| Author |
Message |
    
Brucelee
| | Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 10:30 pm: | 
|
Well, you are entitled to you opinion. Just like me.
Now, take your medication and retire for the evening.
PS-I have said on many occasions that my XB is the best MC I have ever owned. You know that since you have been party to these interchanges.
I just think you are being disingenuous.
In my opinion. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 10:44 pm: |
|
I'm the one being disingenuous?
This is my bleeding heart thread about TVR and you're here telling me you don't give a shit?
I really wanted to know that. I can feel the sincerity crossing the ocean. Dick head.
Rocket |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 10:45 pm: |
|
Rocket, please tell us how you really feel.
Much better now thanks!
Rocket |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 10:56 pm: |
|
We have established that you have name calling down to an art. Good for you!
On the TVR front, the truth hurts I guess. The guys did not do their homework apparently.
As the Stones said,
"You can't always get what you want!"
RIP--TVR.
Which by the way, I always thought were pretty cool little cars, esp the Griffith.
Such is life!
PS- you can dish it out but your sure can't take it. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 11:21 pm: |
|
At fear of making this thread entertaining for you, please f*ck off to another thread.
If it's so important to you, I'll willingly argue with you via email.
Rocket |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 11:24 pm: |
|
I'm off to bed now to dream about Highway 101 and me kicking Brucee's arse in his Porsche in one of these......
Good night sweetheart!
Rocket |
Chainsaw
| | Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 11:56 pm: |
|
Why am I chastising the government? Because they have an elected right to protect an industry and a workforce on behalf of the people they represent
You've told me before that YOU DON"T EVEN VOTE, yet you expect the Government to come to the rescue to serve your personal nostalgic interests. I find that highly hypocritical of you Rocket. Are you gonna sit out the next election too? That'll teach 'em a lesson!
As for the Queen, and her alleged $720 million dollars, I wonder why you would say such a thing anyway?
The 'alledged' figure was reported in Forbes and illustrates how one highly respected person in Great Britain could save the company with the stroke of a pen if it were in the best interest of the Commonwealth. $30 million is chump change. Bill Gates spent more buying DaVinci's Codex than TVR was sold for.
If you really cared, you'd step away from your keyboard and organize a protest that matters. Frankly, a protest of 500 people is a pathetic turnout in a city of 7.4 million...PATHETIC! That's like the lunch crowd at your average McDonalds...and only 2500 people signed a petition... that is supposed to spark the Government into action? Come on! I'm supposed to believe this company's sale actually matters to your countrymen?
PS- you can dish it out but your sure can't take it.
Yup. Rocket jumps on this board and bitches endlessly about our Government, our President, and our preference in bikes. Critiquing a failing British car maker sure gets his panties in a wad.  |
Mortarmanmike120
| | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 03:12 am: |
|
It's not so much 'fork those foreign bastards'. Everyone has a right to buy in a free market.
It's the governments that should not allow this to happen.
Rocket, I understand you are upset...sorry. However your two statements are contradictory. When the government gets involved it is NO LONGER a free market. Welcome to the western world. Government involvement evolves into government CONTROL. That's why governments with the strictest controls generally make crap that nobody wants. I haven't heard of many quality automobiles coming from countries such Russia or China. Free market rules, unfortunately it sometimes also hurts.
I'm not trying to be an ass, even though you called me a bigot before... I hate to hear about TVR, but I don't think government controls would really help things. Then again what do I know, I build Japanese cars in Kentucky??  |
Mortarmanmike120
| | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 03:25 am: |
|
As an aside, how does the European Union play into such matters? Wasn't that one of it's purposes? To allow fluid exchange of commerce and industry across countries within the Union. Have any industries moved operations INTO the UK? I'm not slamming, just curious. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 05:01 am: |
|
Rocket,
The one reason you forget to mention regarding the decline of TVR is their appalling build quality and customer service.
They make visually appealing cars that are mouthwatering on paper, but a pain in the arse to own!
Overheating in traffic? Oh they all do that sir.
I was at Croft circuit last week speaking to a guy with a very nice supercharged Lotus Elise. He had owned 4 TVR's and knew the company chairman etc, but said that he would never buy another one until they got their act together and made cars that could be driven every day and without a breakdown truck following behind.
Pretty much every TVR owner I speak to says the same.
The Government shouldn't have to rescue a company that has driven a stake through it's own heart. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 08:06 am: |
|
You've told me before that YOU DON"T EVEN VOTE, yet you expect the Government to come to the rescue to serve your personal nostalgic interests. I find that highly hypocritical of you Rocket. Are you gonna sit out the next election too? That'll teach 'em a lesson!
This isn't about me, and no I REFUSE TO VOTE UNTIL THEY HAVE SOMEONE WORTHY OF REPRESENTING MY BELIEFS. That means an end to ridiculous parking legislation enforced by over zealous wardens. A country that doesn't need 40.000.000 CCTV cameras to monitor my every movement, especially where my vehicles are concerned. A country that's not hell bent on enforcing ridiculous speeding legislation so I can go about my daily business at 35 or 40 mph without worrying if I bust a speed camera by more than 3 mph, thus putting my licence and therefore my livelihood at risk. I dream of moving abroad where the air is cleaner and the people still have soul and passion because their government hasn't brow beaten them into Orwellian style puppets.
As for the Queen, I'm no Royalist but I do know Forbes talks stupid. The Queen has to, as all Royals do, and only a handful of which are supported by state benefit at that, declare their spending budgets - which are strictly observed by government (public) auditors and are open to scrutiny for example by press agencies. Only matters of security and secrecy are kept under wraps for obvious reasons. Her Majesty can't for example put Buckingham Palace on the market. Nor can she pop down to JCT600 and buy a 360 Modena with anything other than her personal fortune. Oh yes, she has one of those, but it does not equate to the figure Forbes or you willingly banter, but if it did she has no reason to spend her personal wealth on TVR or Aston Martin or any other company come to it. In fact a personal fortune would allow her the same choices as you or I or that lying Russian, so if she bought TVR it would have to be with the utmost discretion for fear of the nations outcry demanding she spend her personal wealth on children's hospitals and hospices or animal sanctuaries.
As for the less than 500 TVR's that turned up at Number 10 last week, and the number of names on the petition, you really do show yourself as an ignorant American who understands nothing about British culture. Those figures, from efforts put together in less than a month since the Russian's announcement are very good indeed. To garner so many TVR's from all over the UK into the nations capital at such short notice is remarkable. I doubt your daily Ford or a gentry Rolls could achieve the same figures. You wouldn't understand.
I'll tell you something else quite remarkable too. To stop a vehicle anywhere near Downing Street, in fact make that anywhere along The Strand or around Westminster Abbey or Houses of Parliament without the police giving you a serious ticking off just isn't possible these days. Allowing nearly 500 TVR's to parade and to park anywhere in that area these days is no mean feat let me tell you. The British Government and the law enforcement agencies take threats from terrorism and risks from attack very seriously. Remember only a few years ago when a truck loaded with pipe bombs was parked close to Downing Street? Thought not.
As for my bitching about the US government or president, only where it's due, in my humble opinion that is fella. There's a difference between constructive argument and debate for argument and debates sake, but referencing my willingness to argue or debate to clarify your reasoning for the above comments of yours is just childish.
To clarify my feelings towards government involvement, I would not wish any government to be involved in such matters. I just find it ludicrous that a British company established for nearly 60 years can be taken to foreign shores and have nothing British put back in, except in this case a name and an engine. I'd therefore ask that my government have in place legislation that prevents this from happening. The purpose of such is to protect the workforce and the product so it can be "Made in England" and always remain so if it is in the interest of those concerned. What should be in place is a regulation that controls how and why a move to foreign shores be allowed or not when a company employs a workforce above and beyond a certain number, whether that company builds toilet seats, telephones or TVR's. Those regulations should be clear to any prospective overseas purchaser well in advance of any bid / sale / takeover effort.
Matt, there are issues with quality control but the majority of problems come from those who buy the car on looks first then performance figures second and have previously owned a production built performance car that isn't really anything like a TVR. They come from Boxters, SLK's, Japanese offerings, whatever, and they're expecting the wrong thing. They're looking for pose value and fashion status and expect the car to behave like a family saloon. TVR are essentially racing cars in road trim with little refinement. The current chassis is in fact a near enough exact copy of the TVR Tuscan race car one make series, which was the fastest one make series in the world incidentally. TVR power plants are all derivatives of that race car engine too, designed and built by TVR originally. TVR don't buy in door handles from Morris Marinas anymore. Nor are their seats, their instruments, their steering racks, their exhaust systems, their switch gear, the list goes on, bought in. This stuff is put together by those 450 odd people who make it in an old brick built factory in Blackpool, then they set about joining all the pieces on a concrete floor. There are no fancy conveyor belts. There are no robots. There is old fashioned traditional manufacturing methods and assembly taking place to harness something that extra bit special and that extra bit more hands on, and as such that is going to equate to quality and build issues when you start to compare to cars made in a modern plant using modern facilities. TVR make raw drivers cars with minimum fuss and creature comfort. No climate control. No cruise control. No electric hoods. You get the picture. They are also built nearly all by hand. Your Lotus isn't, and more significantly your Lotus comparison doesn't harness 400+ BHP capable of nigh on 200 MPH in a plastic car that weighs around 1000KG give or take. TVR's are not meant for stock brokers. Unfortunately though, building such a car for so little money requires sales, no matter who they're to, so the company has to rely on the customer understanding what they are buying into or hope the negative comments don't hurt too much. It's worth remembering at this point that Peter Wheeler put a lot of his personal wealth into TVR and built them at a profit margin that would sustain sales with a small return enough to keep the wheels turning.
Rocket |
Trojan
| | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 08:34 am: |
|
I understand that TVR's are built by hand by specialists, and that they are not the run of the mill sports car like the mass produced Porsches etc. But (and it is a big but) they do need to build cars suitable for use by normal people on normal roads in normal driving conditions if they are to make a go of it.
Selling a handful of cars to dyed in the wool enthusiasts who use them on high days and holidays, or the occasional track day, is not the route to financial security for a car maker, especially as they still have quality control issues even with this limited market.
They need to sacrifice a little principle and build cars that their prospective customers want, not what they themselves think they should be. Once they do that they will be on safer ground.
Phil Read went to visit the Bentley factory recently to view their production methods. The new boss at Bentley used to be at Toyota and is a bit of a whizz kit apparently. Bentley have increased their sales by something like 250% in the last year by completely rebuilding their manufacturing psychology (VW mone has helped too of course!). They now even make the component trolleys in house to make the production process exactly how they want it. Each worker can now do the job of every other worker in the factory, so gone are the elitist days of Rolls Royce/Bentley when it was very much a closed shop.
They recently interviewed lots of people who had been made redundant with the collapse of the Rover group, and not one person was up to the standard required.
Maybe the TVR team should pay Bentley a visit?
(Message edited by trojan on December 04, 2006)
(Message edited by trojan on December 04, 2006) |
Nutsnbolt
| | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 09:06 am: |
|
I'm depressed.
Virtually all the Americans on this thread have basically said "... well, that's just the way it goes." NOT ALL THE AMERICANS... JUST A VAST MAJORITY OF THEM! I know I'd need to clear that up first. I guess we are conditioned as Americans to expect to be bought out, sold out, taken for a ride, lied to, exploited, and basically treated like crap when it concerns the open market, and overall business in general. When was it that we decided that profit would overshadow our passion. As an American, I suppose I get it. I live it. I see it every day. It's a bit aggravating. I guess we are just used to it, by now.
We are so disposable as a society that's it disheartening. But, like I said, we are used to it. We have been watching for YEARS the stores that we GREW UP with and around literally disappear before our very eyes, only to be eaten alive by Wal Mart's and Super Targets and other Weapons of Mass Societal Destruction. Sure, we get a bit emotional about seeing "your" Mom and pop grocery leave town for about 3 minutes and then we go back to the "ooooooohhhhh, bigger, cheaper, more" mentality. Some of us who grow up in small towns around America actually miss our little shops. We look back and say that it was so much different back in the day! NO KIDDING!! We actually cared back then. Now, we care but take little to no action directly. We expect someone else to do it or just decide to give up. Like I said, DEPRESSING.
But, I suppose that's what makes us Americans. So be it. I guess i fit in the exact mold of "nothing I can do about it." I wish it were different. A little too "pie in the sky" I suppose.
This is not a direct coralation to the TVR thing but close enough. Enough for you to actually understand Rockets "passion" about it. Give the guy a break.
Mark |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 09:43 am: |
|
If I own something, say like a company, that is called an asset. In a free society, all things being equal, I am FREE to exchange that asset for something else, say like cash.
This FREEDOM to own and exchange property within the law is essential to a free and just society. Apparently, the TVR transaction was legal, since Rocket has not said otherwise.
Again, I guess I just don't see the problem here. If the transaction was illegal, go to court. If not, stop whining and blame the toads who did the dumb transaction.
As a side note, it does seem like all the great names from the British auto past have faded away or been revived by someone else, like BMW reviving the Mini.
That ought to tell you something about those cars. The market speaks! |
Mortarmanmike120
| | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 12:32 pm: |
|
I agree. I'm not here to bash Rocket, just to sing the praises of a free market. When the government gets involved with anything other then issues of public safety it's a mess. If you sell me your motorcycle, I should OWN it. If I then decide to disassemble it and make it into 500 whirly gigs to put in my front yard...so be it. Probably not a good decision on my part but it is still my decision to make.
When government gets involved, you get screwed up industries. Look at the airlines. |
Lost_in_ohio
| | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 12:35 pm: |
|
What americans forget is that you vote with your cash. I do not like the kroger grocery store.....I do not spend my money with them. I do not like the way walgreen and CVS pharmacys are tearing down our neighborhoods and putting up their stores on way too many corners. I do not spend my money with them.
You have control..... Don't like walmart, don't spend your money with them. Most americans don't have the will to make the choice.
I got bitched at about where I parked my motorcycle at a mall, It was on the sidewalk under an awning in front of a closed store not in the walk way or blocking anything. I no longer spend money at that mall. I walked the renta cop back to the store with me to watch me return my purchase. As reason for purchase returned hassled by Security Guard.
IMHO most americans don't stand for anything, other than whats on TV tonight and don't mess with my gas prices. Are we short sighted or what. |
Nutsnbolt
| | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 12:58 pm: |
|
Bruce-Wow... I am stunned. I guess college was worth it. I suppose as a freebee I got a degree in sarcasm, because I can read through yours like used Neutrogena.
I'm not sure anyone has said it was ILLEGAL. But, way to inject your own form of what this thread was not about.
The only PROBLEM, I suppose, is just a socio-economical/moral problem. Not necessarily a Legal problem. He was venting, you were looking for someone to pick on.
Let's say for instance, some Russian investor came over here with a WAD of cash, ran up to San Clemente, purchased the land just north of the base where "Old Man's beach" is, if it were possible (all things being equal) and decided that he was going to build huge rock formations in the ocean side there to build upon his idea of a new "shipping port" for tourists to take off and go see Catalina. Therefore, breaking up what makes that beach noteworthy; it's waves and noteriaty. Now, there would be an entire "crapstorm" over that, even though to be a member to "old man's" you have to be on a 5 million year waiting list (exaggeration, but not too far off) I suppose there would be some protests and really the only ones who would benefit from it would be the ones next in line in this generation to be part of old man's beach. However, it would probably make the news showing about 500 people upset and in a tirade over it all lining up outside the municipal buildings with their surfboards, long hair, tans, and flower shorts showing their solidarity for what they hold sacred, and then there would be others saying "... if it's illegal, go to court, if it's not, stop whining" Even though, "old man's beach" is considered an institution around Southern California. I mean for god's sake, where would Jimmy Buffett go surfing at when he came to Irvine to play for goodness sakes. Some things are just part of community and the landscape, and make up part of the lifestyle within that community. You can't tell me that there wouldn't be groups from all over Southern Cal to get an initiative to stop the sale of such an "institution" to the Russian investors held by the surfing community. Even if he promises to not disturb the landscape, but still puts restaurants and what not's on there virtually destroying what makes that part of California beautiful. (the lack of buildings)
But, I digress. I suppose that it's not going to make much sense to the badwebbers not from or around southern California, but, I'm hoping that you and others atleast see my point.
As a sidenote, you can make damn sure that Huell Howser would be first in line to keep the beauty and nostalgia of California stay beautiful and nostalgic. It's the idea of keeping the icons of society around or atleast giving them a shot, or atleast letting them know that they are appreciated. Really, isn't that all we really want as a people. To be respected and appreciated? I suppose I live in a different state of mind.
"In my own opinion."
Mark
(Message edited by nutsnbolt on December 04, 2006) |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 02:02 pm: |
|
"I suppose I live in a different state of mind."
I would concur with this statement 100%.
(Message edited by brucelee on December 04, 2006) |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 05:44 pm: |
|
I've got bad news for my American cousins. Your shopping mall dilemma has cursed the UK too. Truth is, reading these past few posts I thought you were speaking of the UK.
Matt, your comments I'm sure would be most agreeable to many TVR fans. Me? I go the other way. I'll wait and see what comes next but I feel like it would be better that TVR is no more and the Peter Wheeler cars be TVR's Swansong. Maybe I'll change my mind later. Cars and motorcycles, like I always say, are fickle choices. I just thought it great that TVR are / were the last bastion of British Bulldog engineering.
Bentley eh. Well I have noticed how common place they are these days and that is not an exaggeration. I agree with your observations about them too BUT that is why they look much more like a mass production car these days. All be it a very big one, but it is easy to see they are not as prestigious as they once were and that is because they are noticeably lacking the styling cues that gave them a certain nobility.
Notice how that big Chrysler they're selling like hot cakes in the UK looks very much like a Bentley? £40000 will buy you the top spec limited edition petrol variation. The diesel is around £30000 and is all but sold out. I was looking at them the other day.
Now those that own a Bentley that cost what, £140.000, must feel a lot less self important when the cheap seats that is Chrysler are damn near indistinguishable to the man in the street and that Chrysler just nicked your parking space outside Mr Chu's restaurant. To add insult to injury, Chrysler even made their boot / trunk badge look like the age old Bentley one.
Hey there should be a law against that. It's brand theft again, lol.
Rocket |
Bad_karma
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2006 - 04:50 am: |
|
These things happen when you depend on a government or governments to lookout for your interests. Get a few billion pounds, buy a few election then you can have what you want.
Joe |
Bomber
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2006 - 01:40 am: |
|
TVRs fate is a bummer, no doubt -- they made some very cool stuff -- from a product worthiness measure, they deseve to be around
From a business standpoint, it's interesting that someone mentioned HD's negotiation with eh union and state of Wisconsin . . . .
everyone that owns astock in HD also owns some responsibility for that situation -- HD belives (likely correctly) that their stockholders want a continuation or improvment on their past fiscal performance -- HD took steps to try and ensure that --
TVR didn't, couldn't, got left behind by the marketplace, I'm not familiar enough with the company to know --
what I DO know is that every for profit company has the same goal, and everyone who's got a 401k, a retirement package, or trades stocks in any way shape or form is, in part, responsible for the way publically held companies behave.
did the working people and state get it stuck to them if they agreed? intersting, yes |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2006 - 06:46 am: |
|
TVR have been privately owned by three people, well four if you count father and son, in their 58 year history.
Peter Wheeler, a chemical engineer who made an awful lot of money on the back of the North Sea oil boom in the 70's, bought the ailing company from the Lilley's (father and son) in the early 80's. It is Wheeler who was responsible back then for rescuing the near bankrupt company and injecting much needed cash. He is the man also responsible for turning around the company and introducing the modern era cars, including the Tuscan racer, and its race series, and the Speed 12 and its entry into Sportscar Racing and Le Mans.
Wheeler, not often one for interviews, and a straight talking man often critical of the motor industry workings and its politics was always one who went it alone. It is perhaps his gritty determination to do things his own way, and forgive me for saying this as I mean it most sincerely, rather like we imagine Erik Buell does to some degree, and the cars of course, that allures people to the marque in a rather unique and highly passionate way. Wheeler stood by his words and when he said he sold TVR's for just enough profit to keep a healthy return, you believed him.
What the Russian is trying to do is build on TVR's current reputation, but move it into a serious business entity by I guess something like making a tube frame Buell with its rather great design but inherent problems needing a little sorting, develop into a rather more reliable and therefore acceptable to more, Buell XB. That is not what TVR is about under Wheeler's ownership. The fans don't want air con, ABS brakes, 4 seats. Yes sometimes reliability does suffer but not as much as some would have you believe, but most are aware of the risk when they buy a TVR. Aware that it might cost them more in the long run. But when did 200mph in such a monster car ever become so cheap elsewhere?
If the TVR bug bites you, you'll never let go. Trust me, I have close friends who own TVR's and that is coincidental to our friendships, not the cars bringing us together, and we all display the same symptoms when it comes to TVR.
The story goes that the young Russian bought TVR as a hobby, and was going to improve (with cash) Wheeler's ethos. That is not what is happening, and it is the Russian's company to do with as he pleases. Still he is a liar and a young fool though he broke no laws - unfortunately.
Rocket |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2006 - 06:55 am: |
|
Write the man a letter! Sometimes it works. |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2006 - 10:06 am: |
|
"Still he is a liar and a young fool though he broke no laws - unfortunately."
I assume this closes the matter? |
Davegess
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2006 - 11:24 am: |
|
At least Morgan is still going strong!! |
Red_chili
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2006 - 01:47 pm: |
|
Wow. No time to read such diatribes...
A marque is more than a financial entity. However, a business cannot survive as anything but, and ignores market forces to its peril. The tension between these is the pain felt here IMHO.
For those desiring government intervention, I put it to you: Please cite ONE instance where this has happened, with effectiveness, and with no dire long-term economic consequences.
I will patiently wait... |
Bomber
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2006 - 10:42 pm: |
|
HD is one example, Chili -- Chrysler is another, if you'll define intervention as trade policy deck stacking -- if you mean the government actually running a business, then you are absolutely right -- governements run happily in the red for decades, which means they don't understand cause, effect, or profit ;-} |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2006 - 10:47 pm: |
|
Blake, I wrote TVR an email recently, congratulating the Russian for rebuilding TVR and securing their future..................in Blackpool. Now I find myself filling in petitions about the Italian proposed move.
Bruceebabe, are you still here? I assumed Nuts had done a sterling job on you. Tell me. Why do you insist in making a prat of yourself? It seems a favourite pastime of yours where the BadWeB is concerned.
Man, you're like a death at a birthday party.
Can't you just slip away somewhere and masturbate? Your testosterone is clearly filling your brains, never mind your balls.
Dave, Morgan is an old mans car and in no way similar to anything TVR. My mum loves them.
Chilli, the Chinese purchase of Benelli recently.
Rocket |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2006 - 11:04 pm: |
|
R-man.
You have made it clear that you have two speeds.
1-Rant
2-Insult.
How about trying some logic, reason, and manners for a change?
You might find the change will do you good! |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 06:13 am: |
|
Bruce, let's be right. What part of 'conversation' have you brought to this thread?
You've come here to piss in the wind, as usual.
Me rant? I'm not sure I'm ranting. I see it as me sharing information with others here who are not party to such news unless they're tuned in elsewhere looking for it. I mean, the TVR recent saga hasn't made Fox has it? Granted I may have 'ranted' a little, but that's just my usual colourful tones.
As for insults, you earned them. Trust me, I'm a good judge of where to sling them. In your case it's almost a pleasure, but to be honest, because you're such a dull personality online I often don't bother responding to a lot of shit you contribute.
How's the Redline going down anyway? I mean, you were 'sacrosanct' about drinking that stuff over Mobil 1 recently. So much so you wasted a week of your life screaming out against Mobil and praising the bejeezus out of Redline. And here you are in my thread trying to give me a hard time because I feel passionate about a brand of sportscar of which the company who manufacture it are facing some major upheaval, and an uncertain future.
Did I tell you Brucester, all TVR's run on Mobil 1 from new. Stick that in your pipe and, er smoke it?????
Rocket |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 09:41 am: |
|
Always nice to have you prove my points for me R-man. Saves me the work and time.
Thank you! |
Red_chili
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 10:25 am: |
|
For those desiring government intervention, I put it to you: Please cite ONE instance where this has happened, with effectiveness, and with no dire long-term economic consequences.
I will patiently wait...
HD is an example of gov't imposing LESS confiscatory policy - except tariffs. I remember the Japanese getting hit with that too in the 70s and early 80s, which they worked around via loopholes. Ineffective, and lower quality I might add (my 82 Toyota pickup bed, made in the USA, rusted out far sooner than the Japanese cab). I might also add (because we studied it in grad school) that the HD turnaround was due more to their realizing they did not sell motorcycles, but an experience and identity, which they capitalized on in spades - and then improved motorcycle quality in leaps.
Chrysler, you mean that German company? Same story, to what effect? The Chinese buying Benelli is not government intervention, but (I take it at face value, I've not followed that story, so open to correction) basically a nationalized business.
Are you proposing nationalizing business as a way of preserving them? What has the track record been of businesses so 'saved' in the last century?
I'm talking government trade policy aimed at protecting domestic industry. Still waiting for a success story.
(Message edited by Red_Chili on December 07, 2006)
(Message edited by Red_Chili on December 07, 2006) |
Davegess
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 11:35 am: |
|
Dave, Morgan is an old mans car and in no way similar to anything TVR. My mum loves them.
 |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 02:30 pm: |
|
The Chinese buyers of Benelli were talking about moving production to China.
Benelli's debt lay with Italian banking houses so the law prevented the company from leaving Italy.
The labour unions stepped in at that time to protecting the Italian workforce.
Hey, but this is only what I've read. My point however is simple. No company should be uprooted from its country of origin unless it is done so lock stock and barrel, therefore maintaining the existing product.
Buying just the name Norton is proof enough of what a f*ck up it can be, never mind the dilemma that faces TVR.
Rocket |
Frankfast
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 09:11 pm: |
|
Government is not doing it's job if it doesn't protect the interest of the people from these free market jerks. |
Johnnylunchbox
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 10:28 pm: |
|
I'd wish they'd move GM production and ownership to China. The quality of their vehicles would probably improve.
That was a joke. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Friday, December 08, 2006 - 05:45 am: |
|
God no. Saab's built in China. Wherever next!
That was a joke too, lol.
Rocket |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Friday, December 08, 2006 - 02:01 pm: |
|
News coming out today.............
Is TVR about to be taken over?
Amid stories of the company's move of its production facilities to foreign shores comes a rumour that former workers at Jensen Motors, which sadly collapsed in 2002 before it could sell any of its £40,000 SV-8s, have bought the rights to the Speed Six-powered product line as well as all the cars currently stalled in production.
According to one local news outlet (see link below), the North West Development Agency is in talks with TVR and a buyer, as yet unnamed.
A meeting apparently took place this week somewhere in the south of England between the interested parties, according to the local TGWU convenor, and negotiations remain in progress. An announcement is expected within the week.
Let's wait and see what's proposed.
Rocket |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 12:56 pm: |
|
There is a ray of hope for TVR
The TVR trademark is up for sale.
Contrary to what most people -- including PistonHeads -- believed, it now appears that the TVR trademark is owned by Blackpool Automotive, the production company that TVR owner Nikolai Smolenski spun off, and which used to be called TVR Engineering.
PistonHeads' investigations with the UK's Patents Office have revealed that Blackpool Automotive, currently in administration, owns the TVR trademark -- and that the company's up for sale (see link below).
Blackpool Automotive's listed assets include:
TVR trade marks for the UK, EU & US
Moulds & tooling - TVR Tuscan, Tamora, Sagaris & T350
Leasehold premises 14,000 sq m
Manufacturing plant, equipment, fixtures and fittings
Work in progress and vehicle stock
Draft turnover 12 months 31 December 2005 - £18.87m
Smolenski spun off TVR Engineering (as it was then called) from the holding company with the aim of moving production elsewhere, originally to another site in Blackpool and then -- when talks with the local council fell through -- abroad, with Bertone's factory in Italy strongly tipped.
It was thought that Smolenski had retained the trademark in the holding company but this now appears to be incorrect.
As to who's buying Blackpool Automotive, no-one's gone public but there is speculation that Al Melling, one of three engineers credited with the design of the TVR AJP engine (he's the A, as in Al, of that acronym) is interested. If true, then Melling is one of some 15-20 investors who have expressed an interest in buying the company, according to a story in the Independent newspaper. Melling is also progenitor of the already infamous four-turbo, 1,200bhp 6-litre V10-powered Hellcat.
TVR's directors, in the form of managing director David Oxley and Smolenski, aren't saying anything.
However the upshot is that Blackpool Automotive, rather than just owning TVR's physical assets, which have been described as being in less than perfect condition, also owns the name. This makes the company far more valuable, and means that a buyer will be able to restart TVR production with the right badge on the cars' bonnets. As long as their pockets are deep enough, that is.
While speculation about the future can be illuminating, it shouldn't be forgotten that hundreds of livelihoods were in TVR's hands. This news sheds just a glimmer of hope that those livelihoods -- and all that hard-earned expertise and know-how -- may at some point be rescued.
Let's hope so.
I've pointed out before that Al Melling is also the man responsible for the Norton Nemesis V8, as well as having his hands in developing other 'motorcycles'. Car nuts should check out the Hellcat link at the above link I posted.
Rocket |
|
