| Author | Message | ||
     Trojan |
I just don't know what all this fuss is about. If Buell isn't building the bike you want, buy a Honda. All very well until nobody wants it and every one goes elsewhere...then what? New models are the lifeblood of the industry. They are what drags people into showrooms, makes the front pages and encourages us to buy a bike in the first place. Without constant new parts, new models and improvement you end up with the same result as BSA/Triumph/Norton etc. Back in the 60's the UK had a motorcycle industry that thought it didn't need new models and new investment because they were arrogant enough to believe that they had no competition, and that customer loyalty would see them through. By the time they realised they were wrong it was too late. i.e. No money, No factory and no customers. Buell need to see that the naked 'sportfighter' market is a lot more crowded than it was 4 years ago and that there are new players joining all the time with new shiny hi-tech products to tempt people with. I for one want to see the Buell model that is a KTM beater, and thr sooner the better. (Message edited by trojan on November 20, 2006) | ||
| Diablobrian |
I think they do Matt. I think we are on the cusp of the next revolutionary change in the Buell product line. Once again, I'm not an "insider", and if I was I'd be keeping my mouth shut about what was coming. The silence regarding radical change from several of the insiders is deafening. Take that for what it's worth, that and a buck still won't buy a cup of coffee any more. I'm the first to look for performance upgrades. That is not out of NEED, but because I WANT it. Huge difference. Don't get hung up on the discussion of abilities. It was used for illustration of the fact the market is driven by "WANT" rather than "NEED". | ||
| Davegess |
Matt, I don't know what Buell has coming next. I think the 2008 bikes introduced next July MAY have some tasty surprises. I do think the XB platform will continue for a while. To everyone who thinks Buell does not have a clue because you don't think they are introducing NEW stuff often enough, name one motorcycle company that has seen a 100 fold increase in production in 15 years. Triumph is the only company that bears any comparison to Buell in terms of production growth abd they are NEVER att he cutting edge of desing or performance. Nice bikes but not building a superbike. I am very optimistic about Buell's future. They keep moving in the right direction. | ||
| Jon |
Not liking the new bike does not mean that the person doing the not liking has a wrong perspective or is discontent. I dislike the new bike for the pretentious marketing ploy ("screaming for customization" angle) and the silly number board. It's embarrassing. For the record: Buell is my orange, and that is exactly what I wanted in 2001. It still is and always will be, I suspect. It just has a quality that is almost hard to define for me. Screaming for customization....Sheesh! | ||
| Trojan |
Triumph is the only company that bears any comparison to Buell in terms of production growth abd they are NEVER att he cutting edge of desing or performance. The new 675 passed you by then Dave? By the way, you forgot KTM when you mention production growth  (Message edited by trojan on November 20, 2006) | ||
| Davegess |
The 675 is cool but not cutting edge i think. I would love to see KTM's street bike numbers. | ||
| Rocketman |
Buell are behind the times. It's my belief that Buell will mimic somewhat the way Harley have reinvented themselves over the years. Buell will continue to market their existing platform(s) until which time they will be seen as a traditional motorcycle based on basic sound engineering principles whilst showing advanced technologies (Buell speak for quirky ideas) 2008 will only be worth waiting for if you wish to remain faithful to the brand for the way it is today. They'll never go anything but air cooled V twin. Mr Buell can easily keep the old lump going well up to his retirement age. Rocket | ||
| Tripp |
my apple IS orange!!  | ||
| Mike748 |
If it ain't Orange, it's a lemon.  (Message edited by mike748 on November 20, 2006) | ||
| Tpoppa |
In all honesty, do you think the latest Buell Model was influenced more by Erik's engineering and racing ability or HD's ultra-conservative approach to development and model variation? To me, it is painfully obvious that HD is calling most of the shots for Buell. That is unfortunate for Buell and Buell enthusiasts. If Erik had his way, Buell would have a cutting edge water-cooled motor. We already know that the VROD motor was originally a Buell motor until HD took it from them. Whether you agree with it or not, spec sheets are a factor when buying any performance machine (motorcycle, car, etc). Last time I looked, they are still making Corvettes and the speed limit is still 65. The truth is...the sportbike market is NOT going to adapt to HD's Cruiser Strategy. If HD wants Buell to be anything more than a niche bike on the fringe of the Sportbike market they need to get in touch with sport riders. And we all know that HD is VERY slow to change... I will be looking to replace my XB9S next year. Unfortunately, Buell hasn't released anything that is going to bring me into their showroom. But I have my fingers crossed for '08. | ||
| Sportsman |
Random thought here.. Riding a dresser to it's abilities is something only a few can do. Who cares? When I first rode a Buell it blew me away just how fast the thing could stop. I couldn't corner, hadn't learned yet, didn't mean I shouldn't learn, and couldn't have on a dresser. Wanting F1 brakeing ability on your pickup isn't a sin, doesn't mean you need it, but wouldn't it be nice if you did? Drive or ride a 70's anything. Suddenly the higher preformance of a new anything is astonishingly.... SAFER. NO MATTER OF ABILITY. (The exception being hamfisted Harley guys and Buell front brakes..problem.) I think this discussion is broken down to higher HP and top speed, or not. Had a bunch of TR3's and 6's. The only thing they were good at was getting girls to talk to you. But fun to drive none the less and Buell has that fun factor. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Ripe apple in Valencia Orange  | ||
| Rasmonis |
Man, I miss my TR6... I was hit by a TR7 and bought the TR6 with the money from the settlement - how ironic. | ||
| Davegess |
<In all honesty, do you think the latest Buell Model was influenced more by Erik's engineering and racing ability or HD's ultra-conservative approach to development and model variation? To me, it is painfully obvious that HD is calling most of the shots for Buell. That is unfortunate for Buell and Buell enthusiasts. > Nothing could be farther from the truth! | ||
| Tpoppa |
Care to elaborate? | ||
| M1combat |
"To me, it is painfully obvious that HD is calling most of the shots for Buell." HA... LOL  . The internet is great . Way better than TV . | ||
| Jon |
I don't think HD is calling all the shots. I think Willie G put on his creative red beret and said, "watch 'dis!". AAAAAAAUUUUUUGGHHH!!! AAAAAUUUGGGGHHH!!!! Do you know what that was? That was the new dry erase bike screaming for customization. HD isn't calling ALL of the shots...just that last one. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Jon, were you channeling Sam Kinison on that last post? | ||
| Blake |
"To me, it is painfully obvious that HD is calling most of the shots for Buell." You have a wonderful imagination, but are suffering undue pain because of it. Reality is much less painful. | ||
| Blake |
Cityslicker, That is one fine looking XB! Blake like! | ||
| Davegess |
Erik, builds the bike he wants. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Erik, builds the bike he wants.  You just HAD to open a new can.... | ||
| Jscott |
"Erik, builds the bike he wants." Well I guess they will sell at least one "TT" then. Wouldn't a better business model be to build bikes that the public wants?  Alas if Erik is "allowed" to really build the bike he wants, we should all be really excited for 08. RR yes. TT no. (Message edited by JScott on November 21, 2006) (Message edited by JScott on November 21, 2006) | ||
| Trojan |
The 675 is cool but not cutting edge i think. Hmmm, name another 3 cylinder sport bike that is more than a match for the Japanese opposition in the toughest market sector of them all? I would love to see KTM's street bike numbers. So would I. The KTM Power Sports sales revenues for the last 3 financial years in million Euro) are: 2003/4 154.5 2004/5 381.9 2005/6 504.5 Sales of 85cc and over bikes last year were 84,421. This includes street and off road bikes of course. That is some growth. I think KTM must be the closest comparison to Buell as a company, simply because they can both trace their history back to around the same time. Their street bike numbers are growing at an astounding rate. 20 years ago they were a very small 'niche' dirt bike company using other peoples engines in their bikes. Since they decided to get into road and race bikes they have hardly put a foot wrong (MotoGP a notable exception, although the blame for that is equally shared with KR). They decided to get into 125 road racing and are now right at the top, and the same went for 250GP. They have won the Paris-Dakar countless times and god knows how many Enduro and Supermoto championships. Take a look at the official KTM web site and they even outdo Harley on the accessory and apparel front! | ||
| Bomber |
the 675 is, by all reports, a great scoot, but no superbike, to my mind -- still a niche player, although a large and growing niche, for certain -- i've been sorta kinda droolin over the sprint for a while ;-} comparisons between Triumph/KTM and Buell are interesting, certainly, but not quite apples to apples . . . | ||
| Trojan |
comparisons between Triumph/KTM and Buell are interesting, certainly, but not quite apples to apples . . . Not quite apples to apples, but then there is very little else to compare it to. I chose KTM because the growth of the two companies has taken place over a similar time scale. Triumph would also fit the bill on that score, although the company does seem to have a completely different ethos to that of Buell or KTM. | ||
| Bomber |
Troj -- agreed, on all points -- expand you your use of the term "ethos," please . . . .company culture, as revealed by the product offerings, or something else entirely? | ||
| Trojan |
Buell & KTM seem similar in that they want to do things 'their way' and plough their own furrow. Both have built from very small niche companies into what they are today. Both companies are passionate about what they do and that shows through in pretty much everything they do. They are quite obviously the result of visionary engineers. Triumph, on the other hand, is the result of one man with a lot of money coming into the industry from outside. John Bloor made his fortune in the building and property business, and isn't particularly interested in motorcycles other than as a 'product'. Early Triumph models were almost carbon copies of Kawasakis of the time, and although they have developed their own unique 3 cylinder signature models profit comes before passion(although profit is the point of all manufacturers I suppose). Until the new Speed Triple and 675 models arrived the Triumph range was very bland and unexciting to say the least. They lack the charisma and character of the Buell & KTM and that is what I meant by a difference in ethos. | ||
| Bomber |
got it, sir - thanks for the explanation -- I'd agree, though the Triumph engineers seem to have found their own way of doing things -- their fiscal success seems to be paving the way for more engineering excellence, which is great! | ||
| Reepicheep |
Geesh. Who would have thought that a 9sx with a longer travel suspension and 12 motor would something that everyone would feel so inclined to dismiss? Had one of us built it, we would be falling all over each other saying "why doesn't Buell sell something like that"? And are "cheap to replace and customize" body panels any less "gimmicky" then translucid body panels? Is a fake number plate any goofier then a headlight cage on a street bike? I like my virtually non functional headlight grill. It's just fun. I think a TT with a new style 9 motor and my translucid blue would be my perfect bike. That same thing but with a 12 motor but with the stroke of a 9 would be even perfecter. Here is my prediction for 2008. The Uly keeps the current 12 motor. The 9 motor stays unchanged. The XBR12 either gets replaced or augmented by the XB12RR, which gives you an oversquare 1200 or 1350 motor and an honest rear wheel 110 HP, and the new 8 pot caliper, and it looses 20 pounds. |
