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Alii1959
| | Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 11:40 am: | 
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I am not 21 anymore and I ride a GSXR600. Love it. It can be fast if I want, and it is quite tractable on the street. I am not convinced that they lost money on the sale. Further, I am not convinced that it is gutless at any RPM. I have found it quite capable of pulling well in 6th from 20MPH. And, I do agree that it is not a novice bike. While I really enjoyed my ride on the 1125r, I didn't find it as "liveable" on the street as the GSXR. I do find it somewhat aggravating that Buell isn't competing with the 1000cc class bikes well, I do understand why it is lumped in with the 600s. While I understand it, the machinations of the DSB people do give the impression of favoritism. I would love to see the "showroom" bikes compete w/o modifications. Limit the class to horsepower and let 'em race regardless of anything else. Now to the Ducati vs Buell, don't think too many Ducati shoppers are interested in Buell, even if they should be. The Ducatista are as bad or worse about looking down their noses at anything else as are the "gay pirate" Harely guys. And, I, for one, was shocked at the picking of the 1125r by the magazine. I read and reread that article. I like the 1125r, great bike, but do I really believe that it bests the Ducati......I dunno.....JMHO. |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 01:00 pm: |
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quote:The XB series was a mutual effort between HD and Buell. Court himself can tell you that HD engineers took up shop in East Troy. Without HD, that bike may not have been around, with out HD, Buell as we know it may not be around. You do know that the profits made by the XB series directly funded the innovation and development of the 1125 series?
Without HD's investment and purchase of Buell, EB's garage may still be his factory.
That's KINDA right . . . . it most certainly was a collaborative effort and there are some awesome engineers at Harley-Davidson.
Similarly their would be no VR, no XR1200 or no "new" Sportster absent the Buell talent that was lent to the program.
Of note are the folks who, after working with Buell engineering staff, have taken considerable pay and status cuts to leave HD and work with Buell.
As far as the Without HD's investment and purchase of Buell, EB's garage may still be his factory. . . . . that's patently inaccurate. The Harley-Davidson deal was a great thing for Buell. Lord knows how many thousands of firms, including some very large and good ones, have tried to "partner" with Harley-Davidson and failed.
If Harley had not have done the deal with Buell . . . Buell would be a vibrant, innovative and growing company today. Somethings may be different, but the vibrant, innovative and growing I feel quite certain about.
Buell, as some are aware, has done more for Harley-Davidon (and most of it beyond public view) than was ever imagined.
It's been as good a deal for Harley-Davidson as for Buell. |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 03:48 pm: |
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"If Harley had not have done the deal with Buell . . . Buell would be a vibrant, innovative and growing company today."
That's speculation at best, but I admire the passion behind it. |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 09:14 pm: |
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Wrong. It is an extremely well-informed conclusion based on actual experience and information. I agree with it.
For some reason some folks cannot stand to see Buell recognized for their own incredible achievements and they go out of their way to belittle Buell and downplay their accomplishments. |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 09:16 pm: |
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"I have found (the GSXR600) quite capable of pulling well in 6th from 20MPH."
"Pulling well"? From 20 mph in 6th gear?
Credibility gone. |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 09:23 pm: |
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>>>That's speculation at best, but I admire the passion behind it.
No. It's a fact.
But I'm not willing to back it up so we'll settle on "speculation". |
Bads1
| | Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 09:29 pm: |
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I have a neighbor that has a 08 Gixxer 600. It absolutely hated 30 mph and 4th gear. And I bet it would almost die if in 5th. |
Alii1959
| | Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 10:21 pm: |
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When I said pulled well, I meant that it didn't feel like it was going to die. No, it doesn't have the torque a huge v-twin does...but, that doesn't mean that it can't be done. Further, just because "you hated it" doesn't mean that it didn't work. I realize that my GSXR isn't the bike for everyone and I don't expect it to be, nor am I willing to spend time defending it. You seem to have missed the point. My point was that I don't think that the 1125r is really in competition with the 1098, either on the tract or in the showroom. I hope that it will be soon. I hope that Buell survives the changes that are occurring in the industry. I hope that Buell can compete with the Ducati's of the world and give some of the rest of us a choice if/when we choose to buy a superbike. I really enjoyed the 1125r when I rode it. An amazing bike. But, I am not convinced that the magazines are unbiased in their comparisons (even when they choose my bike) nor do I believe that they are always biased. But, I do believe that there is a great deal of room for Buell to improve on a great platform and create a bike that can compete on all levels. And, I believe that Eric Buell is a great engineer and hopefully Buell will survive long enough for them to create a bike I am willing to buy. |
Koz5150
| | Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 10:51 pm: |
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Why would you try to go 20 mph in 6th gear or even 30 in 4th?
Possible answers
1. You don't know how to downshift
2. You don't know that you should down shift
3. You are too lazy to downshift
4. You want to try and burn up your clutch
5. It is some secret race trick only Buell can use
Thanks to the those who even partially agree with me that the race thing looks funny. I agree that if HD really wanted a 600cc or even better a 1000cc class bike they could make it happen. For that matter if they really wanted to enter Buell in top teir racing they could. They did it in the NHRA with Both Buell and HD models.
Having met Erik Buell a few times I believe that with or without HD's help he would find a way to make Buell live. The man just doesn't know how to quit and I admire that as the son of small business owner.
BTW - Blake you keep saying the the 600s are loss leaders. I cannot find a single reference to your claim. Please back it up with something or revise your statement as an opinion. Thanks |
Alii1959
| | Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 11:17 pm: |
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Nope just forgot to downshift and once I discovered my error I decided that I wanted to see if it would pull itself back up to speed....very simple. When I got off of the Triumph Sprint 955i, I thought that I'd really see a drop off in torque with the 600, but such really isn't the case. Yes, it does have less torque, but overall I don't miss it at all. I do miss the exhaust note of the 955, but otherwise I prefer the 600. It is lighter, quicker, and has been, thus far, extremely reliable. My bike is my primary mode of transport.
I really wish that Buell would make a bike similar to mine. If they did I would probably be on it. Why not something in the 600cc arena? I know that there were a lot of people getting excited about the Buell dirtbike/dual sport that never came to pass. I just think there are a lot of missed opportunities. |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 11:42 pm: |
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"They did it in the NHRA with Both Buell and HD models. "
You need to study more, a LOT more.
Backup...
http://turbo.discovery.com/beyond/?playerId=245988 601&categoryId=1418496841&lineupId=1454928294&titl eId=1454865191
It's in one of the Twist the Throttle shows. Can't recall which. I've seen it written about before as well. Don't recall where. |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 11:45 pm: |
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"When I got off of the Triumph Sprint 955i, I thought that I'd really see a drop off in torque with the 600, but such really isn't the case. Yes, it does have less torque, but overall I don't miss it at all."
Uh, it doesn't have a drop in torque, or you don't care that it does? 
I've ridden a number of 600cc repliracers. They are entirely gutless in the lower half of the rev range. |
4cammer
| | Posted on Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 11:21 am: |
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"I really wish that Buell would make a bike similar to mine."
Then it would not be a Buell, at least to me. If Buell made a I-4 sewing machine like the Japanese four do it would just be another bike in an overpopulated arena. Pass. |
Alii1959
| | Posted on Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 12:52 pm: |
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Didn't mean an Inline-4, just a lower displacement bike. Was hoping that the Blast would have been a great bike straight from the factory. I thought the 500cc single was a great idea. With a lot of work, ala EZ-blast, it can be. But it just wasn't. Too bad. The rest of the line-up is pretty good, but it isn't in the same arena as the Japanese, English, nor Italians at this point. Hopefully it will be soon. |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 02:04 pm: |
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"The rest of the line-up is pretty good, but it isn't in the same arena as the Japanese, English, nor Italians at this point."
I'll add that to the other internet pearls of wisdom revealed here, like:
"I have found (the GSXR600) quite capable of pulling well in 6th from 20MPH."
"When I got off of the Triumph Sprint 955i, I thought that I'd really see a drop off in torque with the 600, but such really isn't the case. Yes, it does have less torque, but overall I don't miss it at all." |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 02:04 pm: |
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even if Buell wanted an I4, where the hell would they get it? |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 04:10 pm: |
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MV Augusta has one. |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Monday, October 12, 2009 - 12:47 pm: |
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If a Buell is going to cost 20k, I'd just buy an MV. Besides, they build about 4-10 bikes a day, maybe, how are they going to supply Buell with a motor?
Unless Buell has a "premium" bike that would use the MV motor? A bike like an MV but without the fancy? |
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