| Author | Message | ||
     Toona |
It's that time of year again, time to "whittle" the block of wood into a car for my son. What kind of tips do you have? I usually do the basic tapered wedge. 5 ounce max. If it makes a difference? the track is a ramp with a flat track at the bottom design. | ||
| Rum_runner |
My little brother took 1st place three years in a row. I did the basic tapered wedge design with my extra weight under the car right in the middle. and graffit the hell out of those little nails that hold the tires on.And make sure the nails are so deep in the wood so the tires can't ride back and forth on the nails. | ||
| Gowindward |
A thin (As in only thick enough to allow for the axle kerfs in the bare block) flat slab with a pointed nose and tail. Polish the axles nails with 600 grit emery. Weight it right to the max by drilling holes in the bottom and filling with lead. Finish those off flush. This car never wins a style award, but they are allows the fastest. | ||
| Jeffb |
Lead .308 bullets, not complete shells, make great weights. Drill 2 holes from the rear forward and fill them with bullets. Remove all the wood that isn't necessary. Putting the axles in a drill to polish them speeds up that process. Jeff | ||
| Diablobrian |
nylon washers will help keep the wheel from dragging on the wood. teflon would be even better. | ||
| Toona |
I should have mentioned that I have access to a knee mill and a metal lathe. Good tips so far, keep'em coming. | ||
| Tq_freak |
yea last year didn't you put the nails in the lathe and cut them down a little to nock off the little ridges? And you cut the wheels down too if i can remember correctly You will have to send me some pics of this one when its all done cause im sure it will be awesome and just a hair illegal | ||
| Naustin |
I remember the pine wood derby... That's where all our dad's spent days building little wooden cars we weren't allowed to touch and then got together to race them and glare at each other while all us cub-scouts got bored and wondered off, right?  | ||
| Typeone |
i don't remember where i placed (didn't win obviously) but our method was exactly as Rum runner describes. wedge, drill/weight underneath, graphite the 'axles' like hell. those were always a blast as a kid. i still have my cars on a shelf and i'm 33. grams just handed them over finally. good luck! | ||
| Toona |
Tq_, that was for my "personal" car. It did well....  I only polished the axles using a drill motor. Now I need to keep things "looking" legal, while improving performance. I'm thinking about turning the nails on the lathe to reduce contact to the wheel. Thinking about "shaving" the inside of the wheels to reduce weight. I need to keep original width and diameter though. | ||
| Toona |
That's where all our dad's spent days building little wooden cars we weren't allowed to touch and then got together to race them and glare at each other while all us cub-scouts got bored and wondered off, right? Naustin, so true. Now I'm the Dad saying "don't carry it like that, don't roll it across the floor yet etc etc etc. hahaha | ||
| Steve_mackay |
I can't wait till my son is old enough to do this! I've got CNC machines, and spend my entire day drawing 'purdy 3D pictures(I do 3D modeling). Just thinking of the cool pinewood derby body I could model up and machine! | ||
| Blake |
Dad, please let the kiddo decide. | ||
| Diablobrian |
find some tiny roller bearings and fit them to the wheel  nothing visible on the outside just a pocket on the inner face of the wheel and drill/bore the hole out a little on the plastic part to avoid drag. When I worked on commercial bakery ovens we used to use a lubricant that may be very good for pine wood derby cars, It was called Dri-Slide. It was a liquid that carried graphite into the bearings before the liquid evaporated off. It got very good penetration into the bearings where powdered graphite would go everywhere but in the bearing. We spent a lot of time replacing those bronze bushings so we got to see the difference in the properties of the lubricant of choice over a broad sampling. teflon bearing liquid lubricant like tri-lube might be good too. There are loads of things that you could do with a lathe and mill, but for the most part it would completely skirt the spirit of the pine wood derby. another thing would be to shape the body to generate a little bit of lift at speed. this will decrease drag on the axles. It shouldn't take much of anything to achieve the desired effect. It is the opposite of what indy cars do. We used to drill holes in the bottom and use split shot fishing weights in ours. I even have a first place trophy from the 70's when I had the fastest car in troop 35(?). It was a basic wedge design with polished nails and lots of graphite. | ||
| Bigdaddy |
We've got two past champions somewhere around here -- if I start going in different rooms before everybody decides it's time to wake up I'll get stuff thrown at me. Great fun! Polishing the nails and the 'aero-package' are where you're going to win. We were living in Odenton MD and our scout troop had a Dads division. So after the boys lost interest we'd bring out the big hitters  | ||
| Rubberdown |
Wheel alignment is crucial. Make sure the car runs straight and true. A little graphite in the "hubs" helps too. My son has four of those still laying around, a couple did really well. | ||
| Djkaplan |
"What kind of tips do you have?" Get my dad to do it. The car didn't win the race, but we (he) won the "Best Constructed" trophy. It looked like an Indy racer from when he was a kid. All he let me do was sand on it. | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
Me and my son have done the pine wood derby thing many years. Took first twice and second once. I have gathered a bunch of information throughout the years of doing it. He (and I) are very compeditive and we thought each project out thoroughly before building. I have all the tools needed also. Those who have never done this should note there are certain rules when competing. roller bearings, washers, etc. and such are not alowed for example. I am not sure how much experience you have or the tools you may be using. But the alignment tool, wheel spacer tool, and nail streightener are some good tools to use to gain the extra edge. If interested email me or PM me and I will get the info together and foreward it to you as I have it all saved on my computer at home. I would even be willing to let you BORROW the tools for this if you would be kind enough to send them back. I spent alot of cash (and internet time) on this information and these tools, and my little one is almost at the age to get involved in scouts and I am sure the cycle will start again. I will post some pictures tonight of the cars that we have built. They are pretty sweet looking. they are also fun to do WITH your child. | ||
| Toona |
Just a side note, My son designs his car, I cut it-for safety reasons, he sands his car and he paints his car (no matter what it looks like). I just make it "work". I was on the "my dad built my car for me" side of the fence when I was a kid. It did well, but it was the same as any other Hot Wheels car - NO "connection" with the car, it was just another toy....that I wasn't allowed to play with, except for race day. This race is actually for our church AWANA group. I referenced the thread as Pinewood Derby, figuring it was more commonly known that way. My daughter also designs her's. There is a leaders/parents race as well. I'll get a pic of last years cars. There are rules- no bearings, speed "adders" etc. for the kids cars. Parents cars only have to fit in the "go/no go" box (length/width/height), no weight limit, bearings allowed etc. Eric, I'll drop you a PM. Thx, Dan | ||
| Scooter808484 |
This is really old technology,from when I was a kid, but we made a car with a kind of rounded off nose, with the point at the top and rounding under to the front axle. The track we were using had a pin that dropped out the bottom to control the start. With that rounded section, painted shined and waxed up real good, as the pin dropped, the car would get a slight head start and get moving just a little before the others... a little "hole shot" if you will. Don't know how much it helped, but we won! | ||
| Djkaplan |
Don't those tracks have individual lanes to keep the cars separated? Seems like there might be some friction between the outside of the plastic wheels and the curbs that could be addressed. | ||
| Diablobrian |
narrowing the wheels is a good thing for reducing drag. Also remember that every time the wheels touch the guide track it slows the car down a bit. DJK is on to an important issue there. | ||
| Bcordb3 |
Can a small magnate be put somewhere near the nose? Or would that be cheating. I don't know. If the "start" pin is steal in would an advantage for a hole shot. I think that technology was tried in the soap box derby years ago and was banned. | ||
| Toona |
DJK, I'll have to think on some way to install some kind of "guide" other than the wheels rubbing the strip down the middle of the track. DiabloB, the wheels need to be stock diameter and width for the kids cars. I have a set of "wafer" wheels for mine. I like the idea of an upside down wing for lift.  My mind is turning on this idea...(for my car) the kids cars are already designed. Bcordb3, the start pins on the track are wood, good idea though. Scooter, I did the upward taper on the front of my car last year, a fractional gain, but lots of fractions add up to wins instead of losses. I think I'm going to try to cut the inside diameter of the wheel to thin them (hollow them out). Less rotational mass to get moving. I could do this w/o changing the outside dimensions of the wheels. Lots of good ideas, keep'em coming. | ||
| Djkaplan |
It was an electormagnet and the system carefully hidden in the nose of the car. When the start gate pulled down, the kid would close the circuit to the magnet so it would help pull the car out of the starting gate. The were out and out cheaters. | ||
| Etennuly |
For my son to win with the group of experienced dads' we were up against, would have required more cheating than even Jr. Johnson could come up with in one season. So "We" went the other way. They had a trophy for best looking car. I own a body shop so I have access to, and experience with, all forms of body shaping and finishing materials. "We" sculpted a Dodge Viper with factory color paint and stripes, a lot of body details, and blacked out windows. It finished fifth in the race(yeah he knocked a nail out just before the event). He got the best looking trophy though. I built a second one, simple wedge type, and installed a "C" rocket engine in it. I set it up with a fuse and was ready to launch a test run when one of the dads(a fireman) thought it would be a "bad idea" inside a public building. D@#$ fun busters! | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
Toona You have some Emails!  | ||
| Iamike |
Oh does this bring back memories. Remember that this is for the kids and not the dads! We started having a dads class and threw the kids cars in it that were disqualified. That was after a dad and son walked in and right before the check-in station the dad got the car out of the box and handed it to the boy. It was obvious that the boy hadn't touched it up to that point. We were happy that it lost the first race. Most of the time my son had one of the ugliest cars but he got more out of it that way. | ||
| Toona |
Fire... I got the emails, I'm still readin'. I'll try to call you Sunday Afternoon. Thanks for the info. Hard part will be living up to all this help, I can't come away without a trophy now. | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
I'll be riding all day w/ The NEBO crew. Us New england Guys are being spoiled right now with a 60 deg. day In December so I doubt I will hear The phone  ......I'm Starting To Like This Global Warming Thing. | ||
| Toona |
Ride Eric, ride. | ||
| Rex |
get rid of the friction. sand the nails get rid of the ridges of the plastic...for example: the tires have the mold strips left on them when you get them...grind it down smooth so the wheels, the inside of the wheels, the axles are all sanded and smooth. use graffite in the axles and make sure that the wheels turn without binding. try to get the right or left front tire to stand off of the track slightly, then you are running on only three wheels, less friction. some people sand the tires down to washer thickness vrs. flat...the least amount of area on the track the better. do the full maximum weight as possible. longer wheelbase is more stable than shorter ones... front and back...wedge it up a little so it is not scraping on the track when it goes over the slope area. wheel alignment is key...no wobbling, either |
