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Snail
| | Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 05:19 pm: | 
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SleazyLast, you need to get that narcolepsy fixed. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 06:12 pm: |
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Excuse me, where did you sat the bodywork came from on Aaron's bike? Looks awfully like something I've seen before. |
Snail
| | Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 07:45 pm: |
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Who's asking? |
Ezblast
| | Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 09:18 pm: |
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Snail - surely you are not truly ignorant of where that body work originates? - lol - ask your SACBORG buddies and be amazed - lol
GT - JBOTDS! EZ |
Snail
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 12:16 am: |
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Perhaps I am ignorant. Can't deny that possibility.
Next time I talk to Aaron or JB I'll find out exactly. |
Snail
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 10:41 am: |
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Here's Aarons response to my email. Its how I remembered it, and I stand by my statement.
"In any event, the bodywork came from a couple places. Some of the pieces I got from Don McCaw, others came from Erik's barn. This was for the RR1000 effort back in '01.
The pieces from Erik's barn were really rough and needed lots of repairs. I fitted the body to RR and then shipped the whole kit & kaboodle off the Bantz. He made the repairs and put a beautiful paint job on it.
After the '01 season, Team Elves proceeded to sell off everything we had purchased for the effort. I bought the bodywork from the team for $2K.
For '02, I built a new bike and used that body. I used an S2 chassis that I bought from Bantz. That's the bike I'm still racing.
For '03, Bantz stretched the body for me to match the extended swingarm on the S2. Really cleaned it up a lot.
So bottom line, it's an RR1000 body pieced together from a couple sources, prepped by Jim Bantz, and then later it was fairly heavily modified by him as well.
Jim has some pics of the later modifications in progress on his website:"
http://www.bikenutz.com/landspeedracing/buellrrs2/ index.htm |
Jb2
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 12:48 pm: |
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It's hard to read back and find the root of the RR bodywork and how it pertains to a Buell hyper-sport but here are some missing facts when discussing Aaron's most unique and one-off set of skins. The tank is stock RR. Right down to the paint. I only repaired the left Buell decal and repainted the orange section for color match.
The fender pieces are Don McCaw items if I remember correctly. Even at that they are modified variations of the stock pieces. Don has worked in his spare time to really smooth out the stock RR bodywork even more than it already was.
The belly pans were stock but rough items when I first got them. They are basically still stock with the exception that Aaron added a 3" wide strip of aluminum to widen them at the bottom. I repaired the rear edge of the left pan to accept the left rear side panel.
The rear side panels only have a resemblance to stock. Both have been lengthened extensively and the shape pulled inward at the rearward edge. Having said that, I stayed true to the look of the original lines.
The fairing and the tail section are probably the two most unique pieces on the bike. They are both handmade and built for racing(notice lack of headlamp opening). I believe they were originally made by BMC for the racing effort but I'm going on vague memory here. The fairing is as built. The tail section has been heavily modified on several occasions. I did not replicate the stock RR lines at the rear edge because the tail lamp shape was too wide in an area where we were trying to close the air back together without creating turbulence. Interesting side note to the tail section; when I feathered the paint back for lengthening the ghost-shadow of "Bartell's HD" from the original paint job was still legible.
For those who don't know, the bodywork looks pretty much like stock. That was intended. To those of you who are more familiar take a close look at a stock RR and Aaron's bike and you'll notice a thousand subtle and not so subtle changes.
Bottom line is many, many people touched the shape of Aaron's bike and they all stayed true to the original lines.
I'll be a lot more vested in the shape of Snail's bike since we basically threw everything out the window and started over. It will have a Don McCaw front fender fitted to the Suzuki. A little Buell in it's bloodline can't be all bad.  |
Ezblast
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 01:28 pm: |
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AKA - Buell's design modified - lol - still even though LSR's are cool - you by your rudeness show you are not - making a slow bike fast is one thing - hotrodding a hotrod is just redundant and really doesn't impress as much as that Buell does. Snail - you should stick to SNACBORG - with no nutritional value - or any other for that matter -
GT - JBOTDS! EZ |
Not_purple_s2
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 01:53 pm: |
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Would a short stroke, high-compression 1200cc XB with full fairings and a 6spd be a hypersport for buell?
At the very least it would be an interesting step up for the XB12R platform. |
Jb2
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 01:59 pm: |
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Hot-rodding a hotrod is the essence of hot-rodding. They are, by nature, a work in progress. Here I thought I was supporting Snail's statement by showing how this stuff evolves. I sure didn't mean to give EZ a can of gas to throw on the fire. The stock RR body might have been where it all started but to say it's still the same as stock is not true. And to say that the stock body couldn't be improved upon is also untrue. You guys take this shite too seriously. 
Paul, now you know why I mostly stay away from the boards. |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 02:32 pm: |
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>>>Paul, now you know why I mostly stay away from the boards.
Sure makes the good ol' days look good eh?
Great explanation. There is some REAL history in that bodywork, in it's development and use.
Of note is the fact that on a budget of less than dinner for 6 in Manhattan costs (yes, I know I have to buy on your upcoming trip) the bodywork as the MOST AERODYNAMIC (read it again. . . it's not "good", "really neat" or anything....it's THE BEST) EVER PUT ON A MOTORCYCLE. In fact, if I recall it was about 0.03cd points less than the best car at the time.
That bodywork is timeless and showed a group of folks, willing to listen and learn, some of the differences between things that go faster than sound and things that go slower than sound and how their optimum shapes differ. . . it always leads to the raindrop story.
Good to see your silly little initials, looking forward to seeing you in New York at the upcoming Buell Summit and I hasten to point out that EVERYTHING you create is better looking than you!
Now....back to the barn! |
Jb2
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 02:39 pm: |
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Yessir! |
Woody1911a1
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 03:06 pm: |
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hey Jb2 , great read . :-) |
Ezblast
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 03:33 pm: |
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LOL - my point still stands - taking a stocker that only stands with 120 top and making it go 200 plus mph must be far more of a challenge than a bike already 3/4's the way there in stock form - lol - by others testimonies and your own - sounds like definite hard work was still involved, and I would not take that from you, still when I look at the comparo I can only think - that the Suzuki is aimed for that target in the first place while even stock while the Buell originally was not - aka the difference between a Model A doing 200 and a Ferrari doing 200. Thus the yawn - not a shot at your work just that to the casual observer it should be able to do it anyway, while the Buell shouldn't - the very reason I like Buells in the first place - they surprise people - a Busa, or Gixer, etc. - people look at them and think thats fast!
GT - JBOTDS! EZ |
Jb2
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 06:12 pm: |
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Thanks Greg.
Here's a curve ball EZ. The stock Buell RR bodywork was closer to perfect for running at speeds over 200 mph than the Gixer ever was. I still think most folks would look at a stock RR and think that it has to be fast. Things change quickly when maintaining speeds for a long distance over 200 mph. The forces applied to a vehicle running that fast start to multiply exponentially. Paul's bike was lacking in the aerodynamic department from stock-out-of-the-box. The raking and lowering of his frame really scrapped anything from the stock parts other than the tank and fairing. It's been a major project to accommodate the huge turbo and all the parameters that changing the bike's geometry have thrown into the mix. Paul rode the bike to a record without skins. He will tell you it was the ride of his life. It took several runs just get the bike sorted out. Our hope is the skins will add at least 20 mph to his effort. I am using the lessons learned working on Aaron's bike to make what seems to some a hot-rod-in-a-box a whole lot faster. Hot-rodding a hotrod, even really fast ones, is the best mental stimulation I can think of in the dead of winter. Make a fast hotrod go faster? Hell yeah! It's all good.
Back to the barn. You guys have fun. |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 06:18 pm: |
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Jim B. II,
You sure do nice work. The bike looked/looks like it is setting world records just sitting still.
EZ,
The Gixer 1K bodyword is not at all optimal for LSR efforts I don't think. Are you thinking that Paul ran a Busa? He ran his Gix 1K, not a Busa at Bonneville.
More smilies are good. I don't think anyone here is meaning to be contrary to the point of consternation. |
Snail
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 06:39 pm: |
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Sometimes my sparkling personality grates on people, but I try to be truthfull and sincere.
When I mentioned JB did Aarons bodywork I wasn't trying to slight Buell in any way, I was just happy as hell to announce that JB was part of the team, (and for that I'm greatful).
Of course, 'did' can be an ambigous term, and possibly misinterpreted as in this case, apparently.
For instance, if I said: "I did Mary Jane Hedgepeth last night". You wouldn't mistake that for an engineering or design action regarding her twat would you?
Well, nonetheless, I get the stong sensation that ol Snail has overstayed his welcome and I'll just be popping on out of here for a while.
Stay safe. |
Jon
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 07:06 pm: |
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It's cruel to be offended. Having said that, I am very offended that you would....well, y'know...think I was offended. |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 07:18 pm: |
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Snail . . .those moments in time when you DO lead us are filled with VISION and wonderment . . . is Mary Jane hot or what?
Back to your barn . . .er, you do have a barn, right?
If not, I may assign you to one. |
Firemanjim
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 08:56 pm: |
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I certainly read no rancor in Paul's posts,cannot say I appreciated the tone of the responses from EZ ,though.
EZ,skip the sarcasm and silly "yawns".If you disagree with a statement,simply say so. Paul has been apart of this board and the Buell community ALOT longer than you have, so a little common courtesy and respect is called for.And you have NO idea of the amount of labor and enginuity Paul has poured into his bike.To belittle that because it's not a Buell is narrow-minded.
Let Paul be at this for as long as Aaron has and his speeds will amaze you.
JB2, good to see ya here, are ya making room in your shop for the next project??? |
Davegess
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 09:06 pm: |
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EZ may think Snail's Bonneville run was a yawn but I suspect he would not be yawning if had gone that fast. Perhpas he just finds LSR boring? If so his loss. Snail's run is the stuff of legend. Glad to see him hangin' around here. |
Ezblast
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 10:21 pm: |
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You don't get it, however, when I look at the group replying - no wonder - this dissuades nothing - LSR is entertaining when it is a slow item made to go faster, but making a Ferrari or TOL Suzuki go faster is not the same in mine or others books - I asked around a bit before coming back to this - although an impressive endeavor to other LSR folk and followers it still does not impress folk the same as the Buell doing it. Although I'll be the first to cheer on LSR endeavors, I would also be the first to shrug and say they have little to do with the street as does a lot of the top end racing - doesn't make me a non-fan - just a fact. The rest is what others have made of it and concerns me not one inch. I stand by what I have said - this thread is about a future Buell Hyper-sport bike, not LSRs - though an interesting topic on its own it leads no one closer to actually reflecting on what a said hypersport would be capable of, what qualities it should have, traditions, will it still be a streetfighter, etc. - change of topic - lol - that is the topic - LSR's are a nice off-road hobby - like dirtbikes - there is even a forum for them in the racing section -
GT - JBOTDS! EZ |
Jon
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 11:38 pm: |
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Love is a many spleandored thing. So are new socks. Let us all resolve, brethren to recieve one another like a new pair of socks, fresh from the dryer. All fuzzy and warm.
Goooooooood Niiiiiggghht. |
Firemanjim
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 12:13 am: |
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A much better response this time, well written and none of the sarcasm or childish "yawns".
You certainly don't have to have any interest in LSR,but when you are talking Hypersports it will inevitably lead to top speed capability,hence our interest.
I certainly would love to run a Buell Hypersport at Bonneville--an XB-RR for that matter.
And I don't know who you asked around but everyone I am friends with would certainly be impressed with the speeds and accomplishments of Paul. He took a bike capable of maybe 180mph on the salt and added nearly 40 mph to it.The power necessary to make those increases does not go up in equal proportion(I forget the formula,but it is an increasingly difficult task)more so by the huge aerodynamic drag increases at those speeds. |
Ezblast
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 12:51 am: |
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On that I agree - a Buell Hypersport in your hands would be an awesome thing, and logically I know your right about the increased effort proportions, however, 40 just doesn't impress like a 100+ in a lot of folks mind - and I never took away from his effort - work is work and there are few enough names in the book to prove it - still it is not a stretch in many folks mind to picture a Suzi accomplishing that - lol
GT - JBOTDS! EZ
(Message edited by ezblast on February 12, 2007) |
Phillyblast
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 06:34 am: |
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It is when the handlebar pops off in your hand at said 200+ speed
Now back to the original topic I'd love to see a Revo-powered Buell-a-busa with RR styled bodywork. |
Glitch
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 08:33 am: |
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Bomber
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 09:34 am: |
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Ez, your posts are a good indicator as to LSR's lack of a large fan base -- lack of knowledge, plain and simple
most stock motorcycles are styled by, er, ehem, stylists (no shame in that) rather than engineers in an wind tunnel -- they are the victems of fashion, a chuckle-head decision made by the FIM in the 50s, and manufacturing costs . . . . most scoots that folks have cited as hyperbikes would be pigs at speed -- the oragami, slealth fighter looks simply doesn't work well to ease a body's way through the atomostphere
strangely enough, HD and it's affiliates have a much better record than most when it comes to aero-research and application
your stated lack of interest on LSR is in no way dishonorable -- I like socks and am in no way moved by F1 auto racing -- different strokes, as Sly said all those years ago
lastly, your continued attempts to act as the thread cop, and to do away with thread drift, will only frustrate the pig, I'm thinkin -- I can remember few, if any, who have successfully accomplished that! Best of luck, though ;-} |
Ceejay
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 10:10 am: |
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thread drift along with project drift is impossible to contain, and while this thread has hit on many different topics, it has been an excellent read. One maybe cause I'm interested in the salt, two regardless of make of bike speed is damn fun, and three, some of these folks are damn interesting.
the XBRR has had all the wind tunnel stuff done to it for the most part hasn't it? to me it seems that a lot of the work is already done in order to make a hyperbike, and while I know one little change to a bike, can make a drastic difference, it seems that a lot of the major work has been performed already, just in different areas. |
Ceejay
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 10:15 am: |
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Wow glitch, that bike is cool! who's is it? |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 10:32 am: |
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That blue bike was ridden by Wes and is the work product of a group of Harley-Davidson and Buell engineers.
The XBRR bodywork has certainly gotten it share of attention. A great deal of the work that resulted in the keen aerodynamics on the XBRR was performed in the mid 80's. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 01:01 pm: |
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Come on FireMan! It's the dreaded ratio of the cubes. Surely that is what occupies your mind as you streak down the salt well into the triple digits! I suspect it's why Paul's handlebar broke. He was straining to do math on this fingers at 200+ mph and the bike couldn't take it.
How much more power (DHP) to reach 220 mph versus 180 mph? Easy peasy...
DHP = (220/180)3
DHP = (1.22)3
DHP = 1.83
which means it takes 83% more power to achieve a 22% greater peak speed.
And if anyone yawns at my cherished math, they shall be cursed!  |
Snail
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 01:42 pm: |
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Power is only part of the formula, traction becomes the key, and handling. To get traction enough to deal with the hosrspower we add lead ballast. Problem occurs when you lose traction, and the ballast starts the bike doing a side to side, 300 yd. whip.
The handlebar didn't break, it just slipped down out the detent and slapped the tank. That cased all the stress to transfer to the left bar, which upset the bike and I went into a violent slapper that threw my lfet hand free from the bar.
I held onto the frame with my left hand and maintained neutral throttle until the bike stabilzed.
It was a result of sloppy workmanship on my part. I forgot to torque the clamps on the right side.
It took threshold courage to get back on the bike after that. It scared the shit out of me. It make you realize how vulnerable we are.
When you are at the line ready to launch, its a lonely place. In the back of your mind you know that soon enough you could have a crankshaft go through a leg, or a piston come up through your nut sack.
Pulling 340 HP out of a 1K engine isn't exactly safe. And its not boring. |
Liquorwhere
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 02:34 pm: |
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Snail that is an excellent point of view...I immediately thought of Burt Munro on that Scout going 200+mph on god knows what kind of contraptions he had dreamed up. It makes that guy's accomplishments that much more incredible. To me at least. |
Jb2
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 02:50 pm: |
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Blake, thanks!
FMJ, I'm cranking as much work as I can get out the door in the next three weeks so that I can meet Snail in Denver and pick up his bike. You going to be there?
Damn we gotta find a shorter route between the midwest and the left coast. It'd be great if you guys lived next door, eh? We all know racing and the love of racing will never be that easy. It's sure not for the faint of heart. |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 02:55 pm: |
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>>>Power is only part of the formula, traction becomes the key,
And the two work in conflict, not concert, with one another.
So. . . if I am reading this correctly. . "Real men DID dance". . they just didn't INTEND to!
Yegads!
JB. . get back in the barn!
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Firemanjim
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 04:19 pm: |
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Blake,I always forget that ratio,LOL.
Paul,I had a couple of those "wiggles" at speed and it is SCARY,esp to go back out again.Gets lonely when the visor goes down.
Jim,I will check on progress of bike frame and let ya know.
I am forever wishing folks like Jim Bantz, Bob Gussenhoven,etc were just a bit closer,dang!!
On another note--if all the planets align correctly,I may be going into dyno business--more to come.
(gotta have access to mucho dyno time for new turbo combo,what better way!)
(Message edited by firemanjim on February 12, 2007) |
Snail
| | Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 05:04 pm: |
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Fireman, I remember what you told me when I was getting ready to make my very first pass on the salt.
"Ride it like a dirt bike".
Dyno? You're getting a dyno??
Take it to Bonneville and make money! |
Swordsman
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 09:59 am: |
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Snail, I've not been keeping tabs on this thread, but upon further review I take back my comment about compensating for ANYTHING.  You talk all the smack you want!
~SM |
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