| Author | Message | ||
     Doerman |
I'll never question a person's motivation for buying a bike. It is up to them. The ad that started this thread is what it is. I have no problem with that either. It does not stir me, but that's ok. The dealer that sent it to Jamiec made a big mistake! How insulting to send that ad to a guy that just bought a Buell. Especially right now. If the MoCo survives or not, meh.. It's up to them. I'm cold on them, but that is my deal, not theirs. | ||
| Xl1200r |
I remember, after owning my Sportster for a year, I had it back at the dealership for the annual state inspection. Next to me was a guy waiting for same thing with his Softail Duce, all decked out. The owner of the dealership was filling out the inspections and the conversation went kind of like this: Owner: Mileage? Me: 5,200. (finishes my inspection). Owner (to the HD bada$$): Mileage? HD Bada$$: 1,300. Me (in a joking fashion): Man, you gotta ride that thing! HD Bada@@: It's only an '04 (this was in '05) Owner: So is his! loved it. | ||
| Limitedx1 |
HD owners compared to Buell owners just in numbers im sure is staggering. its only a geezer crowd because most young people cant afford them. i would have one if they werent big money. and im young and i own a buell. the HD bashing just seems childish to me, along with a few other people on here, you have to look at what they did to keep the main product alive wether it was true or not or for whatever reason. yes im a buell rider, yes i like harleys, yes i will buy one for my own reasons. its like buying a bentley, does it do anything better than any other car----no, but its a bentley and everyone knows it. if you ride a jap cruiser the first response you get from people is that your cheap.....you have a HD and people just go wow. call it stereotype or whatever but thats the way it is. yes it is unfortunate what happened to buell........ there has to be more to the story.......... | ||
| Arcticktm |
Even if I thought I had made a mistake (say with a metric cruiser or such), I would never tell a salesperson that. And I would not respond well to an add that was trying to "call me out". I am plenty smart enough to "get it" and know this was not targeted at Buell owners. That does not change the fact that it is a very polarizing add, and is unlikely to bring too many bikes in on trade. I suppose the only positive is that it is claiming that your local HD dealer is willing to take any bike in on trade, and not just HD's. | ||
| Xbrad9r |
I would love to know if that ad was sent to all of their customers or just the Buell customers in their database. The original poster of this thread said he had bought 3 Buells at this dealership, so maybe it is directed at the Buell owners. I personally took offense to it and drew that conclusion...if you didn't maybe you are a better man than I. | ||
| Reepicheep |
My concern for Harley is that they are trying to get back to a core business that doesn't exist anymore. A Harley was a stretch goal. A person would find a way to buy one, but pay a LOT of interest on it, and spend a lot more money bolting "stuff" to it. And buying $50 t-shirts. This worked, because times were good and people kept doing better and better (or could at least keep spiraling into more and more debt). And the bikes didn't depreciate fast. For their part, the bikes Harley makes are REALLY GOOD CRUISERS and people wanted cruisers. Now, the "other cruisers" are pretty darn nice. The gap has closed. Individuals are either crashing and burning under the weight of the debt they accumulated, or wisely reducing their own debt. The market for used motorcycles has them depreciating dramatically. People actually look at the money they are spending, and aren't going to spend $50 on a short sleeve t-shirt, no matter how cool you make it. I have a bad feeling that Harley Corporate is doubling down on a bet for a business model that no longer exists... | ||
| Limitedx1 |
65 posts of opinion and slander.......sorry im a realist and i just cant wait until a formal press release comes out to the decisions leading up to the closing of buell. until then----oh well, because they dont make my bike anymore anyways. just like court has stated......the v rod has cost them more than buell combined so even if every buell owner calls HD it probably wont do very much... taken from another thread something along the lines of "most HD owners have no idea what a buell is" that statement is 100% true | ||
| Xbrad9r |
This is an email that they are sending to their own customers, not a mailer that they are broadcasting out to the general public. Who are we supposed to believe it is targeted at, maybe all the Vrod customers??? | ||
| Eor |
The similarities between the H-D and GM business models are interesting. Short sighted management that allowed the company to get dangerously in debt while target fixated on marketing and financing high margin products [Tahoe/ Electra Glide] to people who may or may not have been able to afford them [GMAC/ HDFS] In their defense, you have to make what the consumer wants, but circumstances can effect demand faster than a large corporation can adapt. Questionable investments in foreign manufacturer [Opel / MV Augusta] Investment in a niche subsidiary brand in attempt to expand market share. [Saturn/ Buell] A Union workforce guided by a sense of entitlement. Going to the government, hat in hand, in attempt to slow the bleeding [TALF]. Jettisoning foreign and subsidiary brands in desperate attempt to raise capital [Opel and Saturn/ MV Augusta and Buell]. Is bankruptcy the inevitable outcome for H-D? H-D appears to have had slightly better management, or perhaps better luck, than GM. Their time lines are a little out of phase but to me the similarities are astonishing. Closing Buell and putting MV Augusta on the block are "circle the wagon" moves. Maybe it will buy them the time they need, but hey had better being developing something for the next generation of RUBS who didn't grow up watching "The Wild One," "Then Came Bronson," or "Easy Rider" Underperforming subsidiaries and pissed off enthusiasts aren't their main problem -- Warren Buffet and his $300-$700 million loan (depending on the source) at 15% is the 800 pound gorilla in the room, however. I'm extremely annoyed at Harley-Davidson right now, trying to fight the impulse to sell my Dyna so I can finally be rid of the brand. The problem is...I like the damn thing so much. I just hate the moronic subculture that seems to come as a standard accessory -- ironically the only one. (Message edited by eor on October 29, 2009) | ||
| Spatten1 |
Damn Eor, well put together. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
CLUELESS any CEO of ANY company that will spend millions (125 is what I've heard) to stop producing a product and not at least try to sell it off, in my opinion is CLUELESS!!! How many motorcycles will Harley have to make and sell before they even get back to the break even point for the money they are spending to close down Buell? With this current economy sputtering like it is, we may not see Harley making a true profit again in our lifetime. Any business that throws away money like Harley did on October 15, is in for a real rough time. Maybe they plan on raising the prices on their motorcycles, you know the ones I'm talking about, the ones that are not selling now! Keith Wandell is CLUELESS!!! | ||
| Dennis_c |
One day i might get a Harley when i get old 66.8 now i hope its not for many yrs. 3 Buells in the last 11 yrs. | ||
| Patches |
How are they "CLUELESS" when the Executives are stuffing there pockets so full of Money so Fast they don't know what to do with it? It is not just H-D and GMC but all of Corporate America and Companies around the World. Look at the Bonuses the Banks are Giving out this year. They don't give a sh** about working class people. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
One of the main principles taught in freshman economics is the business life cycle:  Sometimes that life cycle is 107 years. | ||
| Jammin_joules |
From another board: "I have my loaded 2007 Uly with < 5000 miles with an extended warranty for 4 more years and unlimited miles (for what that's worth) on the classifieds." Obviously a Harley owner not worthy of owning a Buell, at least if some here would have their way. Thing is, without more people like that, Buell is struggling to make sufficient sales to ... oh wait, that was two weeks ago. Too late. | ||
| Jammin_joules |
taken from another thread something along the lines of " most HD owners have no idea what a buell is... " that statement is 100% true . . . . . . .......o~'o Buell sales here are 60% of the district we are in and let me say that until the fire sale last week, at least 65% of our sales were to Harley owners. If you throw in others who used to own a Harley before buying a Buell, it is probably something like 85%.} | ||
| Reepicheep |
Ouch. From a link Court posted:
(http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/ private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=4301685) Financial Services (who do nothing but collect interest from loans they chose to make and structure) lost $62,000,000 in 4 months. Yeah. Clearly closing Buell will fix that right up.  | ||
| Daveswan |
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| Spatten1 |
Financial Services (who do nothing but collect interest from loans they chose to make and structure) lost $62,000,000 in 4 months. That can't possibly be people buying more than they can afford on borrowed money, can it? I'll be they let the Harley go before the house or the car. | ||
| Court |
Good time to "refocus". | ||
| Court |
By the way . . . . I agree that most (perhaps "many", but I'd not argue against "most" Harley-Davidson customers didn't know what a Buell is. I continue to be amazed at how few folks are aware of a product that Harley-Davidson Marketing has been responsible for getting the word out on since 1993. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Alright, since I am no longer bound by any contractual regulations or requirements. I will tell you how the fliers work. H-D Net has a rotating stock of mailers and ad copy that a dealer can select (usually about 3 per quarter) They are bulk mailers. It is up to the individual owner dealership to decide where those fliers go. From a corporate stand point, you can get to everyone that has bought a bike through a specific shop, anyone that has logged an authorized demo, anyone that filled out a credit app, registered for a contest or survey.... Now on a local level, you can also get at all the people that are registered motorcycle endorsed owners in your area (this was the list that I used, and you gotta be a bit sneaky to get it) The bulk mailers are a shot gun affect. They are meant to drive curiousity to the store. you get about 2 sales per flier; specifically because of the flier (a good sales guy will source your customer and target what works) These things are seemingly free to the store so they get sent at bulk rate. I would treat it with all the other CART-Sort, Resident Mail you get. It is worthless. All of my mail was hand written, personal invitations to the store, never a disparage on what you are riding, or not riding. Its a dunderheaded flier. Everybody likes their bike for a reason. Sure there are always misgivings, but if you go on a personal attack of the owners and their 'wrong' decision, it is an adversarial role; and you are not winning any conversion sales that way. That flier is a product of some marketing group, not a sales professional that makes (or doesnt) make a living on the sport of riding. (yes I said riding, not sitting) Want to make a real impact? call the dealer and tell them to remove you from their mailing list, and why. They will start to pay attention. | ||
| Xbrad9r |
i work in the car business, but one of my wholesalers who has a son that runs a motorcycle dealership, was not aware of the Buell closure...i did tell him to let his son know that if anyone wants to trade in a Buell in the future call me for a "buy offer" when he appraises it. | ||
| Danger_dave |
>>Up until the early 1970's, Harley-Davidsons were the epitome of touring bikes and performance bikes.<< Triumph owner falls off chair. :-) | ||
| Xl1200r |
Haha, Dave - As good as a Bonnie was, an XLCH was all over it in terms of power. Handling? Probably better. This is a Harley, after all, lol. | ||
| Swordsman |
Joules, you keep saying Buell was sinking. Where are the numbers you've been looking at? (I don't mean that to sound accusatory, BTW, I just can't think of a better way to write it out. I'm genuinely curious... seems like there are too many different sets of "facts" floating around) ~SM | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Why are some of you surprised? They (HD) are just saying what they have always felt. I wish politicians would do the same. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
I continue to be amazed at how few folks are aware of a product that Harley-Davidson Marketing has been responsible for getting the word out on since 1993. I hadn't even heard of Buell back in 1998 when I went to the closest Harley store wanting to buy a Harley. Only when Keith Ulicki talked me into taking a test ride on a Buell, I bought it! It has always been fun trying to explain to people I see while out riding what a Buell is. I use to joke with them telling them that it's a "half of a Harley", but I won't be doing that anymore. Like Erik explained on the Oct 15 video, it's a world class motorcycle! Now one can only think what if Harley had an actual plan for a marketing campaign to show off all the great features that Buells have so maybe more folks could have had the pleasure to actually own one. | ||
| Jaimec |
Cityslicker... did that the moment I got that obnoxious mailing. Thanked them for the years of service they provided, but I'll no longer be giving them my business. Since they dropped the Buell line (before the announcement), I've no further reason to go in there anymore anyway. | ||
| Jaimec |
Just a reminder to what I'd posted in other threads regarding Keith Wandell and the board's decision regarding Buell: Whenever upper management makes a bad decision, the only way that decision will change is: 1) They get replaced 2) The company goes under Sadly, that's the truth of Corporate America. |
