| Author | Message | ||
     Buzzie |
Honestly I am wondering if they are closing buell down so that they can redesign the sportster frame and use the xb motor in it. | ||
| Aptbldr |
Would the Thunderstorm be a good cruiser motor? My '04 just hates sustained periods of low rpms & slow/stopped traffic. | ||
| Two_buells |
the XB9R was the test model for the rubber mount Sportster | ||
| 4cammer |
"the XB9R was the test model for the rubber mount Sportster" Then HD better get some better frame designers...that thing is a pig. If I remember correctly it is 50lbs or so heavier than the old solid mounted one. 550lbs dry for the 883 or something like that. | ||
| Froggy |
Isn't the XR1200 basically a XB12 motor with a different throttle body and pipes? | ||
| Endoman33 |
Froggy Nope its not an xb12 motor | ||
| Toecutter |
H-D's XR1200 motor is 90HP, Buell's Thunderstorm 1203 is 103HP. Besides, the XR1200 is 150lbs heavier than the XB, it's suspension is non-adjustable, and is raked out quite a bit more. Not to mention a complete lack of Mass Centralization, or any other Erik Buell innovations. The only thing that I see the XR1200 sharing with a Buell is the idler pulley. The XR1200 is sporty for a Harley, and the coolest bike in their lineup IMO, but it is not even close to an XB. However, the XR1200 would have made for a fantastic sportbike in the mid 70's. | ||
| 4cammer |
When the oil cooled heads appeared on the XR1200 I was a bit curious that Buell did not have that tech first. Surely the XB line could use that, no? | ||
| Froggy |
All XB's are oil cooled. Right from Buell.com "Air/oil/fan-cooled 1203cc ThunderstormŽ V-Twin Engine" Yea I know its not a XB12 motor, but I recall reading that many of the parts including cams and pistons are right out of the 12. I need to find that now. | ||
| Crackhead |
the XR heads have additional oil passages compared to the XB, from what i have heard. | ||
| Trojan |
The XR1200 motor shares a lot with the Thunderstorm engine, with the main differences being cams and heads. The difference in bhp between the XR and the XB12 is mainly due to the restrictive XR1200 airbox and exhaust. XR1200 cylinder heads do have extra cast in oil passages but the valves and head design are the same as the XB12 other than that. | ||
| Toecutter |
I stand corrected then. So to get an XR1200 motor to perform like the Thunderstorm, it needs a better intake and exhaust. Now we just have all that extra weight to take care of, better geometry, and add the suspension components of the Euro-spec XR1200X, and it it begins to become something that I could ride. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Funny, I heard this rumor today, " he (EB) is also selling them designs for an improved vtwin for their sportsters" | ||
| Jaimec |
In order to make the airbox big enough for the engine to breathe properly, I don't think it would look like a "Harley" anymore. Remember: Harley is Form over Function. You'd need something like that big honkin' airbox the old tube-frame Buells used to sport hanging off the right side of the bike. Of course, doing that, you'd lose the advantage of the downdraft intake architecture, too. The engine wouldn't "breathe" as well due to the additional 90 degree change of direction the incoming airflow would have to take. Harley's dilemma is to increase performance without substantially changing the look of the bike. Buell didn't have that constraint. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Paul(Toecutter), why not just buy a tube frame M2 or almost any other Buell with low mileage, add some XR glass, tank, rear section and seat for "the XR look" and have the best of both worlds? Airtech in California has quite a bit to choose from. Add some high pipes and go flat tracking or "street tracking" | ||
| Toecutter |
Thanks Bob. Yes, what you propose would make an interesting project. However, I don't think I made my post clear. I am not looking for an XR that performs like an XB. The intention of my post was to expose what it would take for Harley to make their Sportser Buell-like. The Sportster is boat anchor compared to an XB, and it would need a lot of work to get it to perform like an XB. The Sportster is a standard style motorcycle... there is nothing sporting about it. Granted the XR is something more than that, and has actual sporting roots, but the XB is the REAL "Sportster". | ||
| Sifo |
To make the Sportster more Buell like you need to start with suspension. Then get it so that you can lean it over. Then put some good tires on it. Then put it on a serious diet. Then you might consider pumping up the power on it. Of course if they wanted to address any of the above it could have been done without killing off Buell. I don't think they really want to go that direction. If HD could put chrome on tires they would. | ||
| Gregtonn |
"The difference in bhp between the XR and the XB12 is mainly due to the restrictive XR1200 airbox and exhaust. XR1200 cylinder heads do have extra cast in oil passages but the valves and head design are the same as the XB12 other than that." Another significant difference is the use of pushrod covers on the XB rather than push rod tubes. The covers help eliminate crankcase breathing issues. Once again HD chooses form over function. G | ||
| Aptbldr |
" ...but the XB is the REAL "Sportster". ...." +1 | ||
| Aptbldr |
Daydream: mile dirt-track & prepped XB. | ||
| Aptbldr |
Daydream: rebirth of Grand National Series (dirt ovals, TT's, and road race), and Buell's just blow 'em away! But, it'd probably be those damn 450 singles. | ||
| Paw |
Then HD better get some better frame designers...that thing is a pig. If I remember correctly it is 50lbs or so heavier than the old solid mounted one. 550lbs dry for the 883 or something like that. As far as I can remember haven't Erik and a few of his elves been retained by H-D...And now H-D is stopping production on the sporty for the rest of the year...Maybe Erik will redesign that line...Makes me think they stop production on the sporty maybe to retool and hand the reigns to Erik and the few elves. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
400 lb sporty with inverted forks, ZTL2, Black engine, black wheels, orange body.... damnit I would have to add that to the list of sportster lust. | ||
| Beachbuell |
Good thing nobody is an engineer here. WOW, some of the things I'm reading are scary! And you guys ride these motorcycles. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
I believe Erik is a man of vision, compassion and an engineer that has always wanted to design, race and if he can sell the best bikes he can design in enough quantities to survive and carry on these traditions. For him to work at HD on remaking Sportsters would seem to be a big step back and away from his visions and abilities. He might have to do that for a while, while he regroups, so its not out of the question, but just wait.........! I see him young enough with plenty of time left to accomplish even more then he has already, which has been considerable. I believe he is a ways away from retirement and will have the drive to come back somehow. I just hope I will see that while my own passion for great motorcycles continues. Erik, please, like JFK once said "go forward with vigor", and with your own vision. Its been a good one. Bob |
