| Author | Message | ||
     Rick_a |
Yeah, I don't think growth and expansion is any sign of losing focus...quite the opposite, IMO. They have been gravitating towards dual use bikes and the announcement of dirt bike models doesn't surprise or shock me at all. I'm actually quite excited about it. I love the XB's...even the TT. If I could afford another twin I'd buy one. The TT had a cold reception here, but, as usual, got a lot of attention overseas. Personally, I could see my first new bike purchase being a Buell dual sport/dirtbike/supermoto. Why not? | ||
| Naustin |
Eengler 2- great point. You and Elvis are optimists. I'm am afflicted with pessimism and skepticism.  (Message edited by naustin on February 03, 2007) | ||
| Rick_a |
Additionally, a Buell Superbike or Supersport would be great. While I wouldn't buy one, I know it'd be a great market segment to finally jump into. | ||
| S1eric |
Kdan "Apparently there are dirt people who want to help buell pay the rent." Hmmmm maybe. I haven`t been hearing that where I ride. Maybe HD Buell had a focus group. I`m sure they are reading this right now. Maybe the market is there. But its a different market than what they are use to. I would be skeptical about buying one. at least for a few years. Until I see the product prove it`s self. And how well the dealer network will support it and me. THE CONSUMER. This isn`t the poser market. " Who wants to be a good looking rider that gets beat all the time " We use to say that about a certain Cannondale rider. And that was a decent product, But it was in a tough market. The rest of us dirt bikers didn`t buy into it. S1Eric | ||
| Eengler2 |
Naustin--Optimist...maybe. I really just LOVE Buells. I have been lusting over them since highschool when I saw an S1. Now, I finally have an M2 and absolutely love it. There are only two bikes on my short list of bikes to add to the garage--used Ducati 748 or 916 (Just to stare at it. Haven't talked my wife into letting me keep one in the living room, yet), and a Buell XB (or whatever comes next XC). Erik is right, there is not a better bike for the street (maybe he can add dirt to that statement). I don't know of many other bikes (any naked bikes) that are so compelling to ride that you suit up and risk frostbite just to get another ride in. (M2 started right up yesterday, 13 degrees!) I look forward to what BMC comes up with next. | ||
| Court |
>>>>Has Buell lost focus? It's a perfectly legitimate question asked in a civilized manner, it warrants a similar answer. That answer is. . . NO. The internet is a springboard where folks armed with but a drink and a sliver of information leap to definitive conclusions about long term strategies. Buell has never been stronger. They are not where they want to be. The get where they want requires strategy and planning. They complete in a terribly competitive arena with some of the best armed, intellectually and financially, competition in the world. This is an industry in which a guy like John Britten couldn't marshal his 11th bike and well funded folks like Fischer and Michael Czysz disappear before they're a push-pin on the motorcycle wall map. Even folks who've raised $100,000,000 and had a brand spankin' new factories get spit out by the machine that is the motorcycle business. It's a business that demands you gamble all you have and you don't know if you've won or lost for 3 years. Buell has a partner, in Harley-Davidson, many of whose strengths are more of a noose in Buell's market. They have marketing people who do not understand why a leather Buell halter top wouldn't work. Buell has not lost focus. They know who they are, what they can do and how they need to do it. They are also smart enough to know it's a long game and if you ain't in it you can't win. Your answer is "NO". That's my opinion. Others will have, and are welcome, their own based on their perceptions and available information. Court P.S. I see sitting on the world's largest stock of BUELL RACING shirts as an "Investment" not a liability.  | ||
| M2nc |
I think two things are in play here. One - The Uly was a small step away from traditional Buells and the response was fantastic for a small company like Buell. It was their coming out bike and if they did not sell one to every rider, it was not because every rider didn't look at it. The Uly was a huge step for Buell that paid off much better than the XBRR. If I was in Business, the customer is telling me they want more road worthy & off road worth motorcycles. Two - Harley has to be looking at the Victory / KTM merger with some real concerns. Here is a company that is trying to take a chunk out of Harley's main business and they can do so much more if this merger goes through. Polaris will be a player to be reckon with and Harley, Honda, Suzuki and Kawazaki are all looking with great interest. If Buell is turned into more a KTM competitor, then Harley can match Polaris step for step. My 2 cents. (Message edited by M2nc on February 04, 2007) | ||
| Glitch |
One thing the BadWeB community needs to keep in mind is that as a focus group, we have a pretty narrow view. As hard as it is to come to this realization, just think about how many Buell motorcycles there are in the world, vs how many active users there are here. There were about 1908 users during last month out of 10783 users in total. With a total of 54,400 Buell motorcycles delivered since 2002, it kind of puts things into perspective, for me anyway. While I know BMC, Erik, Flick and others are well aware of BadWeB, if they only listened to us, then one could say, BMC has lost focus. They are not where they want to be. Where would they like to be, I guess is the question. I've looked for a "Mission Statement" and couldn't find one. Not that I give a lot of weight to "Mission Statements" as they seem to be most times fluff, it'd still be kind of nice to know, where they are heading, or at least what their goal is. Even if their goal is to rule the world of motorbikes, or simply be competitive in the world of motorbikes. Do I think BMC owes that to me, no, I'd just like to know, I'm curious. | ||
| Glitch |
Well said Carlos, I tend to agree. The Uly was a hugh step for Buell I'm sure Hugh will be flattered you think so  | ||
| Loki |
Look at this in another facet. I see it as a positive step into the future. It can be the first true step into the creation of stand alone franchises. The dirty bikes will bring more foot traffic thru the door. | ||
| Lake_bueller |
I actually think it might be genius to develop the dirt bike market. How many people are brand loyal for life? If you start them early, you get them forever. The dirt bike market is generally a younger audience and more family friendly. Seems like a smart move for the future of Buell and HD. | ||
| Honu |
My seat of the pants Market Research shows Areas for riding a pure dirt bike are declining rapidly. All my dirt bike friends are moving into the dual sport realm to open up their riding options.  | ||
| Ezblast |
Court - I disagree - with the loss of the 9's and the Blast - Erik will find a large segment of his buying base gone - the 9's kept selling and well after the intro of the 12 because they where the more reasonable bike for everyday riding and their insurance reflected it. The Blast also helped that market. Now Buell is loosing that large segment and expanding in different directions all together - I morn the loss of a Buell for everyday riding - the incity cut and thrust and weekend cornercarving - Buell is leaving nothing to keep that market - tell me there will always be a 9 or Blast type bike and I'll concede I'm wrong, otherwise I think there is a serious loss of focus there - and a loss of a good piece of sales as well. Dirt bikes - maybe a supermoto for the street - dirt itself is for kids and racers - pass and a large group of riders feel this same way. Hypersports - please - if you bought a Buell in the past you where not looking for a hypersport. The 12's already have the insurance of a hypersport so perhaps there is a justification, however, it was never a reason, more a reason not to buy a 12 - lol GT - JBOTDS! EZ  (Message edited by ezblast on February 03, 2007) | ||
| Hughlysses |
The Uly was a hugh step for Buell I'm sure Hugh will be flattered you think so Why thank you. I do what I can...  | ||
| Bads1 |
My thoughts are alot like Rocketsprinks. Dirt??? Finding a place to ride the dirt is getting harder and harder every day. Heck I know someone hear but not 20 miles right from the Buell factory that bought himself like 5 acres or so,so he could ride. You know what??? Its over,he can't because he's disturbing the piece. Neighbors complaining. Jeremy Mcgrath is going through the very same thing in California and he own's a ton of property. I have no interest in a dirt bike because of lack of use and years ago I raced. Now nowhere to ride. I fear I own my last Buell. I'll keep it and Buy whatever grab's me by the nuts the most. KTM,Monster, maybe MV. I love what I have now and have been a owner of a Buell now for 7 years. I just want to see more of a good thing..... Awesome street bikes. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Lucky enough to be out west, where there are still tons of forest service roads, unpaved national park roads, and mountain dirt twisties. I ride on the dirt every chance I get. It does make me feel like a kid again when I bombed down the backroads on the XR75 I am sure the engineers never intended me to run the CityX the way I do. But NO complaints or mechanical issues so far. Get on with the Bendy and Dirty. (though it would be nice to have more ground clearance) | ||
| Crusty |
You know, nowhere have I seen that Buell is dropping their street bikes in favor of building dirt bikes. I heard a very thinly veiled hint of something coming that piqued my interest (and really got my wife's attention) from "someone who would know". It definitely isn't a dirt bike. If Buell wants to expand its market by building dirt bikes, I have no problem with that. If they build an engine that's competitive with current off road bikes, then that technology could possibly translate into a high horsepower engine for the street. Then the people who want a Duck hunter will have the weapon they've been asking for. I think that some of the conclusions people have been jumping to are in the Olympic Gold Medal category. | ||
| Stealthxb |
Focus and inability to are two of my favorite subjects. they've lost sight of what customers want yet are selling more bike than they ever have I too am extremely disappointed in the in demise of the XBRR. I see way too many parallels to the old Harley race bike that was abandoned rather than groomed into greatness. Racing on the weekends is the best possible way to making improvements. The weakest link can be difficult to identify in a test facility. This issue bothers me. I would love to see a Buell running an extra lap carrying the US flag on Sunday, but let us face it... most Superbike dreams are for wannabes. Dirt bike dreams are for me. A dirt bike is something that will improve the life of my family and me directly by adding something we can use together. I am about versatility. My XB12S is too. I can ride to work, to bike night, rip the twisties or tape up the lights and take it to the track. Motard is also about versatility and will compliment my lifestyle much better than a dedicated track bike ever would. The roots of motorcycles grow in the dirt. For Buell an entry level model opens up the possibility of lifelong brand loyalty. And in case you all fail to remember... the Harley dealer experience has historically been our (Buell enthusiasts) biggest complaint. Dirt bike sales pave the way for stand-alone facilities! The irony of this whining is that it sounds like the Hog parade bitching about having rice burner style bikes sold in their giant merchandise distribution centers. Since when is bringing a wider range of customers into the dealerships bad? they built a race bike, but left it up to privateers to do the racing and support I believe this is another example of one of the most progressive business model currently in practice. One might call it the YouTube model. The purpose is to deliver the platform and let the users provide the content. It allows business to focus on core issues while the customers sort out the details. But in order for this to work you have to continually enhance the product; not have a change of heart as evidenced with the XBRR. Buell is listening. They are doing this for us. But dis ain’t bout dem bikes, dis bout bizness. You may convince yourself this is not what you want... But it is actually what you need. I am not sure why I want the world to know our secret. quite the quandary | ||
| Etennuly |
Maybe it's simpler than all that. First, experimentally Buell motorcycles brought faster bike riders to HD with the M1-M2. Then the XB platform brought the real crotch rocket and race riders to HD. Next the Uly brings a mass of cross over riders that do everything to HD. Now for the dirt bike riders to HD. Oh man, I see a pattern. Someone wants to stomp Honda (the World leader for years), and others, for the World wide domination of the mass motorcycle market. To do that you have to be able to cover the entire motorcycle spectrum. HD mission statement.....from a sales standpoint the time is ripe to kick the Worlds motorcyclists in the ass, put as many of them on HD products as possible and count the profits from World domination. I believe the wind of Buell is filling the sails of HD that will make it happen. How many times has HD tried with the "pure" brand to reach out toward this lofty goal to be stereo-typed back into their niche of road hogs and sporties. Just the opinion of a single one of the 8% of the 3%. | ||
| Glitch |
I too am extremely disappointed in the in demise of the XBRR. The XBRR ain't dead. You may convince yourself this is not what you want... But it is actually what you need. This is so true, on so many different levels. I say this to MrsG just before I tan her hide. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Well, if they come out with an overworked, under powered copy of the XB for the 25th. I will be disappointed. A dirt bike won't convince me to come back either. I just hope it works out for them. | ||
| Buellshyter |
I too am extremely disappointed in the in demise of the XBRR I'm not sure I understand that statement. Did Buell not build the fifty or so bikes it said it would? I look at the RR like I see Mr. Buell and his music. He doesn't play music for profit and I doubt the RR project was for profit either. Seems to me like a bunch of good ole boys wanted to go racing and tried to make due with what they had available without spending an exorbitant amount of financial resources on the project. They gambled that what they could put together with what they had could compete in the big leagues and unfortunately it didn't pan out. The bike is still a solid performer for the privateer so all is not lost. Who knows, perhaps someone worked out the bugs over the off season and the RR will succeed this year at Daytona and beyond. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
What ,to you, is a solid performer for privateers and what would you consider to be a success at Daytona this year? Not trying to be a wise @ss. | ||
| Stealthxb |
He doesn't play music for profit and I doubt the RR project was for profit either. Although there will soon be a guitar with his name on it Erik works for a motorcycle company. Seems to me like a bunch of good ole boys wanted to go racing and tried to make due with what they had available without spending an exorbitant amount of financial resources on the project. That is a valid point-of-view. And if it was their motivation, I applaud the effort. However, our (Buell enthusiasts) expectations were set on an entirely different level. This difference results in dissatisfied customers. The XBRR will never be a contender in top tier racing without full factory support. But I digress. Sure it would be awesome to see a Buell rider on the podium at the Daytona 200... but I think it will be more fun hitting the fireroads and dirt tracks on Erik's vision of an off-road weapon. | ||
| Kdan |
I'll never own a Daytona repli-racer. I'm not that kind of poser. | ||
| Rocketman |
This is about fashion. Just a handful of years ago only a small minority of bikers who enjoy Super Moto would have considered riding a Super Moto style bike on the street. Recent times have seen Super Moto style bikes the height of fashion. I bet the future Buell dirt bike has optional wheel sizes. Rocket | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
Dirt bikes make the most sense in the world for recruiting new riders and starting brand loyalty. My son will soon be the age to go dirt biking. If buell makes an appropriate bike say 50cc or so I will buy it instead of a honda for him. I still have very fond memorys of my honda s90 and ct70. I have owned a number of hondas probably because of my dirt bike experience. Plus how many dealers will carry buell dirt bikes. I bet it will help get more dealers to carry them. I hope they are not high end bikes but more durable and something my 6 year old can pound around on. Hey how about something for dad in say 250cc ( I am probably too fat for a 125). I am long past my hot dog years. Just need something to chase him around the wayne national forest on. | ||
| Blake |
Rocco, In my view some of your premises are off base, the "walking away from the XBRR" one for instance. Buell is continuing to support the XBRR. They are not fielding a factory team in FX; they didn't do so last year. But they are very much supporting the XBRR. You seem to suggest that Buell is announcing the debut of a new dirt bike. I recall Dave stating that in the meeting they advised that in a year or two they would be fielding a dirt bike. I'm guessing, but I have a feeling that come July, we'll have something very positive to discuss. | ||
| Crusty |
Sure it would be awesome to see a Buell rider on the podium at the Daytona 200... but I think it will be more fun hitting the fireroads and dirt tracks on Erik's vision of an off-road weapon. Personally, I'd dearly LOVE to see a Buell on the podium at the Springfield Mile. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Well. only a few short months to wait. Again, no hopes of failure from me. I will continue to support Buell.Hell, I'm still looking for a XB to Race. |
