.
The plan I'm on now costs us about 200 per month to cover the two of us. Half is payed by the employer so total cost is about $4,800 per year. That covers 2 people so that's $2,400 per person per year. WTF! |
Ferris_von_bueller
| | Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 07:14 pm: |
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Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 09:36 pm: |
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You are going to see a slew of people going grey market for salary and benefits, because.... wait for it.... They are talking about automatic payroll deduction for the plan, just like they do now for Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and IRS withholding.
Yep, its change you can live with, you will have to, cuz they are taking the big bills out of your wallet before you see them.
I still think its forced conscription and I am conscientiously objecting to it. |
M2me
| | Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 10:06 pm: |
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Sec. 224 (p. 118) provides that 18 months after the bill becomes law, the Secretary of Health and Human Services will decide what a "qualified plan" covers and how much you'll be legally required to pay for it.
Nope! Sec. 244 does decide what a qualified plan is but it does not decide how much you'll legally be required to pay for it. It is mostly to qualify plans for the "exchange". Plans that are not Exchange-participating do not have to meet the standards under Sec. 224 as strictly as Exchange-participating plans do.
Sec. 59b (pp. 297-299) says that when you file your taxes, you must include proof that you are in a qualified plan. If not, you will be fined thousands of dollars. Illegal immigrants are exempt from this requirement.
This is a mish mash of different sections. Sec. 6050X requires the proof of insurance. Sec. 59b states the tax that will be imposed if you do not carry health care insurance, 2.5 percent of your adjusted gross income. Illegal immigrants are not mentioned, because they are, well, illegal. I don't know how many illegal aliens file income tax returns each year anyway. I'd guess probably close to zero.
Sec. 1114 (pp. 391-393) replaces physicians with physician assistants in overseeing care for hospice patients.
I can not find a Sec. 1114 in the bill as it was passed.
Sec. 1161 (pp. 520-545) cuts payments to Medicare Advantage plans
Sec. 1161 does something but I can't make head or tails of it.
Sec. 399V (p. 1422) provides for grants to community 'entities' with no required qualifications except having 'documented community activity and experience with community healthcare workers' to 'educate, guide, and provide experiential learning opportunities' aimed at drug abuse, poor nutrition, smoking and obesity.
This is actually fairly accurate. It sounds like a good idea to me and I'm sure there are already grants like this being made. The amount appropriated each year is only $30 million.
Sec.(s) 2521 and 2533 (pp. 1379 and 1437) establishes racial and ethnic preferences in awarding grants for training nurses and creating secondary-school health science programs, only in hospitals that have union representation.
One of the preferences in 2521 is to "provide for improving the diversity of the new nurse graduates to reflect changes in the demographics of the patient population". But it's only one of five preferences. To be eligible requires "a health care entity that is jointly administered by a health care employer and a labor union representing the health care employees of the employer" so union representation is accurate. |
M2me
| | Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 10:19 pm: |
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I still think its forced conscription and I am conscientiously objecting to it.
They are going to force you to have health care insurance. All you guys seem pissed off because now you're going to have to go out and get health care insurance. Does anyone else besides me have health care insurance now? Am I the only one? Now I know why I have to pay so much! I'm covering everybody's health care expenses all by myself! |
Guell
| | Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 10:30 pm: |
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M2me, youd be surprised. I know someone who works with the irs. Illegals are assigned a "tax number." its similar to a social, but its just for taxes, the govt wants that money. |
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