| Author | Message | ||
     Sshbsn |
There's always a ton of discontent. Look at Triumph, RIP, who discontinued the TR6 and brought out the TR7 because times demanded change. Anybody who has owned a TR6 knows that it is VERY good at doing what it was designed to do. Unfortunately, what it was designed to do remained a mystery to many people. And so we got the TR7... There's quite a few bikes in production that I don't even know how to classify. "Superbike" is so cliche. Let's put it this way: sport bikes are so advanced now that, all internet bluster aside, I'd say three people on this forum could ride them to their potential. We can walk into a dealer and buy the two-wheeled equivalent of a street legal F1 machine, put a tag on it, and head on down the road. Then ownership somehow confers feelings of ability and suddenly many sport bike riders think they are talented, and in fact entitled to the performance of their new machine. In reality, a truly capable rider may outrun them on an old Nighthawk. In the meantime, like owning an F1 machine, the guy on a new sport bike endures the drawbacks of a track machine and deludes himself into some sort of negotiated satisfaction. Which brings us to all the bitching about the newest Buell release. Some folks want change because, and seemingly only because, there hasn't been ENOUGH change to suit their sensibilities. Some others want change because there are faster bikes available from other manufacturers. And then there's a handful in whom, frankly, I can't discern a motive, except to complain. Yet Firebolts remain one of the purest "cafe" bikes in production. They are good on the street, comfortable, reliable, great mileage, simple maintenance, with performance limits beyond most of their owners. Too slow? Learn to ride better. Still too slow? Get off public roads before you hurt some innocent family, and get yourself a track bike. Firebolts are road bikes, and are VERY good at doing what they are designed to do. Just like a TR6. All the Rossi wannabees should stop and take a quick inventory of their lives: Does anybody pay me to race motorcycles? Is my riding usually done on a racetrack? Do I ride in areas where extremely high speeds do not jeopardize other people, or their children or pets? Buells are not the apple. They are extremely well thought-out and executed motorcycles made by a guy who didn't sit around bitching about what "they" should build. The apple is most everybody's TRUE riding life. Get it? | ||
| Brineusaf |
Some others want change because there are faster bikes available from other manufacturers. WTF?! Did anyone on here buy a Buell thinking it was one of the fastest bikes produced? Half the guys here are going to hump your leg for praising Buell like this.... good on you... now go clean your slacks. | ||
| No_rice |
i am not the best rider, i know that, but on the other hand i have hit the limits if my stock buell. obviously i have modified it and am still happy. i am even still happy with my bone stock one as it brings a smile to my face every time i ride it. take a buell to the dragon and see if you can out perform it. the only reason i could is because i hit the limits of the tire. not the bike i dont think. i plan on hitting it next year with a more race oriented tire and seeing how it goes. if you can honestly tell me your buell quit performing before your a$$ puckered then good on you, and you should up grade to a full race bike and have a go at it. i commend you. i have had a few guns between my eyes and begged them to shoot me. never flinched for a minute doing that. but i did flinch a few times when i slide my front end hanging a hard corner. i was lucky in the fact that my body didnt react to my head and i stayed a steady course through the corner. when you can over rule what your brain thinks is the limit, and your body knows is not. then you should worry about needing more power or speed. | ||
| Diablobrian |
No one needs to, or should, ride right up to their limits on the street. You will constantly be expanding your limits of course due to un-forseen circumstances, and through gaining more trust in the machinery, however it is foolish to be riding the streets without a margin for error built into your pace. From the sv650 on up, and even some bikes even smaller, modern street bikes are capable of far exceeding the legal limitations on speed. If you feel you need more than what's available in these bikes then you definitely need to re-examine how you ride on public roads. Wanting more is a different thing, and we all exceed the legal limits here and there, I'm no angel either. You do need to exercise good judgement though. Many riders have an overinflated opinion of their skills. They've bench raced and lied to their buddies so long they begin to believe their own B.S. When they feel the need to prove that they are as good as they claim is when tragedies happen and the news stories tell the tale of another rider "killed by his motorcycle" it is never a story about a lack of good judgement when one of these people runs their Hayabusa into another vehicle. It's always the over-powered motorcycle, not the under-powered brain of the guy riding without even a motorcycle permit and no helmet. Or when one of these dim bulbs decides to try to pull a wheelie in traffic and t-bones a mini-van. It's no more the fault of the bike than it is the fault of the gun when someone gets shot. The gun does not make the decision to pull its' own trigger and the bike does not make the decisions for the rider. Bottom line? Most modern 600cc sport bikes in stock trim cannot be ridden to their full potential even by some expert class racers. In stock trim. Think about it. These "beginner" bikes have over 100hp across the board in the big 3 now. Not long ago (<10 years) that level of power was the domain of 1100cc bikes no one would have dreamed of calling a beginner bike. Insane isn't it when you think about it? Many new riders don't even want one of those "slow" 150mph 600s because they listen to their buddies spec sheet racing. Back in 87 I punched a salesman in the mouth for selling a friend of mine that had 0 riding experience a gsxr750 that had a whopping 86rwhp...in the magazines  , it was too much bike for a beginner. I still think I was right to do it. Of course I'll probably get dogpiled by guys that disagree, but I'm OK with that. I have the courage to stand by my convictions. Even when they are unpopular. I also know how to admit I'm wrong. That won't be necessary this time  | ||
| Garp |
At this point I think Buell is destined to remain a niche player, and that to me is disappointing. If you are trying to sell bikes from a dusty corner of a dealer network that for the most part doesn't give a shit about your product, then you have to have change to attract customers. For as long as Buell remains part of the HD empire, I think we are destined to see this HD parts bin mentality to the model line, and that is depressing. Great bikes, but piss poor dealers and a confusing array of models all based on variations of the same theme. They may be good bikes, but without change there is little to drive traffic to the showroom. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
+1 Brian. I have learned through racing that riding a bike to "YOUR OWN PERSONAL LIMITS" on the street is the smart way to ride. There aren't too many of us, myself included, that really ride a bike to IT'S limit on the street. We may think we are, but trust me, you're not. Really want to know your bikes limit? Sign up and do a Track Day. Push your bike and yourself hard in an arena made for it. I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that you'll scare yourself before you have that bike screaming for it's life. And you'll see how fast you really are and were your riding flaws are as well. I run in the amateur classes. We run with the experts. There are experts that run the same bike I do (Ducati 750SS). They walk by me like I'm standing still most of the time.I get PO'd thinking "I need a faster bike!" Then I realize that it's ME not the bike. That bike is still capable to run faster times than I am yet. Maybe I'll never reach the bike potential before I reach my own. As far as Buell goes? Yes, the XB line is great. There are guys I race with that run Buells. XB's and tubers. They're all good, fast riders. I just think Buell needs to step it up, so to speak. I don't think anyone is b!tching about the bike in another aspect other than it's no different than want Buell offers now. If they come out with a replica'street version of the XBRR, the touring crowd will be disappointed. Likewise if they come out with a touring bike for the people that want the repli-racer. I think what most can agree on is the need for an updated motor. BUT when Buell enters the racing scene, like in the FX series, you HAVE TO compare the bikes. Hard to race an apple against an orange and expect to come out on top. | ||
| Aldaytona |
I'm glad Buell is a niche player, let Harley-Davidson put everybody on a motorcycle. To me, motorcycles are not a toy or trophy, motorcycling is not a sport or hobby. I bought my 1st one at 14 with a couple of other lads so we had transportation all the time, no school bus with all the dorks, no hitching a ride at someone else's mercy. We wanted transportation 2 years earlier than a car license would provide. Many years later I still have no car and my motorcycles are still transportation. I ride every day, no matter the weather, and if i'm lucky a couple of times a month I get to ride just for the joy of riding. I like Harley-Davidson motorcycles, started riding them in the "cops and criminal" days. I don't care for the weekend "tough guys" who seem to be the core of their sales today. I love Buell motorcycles, one ride and you can tell they were designed by people who understand and cherish all that fundamental joys of motorcycling. I lust after a couple of BMW motorcycles. Let the Japs and Harley-Davidson get all the squids and tough guys, i'm thinking BMC is right on target where they are today. And custom/bastardized bikes, i'm still thinking WTF from the 60s, i don't think i'll ever get that one. | ||
| Ducxl |
So if someone i know is looking at a new Corvette,and also an F-40 Ferarri,i should try and disuade him away from the Ferarri simply based on the inability to "properly utilize" it??  | ||
| Eboos |
I drive my girlfriend's Focus to it's limits. She gets pretty pissed about it. | ||
| Curtyd |
Then there is my friend from awhile ago John, he CAN push the envelope on most bikes, I've seen it. But now when we ride on the street I CAN NOT ride with him, if he isn't going the speed limit, then he is going five or even TEN mph SLOWER. He likes to just putt around whether it's on his Honda Superhawk or his RZ 350, all his bikes are immaculate and when he takes them out he wants to stretch out the time on each ride. Bottom line, bike goes as fast as my right wrist tells it to go. I like sportbikes because they are the safest bikes out there. Low weight, good traction, best brakes and top-flite handling. I am the only thing that makes that unsafe at any speed... (Message edited by CURTYD on November 19, 2006) | ||
| Pwnzor |
I miss my old Triumph Spitfire 1500. The wife has a 2005 Focus and, for the money, it's probably the best all-around car I've driven. My Buell performs beyond my limits, with the exception of flat out straight-line speed. I've owned bikes that are much faster, most recently a Ducati 749S. I dumped that thing because to me it wasn't much fun to ride. Great for the track but not on the road. What I'd like to see from Buell is MORE OPTIONS for the bike I already have, instead of the 50 millionth option for the S model. I'd like a digital dashboard, and slick mirrors, and a few other things. Maybe, just MAYBE if they made some damn ACCESSORIES for the bikes that ALREADY EXIST, and put them IN THE STORES next to the acres of chrome, the Buell dealers might see some repeat business like they do with the Harleys they sell. And by accessories, I DON'T MEAN extra letters on the model name. Friggin alphabet soup makes me wretch. i need a finger transplant i can't seem to type this morning (Message edited by pwnzor on November 19, 2006) | ||
| Mainstreamer |
Ducxl, uhhmm.... two very nice automobiles. Would this friend be buying them for a turn at the track or for posing around town??  Not a bad thing , just wondering? If he were looking for a fun street car with good bang for the buck perhaps a miata would be the ticket.  | ||
| Diablobrian |
Like I said Wanting more and NEEDING more are two different things. Wanting the ferrari for the street is OK, but it is delusional to think anyone needs it for public roads. It is a very good parallel for modern super-bikes. Who needs and R1 or zx10, of gsxr1k for the street? I have heard many people assert that they had "outgrown" their 600 or 750 and needed their liter sport bike that they have NEVER taken to the track. Would you buy the idea that someone needed to get rid of their 'vette and buy a ferrari because they had outgrown the capabilities of the corvette on public roads? assuming they had like wise never been to a track or had a single day of real training beyond his license test (like most sport bike riders)? Not likely. It's usually a case of someone being a legend in their own mind, and a not being able to keep up with their buddies without a huge HP advantage over them. If your friends are running away from you, either learn to ride better/go to school, or better yet; get new (better) friends, not a bike that has a higher top end. | ||
| M2nc |
There is a saying in business, "To stay the same is to fall behind." There is a product life span with a definite peak which is usually very soon after its latest revision introduction. If you look at Buell sales you can see that after every major new production introduction, sales climbed. As time goes by the sales curve goes up as the news of the product gets out. As more time goes by competitors have time to answer the new/revised product and sales peak and then start to decline. To lengthen the product line you can revise and improve similar to Harley with pretty common improvements to their products like the latest 96" motor and 6-speed transmission. Buell hit a real home run with the XB revision when it came out with the Uly last year. The first Usable XB, large enough and comfortable enough to reach a more mainstream rider. Someone that is more interested in a road bike that does not have to be the fastest. Cruisers have a longer lifespan because that is where most Buyers go who are not interested in the fastest bike. Uly is tapping into that market very well because it is Cruiser comfortable and usable but handles better. There are several Uly owners that are coming off of Cruiser and Baggers. But the Lightning and the Firebolt models are in a different market. Their market is a sport market where the proverbial bar is constantly raised and so they are in latter days of their life cycle. With bikes like Triumph's Speed Triple, KTM Super Duke, BMW new R1200R and Japanese competition jumping into the hooligan market which is the strongest in Europe and Japan, Buell is getting passed by. The new BMW R1200R has a 26hp advantage according to the latest spec sheet from Cycleworld to the Lightning (84rwhp vs 110rwhp). The BMW has enough HP to be a competitive with any sport bike and yet has a torque curve we all wish the Buells had. Usable fun power that hits right at the core of the Buell rider. The Speed Triple same thing and even worse it is less expensive. The Triple has been a great success for Triumph. With the new Sprint, the Speed Triple and the awesome Daytona 675, it does not surprise me that Triumph sales are up. They are doing what it takes to be competitive in the sport bike and alternative bike market. So for Buell to keep and woo new riders to their products they need to retain its strengths and at the same time improve the product line. They need to lighten up the smaller XBs and increase HP to be competitive. A Firebolt and Lightning weighing in at an honest 400# wet with 110 rwhp will be competitive in this market. Then you can push the strong points of Buell ownership like usable power, easy of maintenance, superior design for handling and all that. A 2/3rds bike has 2/3rds appeal. If you are going to play in the sport bike market you need acceleration, handling and braking. Buells do not have the nostalgia of Ducatis and Triumph so old Cafe Racer theme will not work. I am not talking Super Bikes here, I am talking direct competitors for the alternative motorcycle owners. Buell needs to do more than just colors and graphics to reverse the slide in US sales. | ||
| Garp |
It is interesting that you mention the Uly being a home run. I keep thinking how odd it is that sales are down 10% in the year the Uly was launched. I can only imagine how bad things would have been without the Uly  | ||
| Mortarmanmike120 |
I love my XB and could spend the rest of my life riding below it's limits. If BMC developed a "superbike", what would happen to the current XB line? Would it be forgotten? Would it become the next tuber? Let the speed freaks chase after the next model, that'll just make parts for my yeller XB cheaper and more available. | ||
| M2nc |
Global sales were the highest they have been, just down in the US and yes just imagine how bad it would have been with out the Uly and all the press Buell got from it. | ||
| Pwnzor |
That is precisely why I sold my Ducati, Brian. Didn't need that bike, and in the end, didn't even want it. | ||
| Rocketman |
Man do I get sick of reading this shit on BadWeB. Some of you have got your Buell hat stuffed so far up your arse you wouldn't know a sportsbike if it ran you over, let alone how to ride one to its limits on the road. Fact is, the bike isn't the limiting factor. The road you're riding is. That's why Sports Bikes sell. And yes I can ride any bike to within an inch of ringing its neck given enough seat time. Anyone that can't do that shouldn't be riding any form of powerful motorcycle. If you aren't capable of riding a powerful bike fast (whether you want to or not) you sure as hell can't ride one slow and you're an accident waiting to happen. Rocket | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Oh God, the self proclaimed "I can beat Rossi given enough time" wanna-be-road racer is chiming in. ANY bike given enough seat time? Sean, sometimes your self gloating makes me wonder how far up your @ss your head actually is. If you were as fast as YOU THINK YOU are, I don't think you'd be wasting your time with all of us slow pokes. You should re read your post and ask yourself who is spewing the shit here. | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
This is so tiring. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Sean, you are re-itterating my point. as far as public roads being a major factor in the limitations of speed in that venue. However, The skill level of the average sport bike rider is appallingly low. In the UK with tiered licensing you have to at least have a fair bit of riding experience before you are allowed to ride a liter bike. Here in the US and in other countries we have 16 year olds that borrow an old 305 twin honda to test with and Daddy buys them a new liter sport bike as their first bike because they want the "best". Or we have people that buy the 600 and claim a couple of months, or even weeks later that the bike is holding them back, that they have "out grown it". I'm not saying that the Buell is the end-all, be-all for everyone. IT ISN'T. No single bike or brand is. Most riders do not have the skill, or dedication to take even the 600s to the extreme limits and keep it there for any length of time. That takes focus, drive, commitment, and training most riders do not have, or are too busy or lazy to commit to. Even the professional racers spend days, practicing before a race and every last second of qualifying is spent trying to put together 1 lap (<4 min) of riding at the machine's extreme limits all the way around a closed course. The experience (30 min-1hr) of qualifying wears out these guys, that train for this year round, physically, mentally and emotionally. Not everyone has what it takes Sean. I'm sorry I have to disagree with you there. Can they continually improve their skills? Yes, of course they can to the extent that their level of commitment and genetics allow. The problem is too many ride way over their heads in an attempt to impress others. Instead of riding their own ride and exploring their limits and expanding them in a responsible fashion. Do I wheelie? occasionally, it's fun. Do I wheelie in heavy interstate traffic to try to impress someone else? no. Do I speed? yes. Do I speed on busy roads and pass on double yellows an apex in the oncoming traffic lane because it would be the correct racing line? No. The differences aren't that subtle. I know my limitations. I'll never be able to be one of the really fast guys (barring a miracle, medical or otherwise) but I can still ride quickly and have fun exploring my limits. In a safe fashion. Do I like, and enjoy my XB9 that has become a high compression 1250? Of course. Do I need it? of course not. A stock bike would still let me enjoy riding. | ||
| Brineusaf |
Some of you have got your Buell hat stuffed so far up your arse you wouldn't know a sportsbike if it ran you over, let alone how to ride one to its limits on the road. +1 I'm not saying that the Buell is the end-all, be-all for everyone. IT ISN'T. No single bike or brand is. Now lets all say that together... | ||
| Socalbueller |
Didn't Buell throw an apple in with a bunch of oranges when they came out with the XBRR for FX? You could say they even painted it orange by putting a full faring on but it was/still an apple. As for people never riding a bike to its limits that argument is retarded. There will always be somebody faster than you no matter how good you are. I'd say as long as you can appreciate and respect the capabilities of a bike go ahead and ride it. I guess I should not ride my Firebolt on the street because I don't come any where close to the performance capabilities of it on the street. I should stick with my Hawk GT since the limits are lower. Hell I shouldn't be on the track with the Bolt either since the bike is a lot faster than I am. Call me crazy but I ride the Bolt more since I don't have to shift as much, shocks are 1000x better, turns much quicker, it's much more precise while cutting through traffic and canyons, the list goes on. People who move up to liter bikes from 600s are probably sick of revving the crap out of them and like the torque a liter bike has in the low and mid range, trading up so they don't have to use the whole power band in a way. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
In the words of Dirty Harry "A man's got to know his limitations" I know mine, I'm getting older, I see my limitations much more clearly these days. There would be no point in me buying a "superbike" I'd never ride it anywhere near it's potential. As for the car analogy, it's much more fun exploring the limits of a Focus, than not being able to reach the limits of the Ferrari. Oh & another few words of wisdom to remember when you go riding, "Do you feel lucky?"  | ||
| Rocketman |
If anyone thinks riding a bike to its limits is about being the fastest you'll never understand. Rocket | ||
| Brineusaf |
I like to hold mine at it's limit, right at the balance point. | ||
| Trojan |
M2nC has hit the nail right on the head. Motorcycling has very little to do with ACTUAL performance, but an awful lot to do with PERCEIVED performance and FASHION. Do you really think that any of the Jap IL4 superbikes sold for road use get used to within 20% of their maximum on the road? The XB platform may well have years left in it and exceed most customers performance limits, but it is no longer seen as a new and cutting edge product. Some of the details such as the steel handlebars with the 1970's BMX lookalike welded in crossbrace just look cheap, even on the new models. The clocks look dated and the see through bodywork is gimmicky, and not something mainstream sportsbike riders will place high on their shopping list. Take a look at the detail finish on the latest crop of super naked bikes and you'll see what I mean. The KTM Superduke must be seen as the benchmark in this market sector, and is the nearest to the Buell in terms of it being a small niche company product. The KTM has Renthal Pro Taper handlebars, Magura Levers, Brembo radial brakes, White Power fully adjustable suspension both ends etc etc etc. The spec list looks like something from an aftermarket catalogue instead of OE equipment, and that is the kind of 'fashion' wish list that buyers are looking for. Now add in superb build quality and real world performance that leaves the XB gasping for breath and you can see why Buell need something new and exciting to reclaim it's 'Sportfighter' title. The KTM even costs the same or even less if you take advantage of dealer discounts available in the ultra competitive UK market (GBP6500 for a new KTM990 vs GBP7000+ for a Buell XB12SS, that will be seen as a set of leathers or new helmet for a lot of people). This isn't change for the sake of it, but change to keep up with a very fast moving market and to stay looking like a modern competitive product. | ||
| Chainsaw |
I just don't know what all this fuss is about. If Buell isn't building the bike you want, buy a Honda. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Anyone read "The Adventures of Walter Mitty" by James Thurber? There was a pretty good movie based on his short story, too - some of you may have seen it. Every motorcycle sold for leisure boils down to a Walter Mitty machine. Doesn't matter if it's a cruiser or a race-replica, a tourer or a vintage Vespa. We buy the machine and wear the costume and we go off into our own space... where ever that may be. All I got to say to anybody is this; don't harsh my buzz... and ta-pocketa, ta-pocketa. |
