| Author | Message | ||
     Thansesxb9rs |
I think something most of us overlook is how good we do have it money wise. How many other countries have the disposable income that most Americans have. How many people have big screen TV's, nice cars, toys called motorcycles, take yearly vacations, live in expensive housing, buy name brand the list just goes on and on. When we see a disruption in our style of living it really gets us all upset. That is something we are starting to see is that to keep up with our current lifestyle we need more disposable income. The more disposable income we need means the company needs to pay us more. The more the company needs to pay us the higher the cost of their product. If there is a demand for said product at higher price and profits drop the company must find savings to survive the long haul. Company makes a decision to move opperations where pay is lower and quality is slowly increasing. What has been the biggest problem for all of us is our life styles. Maybe the US will become a country of small businesses like it was 40 or 50 years ago and not rely on importing goods. It is kind of like voting for the third party, unless we make the change personally nothing will ever happen. If you want to stop the global economy from taking over then we must support the more expensive small businesses. Look at what walmart did to the Ma and Pa business in our country. So if we quit shopping at all these discount stores and support the small business we won't really have to rely on the big corporations. Our small business can purchase their products from other small businesses and so on. Just think if we where all part of a small business the stock market wouldn't big as big of a concern for any of us, we could leave that to the other countries and just invest in it when we want. So next time you are thinking of buying cheaper tires or parts on ebay think of our small businesses like AL at American Sport Bike and send your money his way or go to your local bike shop that maybe is struggleing to survive and get your tires there. There are plenty of independent small business that can meet all of our needs we just need to support them. I admit I am guilty of this, I use ebay I buy from large distributors that get large discounts for buying in large quantities which in turn allows them to under cut the small businesses in price. Maybe we Americans need to stop looking for the cheapest or best deal and support our own, and when I say our own I mean our small business owners. This of course would mean we stop supporting Walmart, Target, Tractor Supply, Ace Hardware, Bass Pro Shop, Cabelea's (You better go to our man Dave instead of these last two) and so on. These are all American companies that have driven down costs to put quite a few small business out in the cold. Maybe this is how we need to look at the problem of how a global economy could hurt us less and less. This would be very expensive for most of us at first, but if it ever took hold would eventually be a very good investment for all of us. We just need to not be scared and take the leap, sad thing is most Americans will not support this because they just can't handle losing more of their disposable income even though in the long run it would be the best investment they could make. You have to spend more to earn more. Just look back 30 years, there have been so many jobs created by American Debt. Credit card companies employ a very large force of people in this world. We didn't need them 30 years ago, we had our banks. I may not of been around back then but we need to look more to our roots and spend what we have not what we are allowed otherwise we better embrace the global economy and find our niche in it or perish. What has put America in this position isn't our government or corporations, it is good old American GREED. Just think if no one invested in the stock market 30 or 40 years ago, only reason to invest was to make a quick buck anyways not because you really wanted to help out the corporations. So maybe if we weren't greedy didn't all want to be millionaires we would have never gotten our country into the problem we face going forward. Guess we should have looked closer to the downfall of Rome. When any country allows credit to be given for wants and not needs you will slowly see it's demise. | ||
| Kdan |
Hey Blake. You own your own home? You're in the minority. | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
Crusty just food for thought, but you are worth what the company is willing to pay. So as long as you work for big corporations you are worth the same as any other worker in the World. If your skills are more polished or there are not any other countries with workers that have the same or similar skills is when you will make more money in this day in age. That is why we all need to evaluate what direction we want to take in this world and what we are going to do about it. So long as you want to work for a large corporation you will be paid the same across the board as employee's from other countries or they will not offer you a job. Maybe we just need to start a small business marketing campaign. | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
Oh ya one more thing, I estimate that there will be no small towns or small town living in the next 20 years, that is unless we support small business. | ||
| Liquorwhere |
>>>>>>The fact that a greater percentage of Americans than ever before now own their own homes is not something that can be dismissed out of hand I don't think. No it shouldn't, but neither should the lack of savings, loss of purchase power, an inverted yield curve on investment similar to that of most recessions and the depression of the early 1930's, inflation indexes and interest rates tied directly to political jockeying, record number of bankruptcy, record number of repossessions and the complete disintegration of the nuclear family in part the rising costs of living requiring dual incomes..that is not an opinion, it is a fact.. | ||
| Az_m2 |
Crusty . . . You may be in a unique situation (or maybe I am). I haven't seen the kind of increases in living expenses that you have over the last 5 years. Also, I don't understand how your co-worker lost his pension, did the company go under? Kdan . . . Home ownership rates are actually very high (to my surprise). Folks that don't own their own home are the minority. Check out the stats for 2005. http://www.danter.com/STATISTICS/homeown.htm | ||
| Old_man |
I suppose your viewpoint is determined by whose "ox is being gored". If you are doing well, then "all is well" We tend to be selfish and it's easy to disregard the pain of those we don't even know. I'm retired, so whether jobs leave this country, or not, has little to do with me. In fact, it probably serves me well that more people make less money. But I have young grandchildren and it makes me wonder what this trend means to them. | ||
| Buellgirlie |
the world is flat. read it. http://www.thomaslfriedman.com/worldisflat.htm compete or get left behind. no one owes you a thing. D | ||
| Old_man |
"Let them eat cake!" | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
Old Man what this trend more then likely means for your grand children is that they will live in a very different world then you did with very different opportunities. They may not have the career path you took but others will come up. | ||
| Buellshyter |
The fact that a greater percentage of Americans than ever before now own their own homes is not something that can be dismissed out of hand I don't think The reason why you have greater ownership of homes is because of easy credit. It used to be you had to put down 20% in order to get financing. They did away with that and bucked it up to 100% financing which is why they charge mortgage insurance. Also, many women work nowadays and interest rates are historically low. Furthermore, there are many government programs to help people get into homes. I don't understand how your co-worker lost his pension, did the company go under? The companies declare bankruptcy, reorganize and eliminate or reduce pension and health care for retirees. When pensions are eliminated they are deferred to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., a government agency that insures pensions. However, they guarantee only a percentage of the pension, therefore, retirees are left with a reduced pension up to 50% in some cases. My Grandmother, as a young girl was sure that flight was but a pipe dream. Court, that's not the kind of benign change we are talking about. Surely, most of us enjoy the creature comforts that technology has provided. However, not all change is for the better. Developing a cancerous growth or losing your family in an accident is not positive change, at least not to me. This country, in fact, the world is going to see some dramatic change in the near future. We are figuratively walking through a minefield with one wrong miscalculation resulting in catastrophe. Imagine what an army of 100 years ago had at it's disposal - not much. The ability to affect change was limited and required vast resources. Today, we have nuclear weapons with the ability to kill millions and the technology is spreading. Fast forward about 20-50 years. One lone madman, in his basement, will be able to synthesize a virus with the ability to kill everyone exposed to it. This is why Steven Hawking's said we must get off the planet if mankind is to survive. It's not Doomsday paranoia. It is a logical conclusion. | ||
| G234146 |
"Change is fabulous..." That is an accurate statement.  | ||
| Old_man |
"They may not have the career path you took" Unfortunately, My career will always be here. People will continue to kill one another in any economic situation. I never had the concern that I would have no work. I worked 38 years as a police officer, the last 23 years in homicide. | ||
| Kdan |
Kdan . . . Home ownership rates are actually very high (to my surprise). Folks that don't own their own home are the minority. I dunno about you guys, but the bank owns mine. It's not really yours until you hold that deed in your hot little hand. After that all you have to do is keep up with the taxes and worry about that little eminent domain thing. | ||
| Buellshyter |
They may not have the career path you took but others will come up. Neither you nor I can possibly predict what the future holds but to assume it's going to always get better or that all change is for the good is overly optimistic. This country both governmentally and individually is extremely debt ridden with the principle financiers of our debt being Japan and China. Let them shift away from buying dollars to buying Euros, which has already begun in the oil markets and you won't be painting such a rosy picture for your children. The Queen of England said her country was becoming a nation of pimps and whores. I think she meant to say the U.S. is. We are selling off assets quicker then a ho selling her ass for crack. Our short-term thinking will be our demise. From the New York Times : 0 to 60 to World Domination {http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/18/magazine/18Toyot a.t.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&ref=magazine&pagewanted= all&oref=slogin} Read that article and tell me you will say to yourself , " America used to be about that" | ||
| Teddagreek |
My dad used to tell me back in the 50's he could save 6 months and buy a new car outright... The house I Live in 1961 cost the orginal owner just under 15,000 dollars.. On another note I try to buy american or German when it comes to tools.. Dewalt went mexico now is china.. Most Bosch tools are now made in China...  Anyone know where I can get a bench grinder and a big bench vise that are American of European made.. | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
Oh wow, yup you are right I don't see that occupation disappearing anytime soon, just hope it isn't outsourced to China. | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
Buellshyter, saying that they may not have the same career path and that other paths will come up is a pretty general observation of the past few years and the way it looks like things are headed. I didn't say it would be better or worse, because who knows what it does hold but I do know there will be plenty of opportunity just like there is plenty of opportunity right now. Just remember the opportunities aren't always in the things we are comfortable with, but they are there even if it may seem unobtainable there will always be the opportunity to succeed and make a comfortable living. | ||
| Ducxl |
compete or get left behind. no one owes you a thing With my healthcare costs and the cost of keeping food in the fridge i can't compete with the Chinese laborer that is housed AT the factory for their workweek in dormatories.The American laborer who manufactures hard goods is at a disadvantage to developing countries. And it's folly to think ANYONE is going to change the Chinese government.THey're communist and ALWAYS WILL BE. "let them eat cake" ??? The American labor movement will hopefully stand up someday and take the government away from the Corporate America that bought it lock,stock&Barrel. Is Barake Obama that man? | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
I don't think there is a candidate that would do that, political suicide comes to mind. Remember who funds all the campaigns, it isn't us. Plus I don't think he could ever get the house and the senate to stand beside him in the matter. It is one thing to say a bunch of words another to follow them. When we see a politician that doens't twist his/her words and actually does what is said will be a good day. Thing is we won't see that until we don't have a politician in office. | ||
| Buellshyter |
there will always be the opportunity to succeed and make a comfortable living. With all due respect, what planet are you living on? How in the world can you even make such a statement? There is no guarantee, based on past performance, that Americans will be able to sustain their standard of living. In fact, if you listen to some, we are overdue for an economic implosion the likes of which will make the Depression look like a jobs program. Yes, the Depression, remember that from your History class? I do believe there was a significant percentage of the population NOT making any wage at all, let alone a "comfortable living". History is a veritable junkyard of failed civilizations. I don't know about some but I would like to get through my life with the least amount of pain and suffering and the best way to do so is to work together. I see an undercurrent of individualism and libertarianism on this board that borders on fanaticism. It's great to have one's own identity but we need to pull together as a people if we hope to solve our collective problems. Just like it was short-sighted for the French aristocracy to "let them eat cake" so to is it narrow minded to think that just because " I got mine" that will somehow shield you from the rest of society. Your cocoon won't save you - sooner or later the ills of society will reach you. Take a trip to Mexico. The rich live behind walled compounds and have armed bodyguards that take them everywhere they go. Kidnapping is the number one business in Mexico. I don't want to live under those conditions and neither should you. | ||
| Blake |
Crusty, Have you ever really looked into the financial status of the "Average American" in the time period you mention, 1950's? Can you compare what "living comfortably" entailed then versus now? I'd say that back then it was... 1. A single car for the whole family. 2. A single telephone for the whole family. 3. A single television for the whole family. 4. No microwave. 5. No imported beer at the corner store. 6. No cell phones. 7. No cable TV. 8. No computers or internet. 9. In the medical field, the X-Ray was the cutting edge technology, there were no cat scans, no MRI's, no heart surgery, no cosmetic surgery, no echograms, no stress tests, no knee replacements, no hip replacements, no chemo, no radiation treatment, heck no vaccine for polio! Can we compare the state of pharmaceuticals? No viagra or cialis! No rogaine! No prozac, zoloft, wellbutrin. The horror! There must have been a bunch of bald-headed limp dicks moping around all depressed.  Seriously though. Every single wondrous advancement in the field of medicine adds to the cost of our medical insurance. Back in the 1940's and 1950's, you didn't pay near as much for medical coverage or medical treatment; you just died. Compare average life spans and child mortality between then and now? 10.How many commercial jet flights did the average family take in 1950? I'm sure there are more examples like this. My point is that the expected standard of living today is significantly different from what it was in the 1940's and 1950's, yes? Compare the average automobile now to back then? Household energy consumption? Do you remember what constituted the local grocery store back then? It would take four of them to fill the average grocery store today. What portion of son's and daughters were going to college in 1950 compared to today? The average home of the 1940's and 1950's pails in comparison to what folks strive for today, no? Don't you imagine that if folks today were willing to settle for a 1950's standard of living, medicine, etc., a single income would do just fine. Yes? Kdan, A mortage holder does not own the home. The owner does. The bank merely holds a promisory note with the home offered as collateral in case of loan default. It's no different than when you arrange for a vehicle loan. The vehicle is registered to you, not the bank. The bank only has right of ownership if you default on your obligation to pay off the loan. | ||
| Blake |
"Take a trip to Mexico. The rich live behind walled compounds and have armed bodyguards that take them everywhere they go. Kidnapping is the number one business in Mexico. I don't want to live under those conditions and neither should you." Whoa! That's a bit of a leap. From world superpower and economic powerhouse to the slums of Mexico? Dude. | ||
| Rainman |
Welcom to Wal-Mart. Would you like fries with your order? | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
Buellshyter, You need to come out of your cocoon, I have sales reps all over the world that I deal with and wouldn't think twice or fear going anywhere in the world to work beside if they needed it, except for some middle eastern countries. But there are a quite a few places in the Middle East I would goto right now for business or vacation. It is funny how the Media has made most Americans feel like the world is so dangerous for us. The world is one big city and if you go looking for trouble you will find it. Since my sister in law is from Mexico and I have family in Europe, Spain, Canada and Australia I do not fear the changes I am seeing, I kind of like the idea of a global economy where you have an opportunity to go anywhere in the world to work. By the way have you ever even been to Mexico or any other country? Kidnapping give me a break, yes it will happen in areas but you are just as likely to be kidnapped and killed when you drive downtown in any major city, there is a possiblilty but 99.9% of the time nothing will happen. So yes I do beleive there will always be opportunity in this world, it may not be in your home town but it will always be out there for you to grasp as long as you don't hold yourself back. I could go anywhere in the world right now and make a comfortable living. But then again maybe I just have good contacts and do not fear doing what I have to to be successful, even if that means having to go to another country, which I have been asked a few times to do and may do sometime because it would be a great experiance. I guess I look at the opportunities that have come my way that I have taken and the ones I have passed up, I don't ever see a world where I don't have a choice, unless communism takes over, maybe it is easier for me since I am not married, maybe I am still In my crazy youth and thinking about living abroad doesn't scare me, I don't know I just know there are always opportunities in this world. The world is a very different place then it was during the great deppression. People stayed in their home towns their entire life, didn't travel far from their home towns for vacation and probably only knew a few people that lived outside of it. Today there is much more opportunity to succeed then there ever was you just have to work for it because there are no handouts in this world. I guess my father has always been my inspiration, since he grew up with 10 siblings poor as dirt and became very successful. He always told me there is nothing to hold me back but myself, the road will not always be easy but work hard and make your own opportunities because you are owed nothing. | ||
| Jimidan |
You need to come out of your cocoon, I have sales reps all over the world that I deal with and wouldn't think twice or fear going anywhere in the world to work beside if they needed it, except for some middle eastern countries. But there are a quite a few places in the Middle East I would goto right now for business or vacation. It is funny how the Media has made most Americans feel like the world is so dangerous for us. The world is one big city and if you go looking for trouble you will find it. It isn't just the media that makes us feel that way, they are just reporting the news. Our own government is helping fuel the hysteria too. It is beneficial to have your population in fear, and the guys we have now play it (and the media) like a drum. However, before 24 hour news cycles took over, we didn't hear about many of the incidents that are now played over and over. This gives many the feeling that things are worse than they are, simply because they do not look at the big picture. They can's see the forest for the trees. If folks understood chance and probability they would see how safe they really are from outside forces. Folks have a much better chance of having an automobile or home accident that kills or injures them than some act committed against them. It is all relative. jimidan} | ||
| Cruisin |
Well after reading this, I feel a bit better about the company I work for. The head office is in West Virginia...it's a US company through and through. We just bought a controlling share (71.5%) of a company in India (buying it outright is difficult to do in India). They had subsidiaries in Europe and elsewhere. Even with this transaction, our third quarter results were a net profit of $135 million. We make generic drugs so that people can have cheaper healthcare. Buying this company gave us a serious global distribution platform to work with, enabling us to do more worldwide and bring that money home to the US. I know it's no the norm, but it's good to know it's happening. | ||
| Frankfast |
It's no use comparing the standard of living between now and anytime in the past. There were times when disposable income may have been better than today but todays "needs"(keeping up with the Jonses) are far greater. Every improvement in todays standard of living comes with a price tag that doesn't just include money. Sure, the technology in healthcare is better but there are more threats to our health today than ever. Our lifespan is longer but that doesn't mean the quality of life is better. Faster cars, bigger houses are not improvements as much as they are a statement about todays way of life. Bigger and faster means more pressure to get things done. Gone is the simple life if ever there was one. Watching jobs slip overseas is inevitable and is costing the middleclass. The gap between the rich and the poor is growing and well documented. I'd like to see a more effective inheritance tax in order to level the playing field a bit more. | ||
| Ryker77 |
Can you compare what "living comfortably" entailed then versus now? I'd say that back then it was... 1. A single car for the whole family. 2. A single telephone for the whole family. 3. A single television for the whole family. 4. No microwave. 5. No imported beer at the corner store. 6. No cell phones. 7. No cable TV. 8. No computers or internet. 9. In the medical field, the X-Ray was the cutting edge technology, there were no cat scans, no MRI's, no heart surgery, no cosmetic surgery, no echograms, no stress tests, no knee replacements, no hip replacements, no chemo, no radiation treatment, heck no vaccine for polio! Can we compare the state of pharmaceuticals? No viagra or cialis! No rogaine! No prozac, zoloft, wellbutrin. The horror! There must have been a bunch of bald-headed limp dicks moping around all depressed. Seriously though. Every single wondrous advancement in the field of medicine adds to the cost of our medical insurance. Back in the 1940's and 1950's, you didn't pay near as much for medical coverage or medical treatment; you just died. Compare average life spans and child mortality between then and now? 10.How many commercial jet flights did the average family take in 1950? I'm sure there are more examples like this. My point is that the expected standard of living today is significantly different from what it was in the 1940's and 1950's, yes? Compare the average automobile now to back then? Household energy consumption? Do you remember what constituted the local grocery store back then? It would take four of them to fill the average grocery store today. What portion of son's and daughters were going to college in 1950 compared to today? The average home of the 1940's and 1950's pails in comparison to what folks strive for today, no? Don't you imagine that if folks today were willing to settle for a 1950's standard of living, medicine, etc., a single income would do just fine. Yes? 1- A single car was all that was needed. Kids would walk or ride bikes. Husband and Wife stayed at home in the evenings. TODAY- FAT lazy kids get run around by there parents in $$$$ gas guzzlers 2- a single land phone line. Sometimes people don;t need to gossip and spread lies. Try reading a book or planting some vegatables. Less stressfull ..... I could go on and on. There is no need to stay or live in the past. BUT WE MUST NOT FORGET what living really is. Having a 52" widescreen plasma HDTV does not make or improve my life over a 36" fat TV! Today we have become a nation without morals or identy. A huge % of Americans needs pills just to live (prescribed or not). We've become so lazy that we are in fact the true terrorist to ourselves. Number one cause is what? Number 2 cause of death is what? Whats the number one cause of death for young adults--- see statement number 1 for a clue | ||
| Ducxl |
Having a 52" widescreen plasma HDTV does not make or improve my life over a 36" fat TV! How disposable,look at everyone ditching perfectly good functioning TVs for the latest,super thin TVs.It's like Mikhail Gorbachev called us "Super consumers" gobbling up everything in sight. What i can't get past is the inequity between mine and the average Chinese citizen.We're not on a level playing field.And so far i haven't seen any of the "super Economics 101 gurus" explain why. And i detest Walmart,utterly.I watched an expose' on how they demand unreasonable price cuts' from their suppliers.And it put "Pillowtex" right out of business with it's practices.My Country is going down without a stopgap to prevent American companies from bankruptcy...I'm not owed anything but a government that cares about ity's citizens....TRAITORS! |
