| Author | Message | ||
     Ryker77 |
I've been looking at other v-twin bikes. Victory makes some nice looking machines at a better price than HD. I've also read that they provide real customer service. Perhaps they should buy Buell from HD. ??? | ||
| Sik_s |
If they bought Buell then I would probably just buy a special edition Hayden RC-51 than that crap. | ||
| Bake |
Been eyeing up the Victories myself, I like em. | ||
| Smcnamara |
I stopped in at the Victory display at this years motorcycle show and was very impressed by both the display and the knowledge of the people working at the booth. They were by far the best prepared group at the event. I think Victory/Polaris is rapidly becoming a brand to contend with, and is poised to become a major player provided the partnership with KTM goes well. I'm not really that into cruisers, but their motorcycles certainly look nice, and have their own character. Of course, nothing in the product line to compete with Buell, but had the service network for KTM been larger, I might have ended up on the Adventure or SuperMoto... I have no idea how to resolve the issue with many HD dealerships being very poor in their support of Buell, but it's definitely a problem. | ||
| Aldaytona |
I'd rather have a "poor" dealer network than NO dealer network.  | ||
| Smcnamara |
Aldaytona, as the owner of an Aprilia in addition to my Buell, I agree completely. This is one of the reasons I think the Polaris/KTM partnership could be such a big deal. Polaris has an extensive dealer/service network while KTM is very limited. If through the partnership all Polaris shops become KTM (and Victory?) shops as well, that makes ownership of a KTM *much* more interesting. On top of that, all the press from both KTM and Polaris indicate that they really see the benefits of uniting. I would think there would be a huge upside to HD with Buell (namely cutting out a chunk of the sport market for themselves) but I almost get the impression that HD (or at least the dealerships) are trying to kill the brand completely. | ||
| Buellgirlie |
KTM and Polaris were at the table trying to up Polaris' stake in the company up from 25%, to a controlling stake of 75%. that deal fell through within the last month. search news to find it. so....i'm not sure what that really means for the partnership - though the 25% deal is still intact. D | ||
| Marhaba |
"I almost get the impression that HD (or at least the dealerships) are trying to kill the brand completely." Smcnamara, I disagree that HD and the dealerships are purposely trying to kill the brand completely. They instead are, most of the time, just plain ignorant of the fact that there is a demographic that finds Buell appealing. They're just too lazy to take advantage of it. Most Harley guys are on chunky touring bikes or softails, they don't care to learn about something that they have no interest in riding. They aren't trying to kill the Buell brand, they're just being apathetic and letting it go. | ||
| Daves |
What she said | ||
| Smcnamara |
I don't know if you can separate the two positions that easily. If I'm the owner of a dealership, and I don't understand the market for Buell (or worse, don't understand that a market for Buell exists) I don't want to have the machines on my floor tying up space and money that I can use for my core product (HD Cruisers.) If HD encourages dealers to carry Buell (which I don't know if they do,) they might have a hard time saying no, however after bringing some in, if they can say "they just don't sell" then they can conceivably drop the brand without looking like they are acting against HD's wishes. I find it a little bit absurd that guys whose profession is selling motorcycles wouldn't take the time to learn about ALL the products they can offer. That's just poor salesmanship. I had one salesman at a dealership in the area tell me "Nah, I don't really know anything about these bikes. We probably won't carry them anymore. They don't sell." Is that cause or effect? If I walk into a Toyota dealership and ask about a Prius, will I run into a large number of salesmen who say "I don't really know anything about those things. I'm a TUNDRA guy." I know this isn't the case with ALL HD/Buell dealers, but it's been my experience with quite a few. If they don't want to learn about the bikes, they won't sell them. If they don't sell them, they won't want to carry them. If they don't want to carry them, they won't learn about them. Viscious circle.  P.S. Sorry for the hijack. This is supposed to be about Victory Cycles. (Message edited by smcnamara on September 07, 2006) | ||
| Mb182 |
Victory's are great bikes! have have two.. have never left me stranded and other than oil/routine maintenance you don't work on them! They had some issues with the 99-2001 models up the 02's and up are bullet proof! I rode with some guys over the summer that have 140K+ on theirs and they are still running like tops! Dealers are as plentiful as Buell dealers and Polaris has good customer support. MB | ||
| No_rice |
maybe they are a good bike, no experiance really with them so no real opinion on that. i do know that i feel nausious when i see them though. just dont like the styling at all. just MY opinion and thats all... and if you arent interested in something, do you really bother learning much about it at all? i know i dont pay AS much attention as i should to the harley stuff i have to sell (trying to work on that more though), as i do the buell stuff i sell. simply because i have so much more interest in buells. (Message edited by no_rice on September 07, 2006) | ||
| Eboos |
If I walk into a Toyota dealership and ask about a Prius, will I run into a large number of salesmen who say "I don't really know anything about those things. I'm a TUNDRA guy." True true. When I was selling cars, getting master certified was very important to me. I worked in a Ford dealership, but we had a sister dealership that sold Lincolns and Mercurys. I didn't want to just get certified in the Ford line, so I took all of the Lincoln/Mercury tests and learned everything that I could so that I was better prepared to make the sale. In the short time that I was there, I was the go to guy for product knowledge. I just had a hard time playing the numbers. and if you arent interested in something, do you really bother learning much about it at all? i know i dont pay AS much attention as i should to the harley stuff i have to sell, as i do the buell stuff i sell. simply because i have so much more interest in buells. As a salesman, yes! It's kind of like a sport. If you have no interest in your product, you will have a hard time giving the best presentation that you can. Every product has a strangth that could be played up, and a weakness that could be overcome. Not to give you crap personally, but every dealer should be interested in all of the products they sell in order to do them justice and ensure they are getting their rightful market share. P.S. I chose the dealership that I worked for because it was a SVT/Roush dealer. Funny thing is that I never sold a single Mustang, nor any SVT/Roush product. It's a good thing I learned about things that I wasn't interested in. (Message edited by eboos on September 07, 2006) (Message edited by eboos on September 07, 2006) | ||
| Notpurples2 |
there's something about the Victory Motors I dunno I don't like the look of them. Also Harley really needs to embrace Buell more. The "redheaded step-child has done really well, especially since the XB came out. Before I bought my S2 I had never even seen a buell. Then the XB's came out and I've seen plenty of them around, relatively speaking. I could only imagine how well they would do if they actually tried to sell Buells. Harley is really isolating themselves from the younger market. I always feel real out of place in Harley dealerships. I'm usually the only one there under 30, the only one wearing less than 2 articles of HD clothing, and I'm always the only one on a buell. The closest Buell dealership is in Pensacola, FL about an hour away. I'm hoping that when I go to visit this weekend, I will feel more comfortable. | ||
| Notpurples2 |
I just recently moved here to Mobile, AL. Any buellers this way? Anyone have any opinions about the service at Pensacola HD/Buell? | ||
| Glitch |
What configuration is a Victory engine? | ||
| Eboos |
Opening Price Point. Some companies embrase it like Toyota with it's Scion brand. Like the cars or not, they understand who their customers are and what they are looking for. Harley Davidson, for some reason, allowed the Sportsters to become a "girl's or beginner's" bike. That's not the Sportsters that I know of (Evel Knievel, Cafe racers and such), but that's how they've been played out by the public and their dealers. What they are not doing is talking up it's strangths, like the fact that a mildly modded Sportster will put any big twin to shame, and how well it accepts mods to get serious power gains. Now the market for Buell is about as diverse as the HD market. Funny enough is the fact that if a HD sales person did proper probing to fine out what their customer wants, sometimes, they would have come to realize that a Buell better fits the customers needs. I am getting off track a bit. As I was writing this, I was also drinking a 40 of Budweiser. So, to make a long story short, salesmen need to understand their market, and their customers. Not everyone can afford $15,000 for a big twin whatever, and that isn't always what someone is looking for. I was close to making a point, but I guess I missed it. Aah, I'm done. Go ahead and give this post one star. | ||
| Court |
KTM management will likely queer any deal, good or bad, that is dangled before them. | ||
| Whodom |
What configuration is a Victory engine? Glitch, They're air/oil cooled v-twins with single overhead cams and 4 valves per cylinder. The newer generation engines seem to be very good. They are freaking TALL though. The cylinder heads look to be at least twice as tall as the heads on a Buell which makes the overall engine very tall. | ||
| Notpurples2 |
OHC and 4V heads sounds nice for a Buell but not at the cost of making it top heavy. Personally I think my S2 has a lot up top. But I think its more to do with it being so tall and me too short. | ||
| Glitch |
Thanks Hugh!  | ||
| Jon |
Smcnamara, You are dead on. The floor space comment is why Bob Drons of Oakland dropped Buell. I don't understand why Harley is a detriment to Buell and not a strength. | ||
| Glitch |
I don't understand why Harley is a detriment to Buell and not a strength. Strength is what you make it. It's really up to the dealership as to how they decide what a strength is, and what is not. Case in point. SMH-D&Buell. When I first went there I went to find out what I hadn't read about the new (XBs) Buells. Nothing, I was kind of suprised to find I knew more than the sales guy, and I didn't even know about BadWeB yet. To top it off the sales guy raced Buells, none other than Scott Zampach, the Z-Man! He was only worried about the sale. After I bought the bike and found out about BadWeB, I got all excited and went back to SMH-D&Buell to see about their BRAG club. It was non-existant, and Scott didn't want to be bothered with helping start one, and neither was anyone else there. Now fast forward to when Scott and some others were asked to leave, and Cameron Ayers took over as GM. There was also a new sales guy, Pete Anziono, this guy knew little about Buells, but he was learning. I thought "yeah right, this guy owns not a Buell, and rides a Honda Super Hawk to work..." Well, it turned out that Pete really wanted us to start a BRAG club, and Cameron was all for it as well. So, we started the 3% BRAGging Rights Club, and Cameron was doing all he could to help. They went from having one Tuber, and a couple of XBs, to having the "Wall of Buell Stuff" and every Buell Cameron could get his hands on. They also now have, I believe, at least 3 Buell Techs, a very knowledgeable Parts Guy (y'all know him as Smokescreen) and Cameron is still doing way more than any GM I've met. So it's all about how much the dealership want to put into Buell. Cameron has, I think 3 or 4 Pegasus Trophys now, and wants more. | ||
| Jersey_thunder |
VICTORY....TOP NOTCH MACHINE....RIDE ONE YOU WILL BUY ONE!!! JT | ||
| Glitch |
RIDE ONE YOU WILL BUY ONE! If you like feet forward that is... maybe... | ||
| Leftcoastal |
If any of you are really looking for a Victory - some guy in West Hollywood has been trying to sell a black, "2 month old" Hammer with 250 miles. It's down to $17,500 and has been on LA craigslist for a month or 2 with slowly descending price point. Might be a good deal, especially if you like that "feet forward" thing. AL | ||
| Jaimec |
There's no reason an overhead cam Buell would HAVE to be tall. Shorten the stroke, increase the bore and give it a four valve head. The shorter stroke (and shorter cylinder) will make up for the added height of the cams. Increasing the bore will make up for the displacement. Wider bore will allow for four smaller valves instead of two BIG valves. Shorter stroke would allow higher redlines without increasing overall piston speeds. Then we're talking Ducati levels of V-Twin power! | ||
| Whodom |
I think the main reason the heads are so tall on the Victory engine is the 4-valve configuration combined with air cooling. It's been posted several places that it's very difficult to do a 4-valve per cylinder configuration with air cooling. My guess is that Victory has a HUGE amount of cooling fin surface on the head and placed the cam relatively high up to give lots of room for air passages. | ||
| Jackbequick |
"..If you like feet forward that is..." I have to agree with Glitch on that. The forward controls thing is a combination of "I want to look like that cool dude in the advertisement" and more leg comfort fully seated on extended rides. But not having pegs or footboards below your naturally seated position CG is not a good thing. Unless you can easily lighten/lift your weight from the saddle and easily shift it from either one or both pegs/footboards, you are not in a configuration that gives you the best control of the bike, especially at lower speeds. Yeah, I know, but it looks cool... My FXD has standard controls and forward mounted highway pegs and to me that is a good setup for being able to relax your hip, knee, and ankle joints and change positions occasionally. I can shift with my heel from highway pegs and the only loss is a slight delay in getting on the back brake. As soon as I get into more traffic I'm back on the standard controls. On a bigger cruiser and longer trips, maybe I'd want footboards where the standard control pegs are now but I'd still want both those and the highway pegs too. The Victorys *are* nice looking bikes though, a good transition point between sports bikes and bagger level cruisers. It will be a good thing if Victory prospers and survives. Jack | ||
| Jersey_thunder |
cruiser vs cruiser .... HD vs Victorys... Victorys win hands down....time hd gets their sh t together!!!...new AMERICAN MADE..V-TWIN in town i think that hd will step up to the plate..they have NO CHOICE JT |
