| Author | Message | ||
     Cyclonedon |
is there ANYBODY on here that actually buys Chinese motorcycle tires? | ||
| Davegess |
That UCLA study is interesting but you can find a lot of scholarly rebuttal of it. It is by no means the absolute truth of what happened. I have seen others that make valid claims that FDR should have spent more money and it was not until WWII forced teh spending that the economy really recovered. There is evidence to support many theories. The only way to test them is to turn back the clock and do it over. The current stimulus is based on newer therories. Complain all you want but best to hope and pray the theroy is right and it works. The current stand of many Republicans, to just say no and do nothing waiting for the whole thing to collapse is, in my view, a cop out and very anti American. | ||
| Midknyte |
is there ANYBODY on here that actually buys Chinese motorcycle tires?... ...and knows that they did? | ||
| Nobuell |
We need to find another path for economic expansion and set a strategic direction emphasizing it. Our baseline problem now is energy, climate change, and greenhouse gas emissions. If we built an industry to address these problems effectively, we could employ a large part of the labor force for a generation. It is only the baseline if we buy into the climate change and greenhouse crap. There in no proof that this will or can be the next labor boon. Only the Europeans are willing to play. The Chinese and the Indians will laugh at us all the way to the bank. The Europeans will stop playing the game when they have no jobs and their energy costs go through the roofs. Just one more silly tax on the american people. Well, at least Al Gore will make a fortune! | ||
| Chellem |
The current stand of many Republicans, to just say no and do nothing waiting for the whole thing to collapse is, in my view, a cop out and very anti American. And I'm afraid that the current leaders are just doing SOMETHING, ANYTHING to make it look like they know what they're doing. There may be something to be said for stepping back and allowing the market to correct itself. Tinkering here, poking there, throwing money here, moving it over there - it doesn't CREATE wealth, it just scootches it a little. Or, borrows it from another country. With the expectation that we'll give it back someday. How'd you like to be the one to open THAT bill? And it assumes that the people in charge have ALL the facts, and know what they're doing. Considering the fact that we're in essentially uncharted territory here, I'm just not as secure that forcing the market is going to work. I know, we are men of action (so to speak) and to sit back and take a breath and see what happens goes against everyone's nature, who's to say that's wrong? Some people seem to think it's right, and they are also very smart people. Not sure they're playing chess 3 moves ahead like Obama, but still, they're PRETTY smart. | ||
| Liquorwhere |
We need to find another path for economic expansion and set a strategic direction emphasizing it. Our baseline problem now is energy, climate change, and greenhouse gas emissions. Our baseline problem is infrastructure to the tune of $4.4 Trillion (with a T) to get us back to where we should be without being planning for the future, that bill will be higher. Economic expansion will only come when we as a country can be efficient in our use, like say not be Atlanta that leaches a mere 18 million gallons of water a day, or the State of Maryland, or possibly not be the current electrical grid that has needed a makeover for 40 years....almost forgot, be careful going over bridges to protest, they might collapse on you. President Obama has made a start in the right direction in the current stimulus package which includes important initiatives and incentives to jump start this, all the while China is ALREADY doing it with the aid of government subsidies. We are already buying Chinese windmills fer crissakes...when we should be making them. The right direction was to let mismanaged companies FAIL, you know the capitalist way...make the accountability actually fall on the people that managed the companies, next not do a stimulus plan that includes shovel projects for community centers that have to be added to the tax roles to staff and maintain while ignoring the crumbling streets, bridges, sidewalks and grids around you. If you really want to play the blame game, look to FDR, he perfected the tax, borrow and spend system of economic castastrophe...that's right he inherited that too...right? Whatever. | ||
| Sifo |
So we have a large government using it's economic powers to help selected businesses compete unfairly. BO sees this as something that must be addressed to re-leveled the playing field. BO's supporters support this decision as being the right thing to do. Here's where it gets confusing to me. I've just described what BO wants to do to our health care system. Use the power of the government to provide another option for people to purchase "more competitive" insurance from a provider propped up by the government. Again BO supporters support this as the right thing to do. To the consumer and the US based business these are EXACTLY the same thing. Why in the liberal world is it good in one case, but needs protective tariffs in another case? I just don't get that at all. Does anyone really believe that there wont be unintended consequences from this tariff program. There always is. Bottom line is that we should never have fought to bring China into the WTO and start doing business with them. We also should not use the power of the US government to unfairly "compete" with health care providers. What you will end up with is the equivalent of cheap "made in China" health care. This entire message is racist and should be flagged for review at www.whitehouse.gov/turn-in-your-neighbor | ||
| Jimidan |
The right direction was to let mismanaged companies FAIL, you know the capitalist way... Easy for you to say...you haven't read much about the great depression, have you? My Dad was in it and his stories are awful. The unfettered market is a dangerous thing, which rules by greed alone. That is a big part of the problem that we are in today. If we do not address our energy usage, climate change and greenhouse gas emissions, our crumbling infrastructure will not matter. I say this even though my home town is 53 miles upstream of an 84 year old rockfill-dam that is 300 feet high and 1000 feet wide and has leaked since day one. It is constructed to a now discredited design. If it failed, it would be here in less than 3 hours with a wave of slurry (trees, houses, barns, cars, over 1200 - 50' plus steel hulled houseboats, etc.) that would be moving at 20 MPH and be 35 ' OVER the floodwall. But surely, there is a huge demand for infrastructure renewal also, but unfortunately, it is funded by the government 100%. Addressing the green industries will generate wealth and jobs in the private sector. We seem to be a lot more concerned about the infrastructure in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is funny how they can always get the money (borrow, print, etc.) for these endless/useless wars, as Ron Paul calls them. | ||
| Sifo |
The problem with the economy and who get the blame is that there is really very little the government can really do to "fix" a faltering economy. Basically the best you can hope for is that the government doesn't strangle the economy by preventing businesses from doing what they need to do. On the other hand almost everything that the government does to try to manage the economy is fraught with unintended consequences. Each successive fix for the last fix just makes it that much harder for a business to plan for the future. This leads to the 6 month planning cycle because you don't know what the new rules will be in 12 months. Then you wonder why businesses make so many short sighted decisions??? | ||
| Jimidan |
And I'm afraid that the current leaders are just doing SOMETHING, ANYTHING to make it look like they know what they're doing. How do you know? This stuff is very complicated...I had graduate level econ courses, and I still do not understand it. There is no real consensus on how to do it, and with the highly politicized nature of the debaters, there is very little objectivity. Let's give these guys a chance to try it their way before you summarily dismiss them (which it sounds like you are going to do anyway). We have seen clearly what does not work, and that is allowing the free market economy to sort itself out. | ||
| Sifo |
Addressing the green industries will generate wealth and jobs in the private sector. This is one of the biggest farces of modern times. The idea that building a "green" power plant will "produce jobs". Will building a coal power plant not produce jobs and provide proven energy that is affordable. Global warming theory regarding CO2 is failing in a grand fashion and no amount of claiming the debate is over will be able to save it from reality. | ||
| Jimidan |
So we have a large government using it's economic powers to help selected businesses compete unfairly. Sifo, your basic premise is wrong, jaded and politically motivated. A little learning is a dangerous thing. The stimulus money went to certain businesses that deregulation had allowed to grow too big to fail, and mix risk taking investing with banking. That is NOT what President Obama wants to do with the health care system, either. Too much teabagging is a dangerous thing. If you ask the wrong questions, how do you expect to get the right answers? | ||
| Sifo |
How do you know? This stuff is very complicated...I had graduate level econ courses, and I still do not understand it. There is no real consensus on how to do it, and with the highly politicized nature of the debaters, there is very little objectivity. Let's give these guys a chance to try it their way before you summarily dismiss them (which it sounds like you are going to do anyway). We have seen clearly what does not work, and that is allowing the free market economy to sort itself out. Here lies the problem... The economy is a very chaotic system. The more you try to micro manage a chaotic system the more it gets out of control. The more it spirals out of control we can just blame Bush for the last 8 years though. Fear not for BO is 3 steps ahead of the game though. It's just that there are trillions of steps in the game.  As for the free market sorting it self out you seem to fail to realize how government regulations put the free market in the current situation. That takes us back decades of steps. | ||
| Sifo |
Sifo, your basic premise is wrong, jaded and politically motivated. A little learning is a dangerous thing. The stimulus money went to certain businesses that deregulation had allowed to grow too big to fail, and mix risk taking investing with banking. That is NOT what President Obama wants to do with the health care system, either. Too much teabagging is a dangerous thing. If you ask the wrong questions, how do you expect to get the right answers? Ummm... I'm referring to the topic of this thread. China using it's government to produce tires at unrealistic prices that the free market can't compete with. Thanks for the ad hominem attack though. | ||
| Aesquire |
The stimulus money went to certain businesses that deregulation had allowed to grow too big to fail, and mix risk taking investing with banking. Um, half right. The second half, about investments & banking. The first half, about deregulation, dead wrong. The housing bubble resulted from BAD regulation, not de-regulation. The forcing of banks to loan money to people who were high risk to pay it back, was regulation. The yuppie scum who took advantage of the new regulations are, in large part, responsible for the most money lost in house loans, ( though the most # of loans defaulted may be in the income sector that the regulation was supposed to help.....) but the poor guy buying a 40K house he struggled to pay for was not the problem, it was the "flip this house" guys who bought 300k houses, and when the payback was delayed, & went "upside down" dumped it, just as the Harvard MBA types preach. The REAL problem was not the bubble. They happen, people go crazy & invest stupidly, and get screwed. That's normal, It's been going on since Tulip bulbs cost more than gold. BUT, when some bozo got the idea that you could not only sell debt, as stock, CDO's. but insure it & sell the same thing to more than one person, the money involved became imaginary, and Wall Street, and certainly the tax cheats in govt. service still don't know where the money went. It was never there. When regulatory agencies & the prev. admin. tried to get a handle on it, they were stonewalled by Congress, especially the lovely Frank, Dodd, etc. So, yeah, this stated to go south under Bush, but was not all his fault, darn it, because I'd love to blame it all on him. I do blame Bush listening to the experts who arranged things so their buddies made out while others failed, but that isn't confined to the prev. admin. it is the continued policy of the current one, with a nice dash of class hatred & utter intolerance of disagreement that reminds us old farts of Stalin, Mao, and Castro. Having fans of those mass murderers as high level cronies in this admin. is not good for anyone who values freedom & choice. The fall of the market started when Barack Hussain Obama was nominated, on promises of higher taxes on the rich, and hatred of Wall Street. Smart money pulled out first, bought Gold, land, cheap, and protected their stash. I would argue cause and effect based on political fear. But why bother arguing? Since you already are using sexual insults to describe those who disagree with you, ( teabagging ) I suppose I should just ignore a childish, immature fool. Too bad. If you were capable of reasoned discussion, we might both learn something, but I doubt you are from your treatment of others.  On the tariff subject, I thought the tariff on 700+ CC bikes ended early when H-D requested it, since they felt it had done it's job. That MAY be the only case where tariffs actually worked. They usually fail to get the desired result. Isolationism & major tariffs caused the 1929 crash & subsequent depression. Let's not go there. Yesterday I dropped my Van off at the repair shop, got the call, needs ball joints. Communist Chinese 1 year parts that are hard to install, cost half the American made, lifetime parts that slide right in. The Owner of the garage is a christian fellow, after he gave me the prices, and started trying to sell me the good bits, I interrupted with "buy the parts not made with slave labor that actually work, please". Labor costs to replace are about $300. saving $150 on parts to pay $300 more in 1 year isn't sane. It is however how government works. | ||
| M2me |
That UCLA study is interesting but you can find a lot of scholarly rebuttal of it. For instance, for the economy to have recovered by 1936 would have required an average GDP growth of nearly 17%! That's just pure fantasy. FDR was inaugurated March 4, 1933, nearly three and a half years into the Great Depression. Why were Hoovervilles called Hoovervilles and not Rooseveltvilles? The UCLA study completely ignores that fact and "calculates" growth rates and wage rates where "they should be" based on pure fiction. And then they compare unemployment figures from the 1930s with modern figures. Apples to oranges. That's like saying the freezing point of water was 32 degrees in 1936 but only 0 degrees in 2009 and leave out the fact that you are comparing Fahrenheit to Celsius numbers. | ||
| Liquorwhere |
Easy for you to say...you haven't read much about the great depression, have you? My Dad was in it and his stories are awful. Yes it is easy for me to say because it the right thing to say, it was the right thing to do. My grandmother was a widowed 20 yo new mother in 1934 after my grandfather was cut in half by a snapped drag-line cable while logging. My father's first years of life were in that depression you speak of and my grandmother was an amazing woman to have lived through it. I think I have heard as many stories about the depression from my grandmother and her sisters and brothers while growing up as you have. I have read about the depression with a great interest because I wanted to understand why and how it came to be. Obviously if you picked out this one line from my statement to react to you have no other point to make in rebuttal or genuine debate. I feel for your living situation but as there are other places to live and you KNOW you are in the kill zone I find it astonishing that you would choose to stay and then expect to use it as a validation that you understand the crumbling of a nation. I think you need to read " The richest man in babylon" and review the rules of gold, it may do you good. Also you should read up on why the greatest empire the world had ever seen....ROME, crumbled under it's own weight...social programs are a bitch to keep going. I would like to point out to all of those that would say the Republican party saying NO to a democratic president and think that is a bad thing, then should you simply look at Newt Gingrich and Bill Clinton. Clinton even had a speech where he stated that every time they went to congress for money and appropriations he was told NO NO NO NO NO and he pounded his fist on the podium to emphasize this point. If I remember correctly all those NO's resulted in a SURPLUS in the budget, an economy that was hot and growing and a fiscal budget that was under control and the only NO Clinton issued was on a balanced budget amendment. Someone has to say NO, to curb the bleeding of our tax dollars or we will be drown even further in the spend on social programs to win elections political machine that targets those with very little and gives them enough to make it seem like they care, but actually do them no favors and in fact keep those people poor and in their place, the same tactics that have been in place for the Democratic party since Kennedy and Johnson, but truly conceived by FDR and the New Deal. This administration is no different from the Bush administration with the rush to seize control and power and tilt anything they can in the favor of STAYING in power damn the torpedo's or the suffering of those they are supposed to represent. The only way we can control this is to VOTE THEM ALL OUT and start fresh with people that will get one term to do the job of governing by the people's will or they are out on their asses too. We cannot afford to keep sending career politicians back to the seat of power over and over again and still expecting different resutls....insanity anyone???? | ||
| M2me |
BUT, when some bozo got the idea that you could not only sell debt, as stock, CDO's. but insure it & sell the same thing to more than one person, the money involved became imaginary, and Wall Street, and certainly the tax cheats in govt. service still don't know where the money went. It was never there. That is correct. When regulatory agencies & the prev. admin. tried to get a handle on it, they were stonewalled by Congress, especially the lovely Frank, Dodd, etc. That is wrong. What caused the crash was not regulation, but the lack of regulation. It was caused by the repeal of the Glass–Steagall Act with the passage of the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act. This was the culmination of Reagan's "government is not the solution, government is the problem" and "get government off our backs" mantra. The GLB act got government off the backs of the financial industry and the rest is history. The largest economic downturn since the Great Depression. We failed to learn from history so we repeated it. | ||
| Court |
>>> Global warming theory regarding CO2 is failing in a grand fashion and no amount of claiming the debate is over will be able to save it from reality. Aslo why NYC has one of the smallest "carbon footprints" in America because a significant amount of our power is nuclear. There are 4 new plants currently proposed (new sites) and about a dozen applications for new plants on existing sites. They'll be Westinghouse, G.E. or Betchel. | ||
| Jimidan |
This is one of the biggest farces of modern times. The idea that building a "green" power plant will "produce jobs". Once again, that is not what I said. However, building the whole green infrastructure which includes the super grid, collectors, windmills, etc. will definitely produce jobs. Even with nukes, it still will not be enough considering the population explosion that is occurring. Global warming theory regarding CO2 is failing in a grand fashion and no amount of claiming the debate is over will be able to save it from reality. Ah yes, another member of the Flat Earth Society  ...ever heard of peer-reviewed science? Didn't think so. Anyway, not that I am going to wow you with the facts or anything, but there is not one, not even ONE peer-reviewed study that refutes global warming is occurring and that it is no man-made. Not one. There is no debate on whether global warming is real amongst the peer reviewed scientists...that was over a long time ago. If this theory is "failing" prove it by citing just one peer-reviewed study...just one. The only debate is whether we have the stones to man-up and try to address it in spite of our greed and short-sighted approaches to problems, or let it take its course. In essence, since we are a naturally occurring species, we have every right to create the conditions necessary to end our own existence. It probably is already too late anyway, with the current population explosion...how are we ever going to reverse that? Think of the religious and political (really one in the same) ramifications of addressing this problem, much less those naysayers like you who have bought in to the industries' agenda to obscure. Don't trust your own lying eyes, trust the industry that has plenty to gain by keeping things just the way they are. | ||
| Jimidan |
The problem with the economy and who get the blame is that there is really very little the government can really do to "fix" a faltering economy. Sure there is. And there is plenty government can do to allow those so inclined to run it into the ditch for short term gain...just like what has happened in the last 8 years. | ||
| Jimidan |
Since you already are using sexual insults to describe those who disagree with you, ( teabagging ) I suppose I should just ignore a childish, immature fool. I was most certainly NOT referring to anything sexual in my use of the word "teabagging"...thank you very much. Your mind is in the gutter, or you are gay. Don't you know what teabaggers are? Aren't you one of them? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Jimidan... no need for insulting us calling us "flat earthers". And your statement is patently false on it's face. If it was a cold hard fact that man made CO2 was causing global warming, there would be global warming. And, for the last few years, there hasn't been global warming. That's the cold hard fact. So you are left with "well, man made global warming is making a natural cooling cycle less dramatic". But that implies that there is a natural heating and cooling cycle, and that it is much more significant then the impact of man, at least for the present. That, again, is a cold hard fact...otherwise the temperature would not have dropped over the last few years. I think most global warming skeptics aren't discounting the possibility of anthropomorphic global warming. They are simply saying "Many people (including Al Gore) are making wild assertions not supported by facts", and "Your models for the non human contribution to climate change are far from complete, and they are much better then your models for human contributions to climate change" and "the facts you have so far do not justify wholesale destruction of economies and livelyhoods... pour your own lives and fortunes into it if you wish, but I have my own faith system to pursue". Millions of years before the first human lit a fire, the earth was both nearly completely frozen (several miles of ice on top of New York City) and nearly completely thawed (northern siberia was more like the midwest US today). This was due to many causes, all unrelated to human activity. Who is to say all the CO2 that was greedily captured and hoarded by precambrian and triassic jungles doesn't have a right to be free? Who are we to deny the trees and plants their man source of food? Why shouldn't the planet be warmer? Today, environmentalism is synonymous with dogma, not science. And environmentalists have nobody to blame but themselves for that. That's not to say environmentalists are always wrong... like any other dogma (and a broken clock) they will be right some of the time. Nobody with a brain disbelieves global warming, or global cooling for that matter. There are, however, a lot of smart people skeptical of anthropogenic catastrophic global warming. | ||
| Sifo |
I was most certainly NOT referring to anything sexual in my use of the word "teabagging"...thank you very much. Your mind is in the gutter, or you are gay. Don't you know what teabaggers are? Aren't you one of them? Jimidan, you can't be this naive. Of course it is a gay sexual reference. That is why the left uses the term. BTW according to the left this should be a hate crime. Thanks for being a stereotypical hypocritical leftist for us all to see. When you are in denial that your use of the term teabagger is not a sexual reference you prove that you are not worthy of dialog. You talk of a new economic theory as something that is proven. Is this more recent than the new economic theory that was all the rage during the 1990's when people were claiming that a company didn't need to have revenue to be profitable. I'm guessing that this is the new economic theory that you are boasting about. That theory went bust along with the bubble that it emerged from. I have doubts that you even know what peer review means in publishing a scientific paper. There is nothing in the peer review process that even verifies the most basic of facts. Having said that there are peer review papers published all the time that refute the CO2/global warming link. Your denial of such simply speaks to your ignorance while you are boasting of your knowledge. Anyone who really thinks that the economy or the climate are things that can be controlled and managed really knows very little. Thanks for playing, now go away until you learn how to have a conversation. | ||
| Sifo |
On the tariff subject, I thought the tariff on 700+ CC bikes ended early when H-D requested it, since they felt it had done it's job. That MAY be the only case where tariffs actually worked. That tariff was back in my early riding years. It didn't last very long. It was my understanding at the time the the tariff really wasn't very effective. It really just made the importers adjust the bike classifications a bit. The 750 class that ruled back then just got sleeved down a bit. Who really thinks that the difference between a 700 and a 750 is going to make that much of a difference in performance? The problem is that the Japanese responded by putting other tariffs on US goods. We didn't win on that round of tariffs. I don't see us winning on this round of tariffs either. | ||
| Aesquire |
The term "teabagging" was & is used by leftist media types to discredit the "tea party" gatherings that disagree with this admin's policies. If you are unaware of it's sexual meaning, then you are probably unaware of it's actual usage in this context. That is to demean & discredit any idea's that disagree with the agenda pushed by the "right thinking" people who train children to sing hymns in praise of the Great Leader, use marxist/alinski-ite tactics to suppress dissent, and care little about objective truth since the religion is more important than reality. Here, if you want to live that religion properly, you should read their own "bible". http://www.amazon.com/Rules-Radicals-Saul-Alinsky/ dp/0679721134/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=12575 30548&sr=8-1 The book contains the blueprint for the Obama campaign, Hillary's thesis, and the communist revolution in modern America. Funny, your profile indicates a rational libertarian viewpoint, the antithesis of the above book & seeming attitude. I never have "teabagged" though I consider myself somewhat adventurous sexually, never been into demeaning acts with a woman. Lots of other things enjoyable to both, but I have to admit, I wouldn't know what "teabagging" is if not for a certain computer game that allowed repetitive squatting over virtual corpses. It was quite a joke in gaming circles till the teenagers moved on. M2me, I meant that ..stonewalled by Congress... specific to the housing crisis, the massive theft of taxpayer money at Fannie Mae by criminals who were protected by their buddies in Congress. Former members of the Clinton gang, they lied to get millions in bonuses, and are still protected by politicians they gave megabucks to. Pure corruption. Now, the wiki slow blog is NOT a reliable source, but... this says that although the evil Republicans were the driving force behind the repeal of the Glass–Steagall Act it happened with bi-partisan support under Clinton. Not Regan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagal l_Act Looks to me like it's repeal was a bad idea. But I'm not a banker. Still not sure I should buy CITI group, like my buddy keeps telling me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm%E2%80%93Leach%E 2%80%93Bliley_Act Wiki says that Clinton, ( who signed the act) and Obama, ( who has actions of his own he wants ) don't agree on the results of that Act. Hmm. I certainly don't trust Slick Willie, and don't Barack Hussain Obama, hmmm, hmmm, hmmm, so I'll have to go with results. Bad regulations, not de-regulations. Some law was passed that let banks sell mortgage debt ( and insurance to same ) to multiple parties, covered by govt, promises to pay. Otherwise people who deserve to be would be in jail for ripping off the planet. I agree than NO regulations is bad. Bad regulations can be worse, but you have to try hard. Congress tries really hard. Chinese tires, my observation is obsolete, the old ones rode like 30 year old linoleum. Tried them on a buddies Honda. Bought him Metzlers for Christmas. I assume the current crop range from not horrid to industrial waste. Repicheep, you got the "global warming" con correct. (Message edited by aesquire on November 06, 2009) | ||
| Sifo |
So I was hoping that a BO supporter would chime in and explain how they are against the Chinese government using it's weight to "compete" in the tire market, but yet they support the US government using it's weight to "compete" in the health insurance market. Please come out and explain this one to me. I know you're out there, I just have a desire to understand what makes you tick. (Not you Jimidan, you've worn out your welcome with me.) | ||
| Cyclonedon |
is this a tire thread or another political rant? | ||
| Court |
>>>I thought the tariff on 700+ CC bikes ended early when H-D requested it, Correct. This "hope and change" isn't as much fun as I thought it was gonna be . . . but then again I bought into the "shovel ready" (almost none have commenced) project that would insure we stopped unemployment "before it reaches 8%". In all fairness . . . for a neighborhood organizer from Chicago he's done okay during his OJT. About 2 more years of this and folks will begin to grow weary. Eager to see him hit the tube this evening and tell us about everything he inherited from the previous administration. Ya pretty mych get what ya pay for . . . | ||
| Ceejay |
get what ya pay for...? 1.2 T should have gotten us quite a bit better/further don't ya think? If were gonna get back on topic, I've purchased Toyo tires for my ford truck. Excellent tires. Good in mud, weren't squirelly when hauling a skidsteer, nor 2T of rock(in a 3/4T I might add) and lasted over 50,000 miles. I seriously doubt that things will get better or worse regardless of where Toyo moves its manufacturing to. The problem with our economy is as Chellem put it. We want too much for too little. In somewhat of a screwed up world most of us as judging from my neighbors(and I'm guilty of it too) would rather pay a cheap price for something we would have to continue buying than an expensive price for something we will only have to buy once. After you fall into that mode of thinking it can become impossible to get out of it what you put into it. We are, somewhat slowly, moving to a world market. It will get there, to a point where as a "community" every country is good at something. What do we, as a country, want to be good at? |
