| Author | Message | ||
     Typeone |
Glitch, i know, i know. but i guess its rough critique time in here  but if the point is to REALLY top what Buell is creating at the moment.... nothing i've seen posted does better. how could it? they spend hours and hours with teams of people and $$$$$ of money to create what we see. i'm sure you would agree that a few minutes in PS isn't going to top all that work. i was just being honest. besides, no critique of creative work should EVER be taken to heart. it will ruin the creator. its all about evolution of thought. | ||
| Rubberdown |
"BUELL, It's a beautiful thing". Theme for an ad campaign intertwining the beauty of the machine and rider in motion in country road twisties, on the track, and on a picnic with a beautiful woman, on a beautiful sunny hillside. All bikes could be worked into this theme. Color your world Buelltiful. | ||
| Glitch |
no critique of creative work should EVER be taken to heart. True, but you only offer criticism, a true critique would offer an idea or two, not all images above + messages are poor and leave it at that. I'm not taking it to heart, it's just criticism without at least another view is just that, criticism. You'd think someone that i consult with clients to design what they need, all day long, would come up with an idea or two at the very least. Don't get me wrong, I aiin't mad or nothing like that, if you read above, you'd see I'm asking for ideas, not just criticism. I can get criticism anywhere, any time. i'm sure you would agree that a few minutes in PS isn't going to top all that work. No doubt, but I love this stuff, and if you haven't noticed, I'm just having fun, and enjoying picking Reg's brain. By the way, nice website! | ||
| Glitch |
Nice idea Mike! | ||
| Typeone |
Glitch, you're completely in the right, and i apologize for that lame statement. after i re-read it, it was a useless series of words that helps no one. i do like the enthusiasm this thread has generated and the input thats been given. photo, text, thoughts, etc. THAT is good stuff and its definitely part of the process. i guess i was just responding too quickly to what Reg was seeing as 'finished product'. i mistakingly jumped on that bandwagon. i love this stuff too. its all fun to me. i was just a little tweaked after reading Reg's post, but i dont get serious on the interweb either. its all just chat. i'd be more than happy to actually critique stuff if that's what's wanted. by no means am i any sort of 'guru' but i'm always game to give another perspective. (btw, thanks for the props on the site. its kinda old but gives a sense of what i do at the moment) so, anyway... input? i'd love to add some comps but i really need to clean out some time to focus + i've already asked what's wrong with the current ads/campaign? i need to know the problems before i can begin on the 'fixes'. (Message edited by typeone on September 07, 2006) | ||
| Glitch |
Looks like we're in the same boat wrt what needs to be fixed, that's why I asked Reg, "What is the message?" This whole thread has been a fishing expedition for me. I didn'treally follow the origin of this thread, it just seemed like a thread I could get my teeth into. Because just like you, this type of stuff is fun. I've been playing with PS for a few years now with no formal training, so every time I use it, it's a learning experience. Reg said he was looking forward to the responses. I'll bet he gets some good entertainment! i need to know the problems before i can begin on the 'fixes'. Same with me, that's brings us back to... Hey Reg, what's the message? | ||
| 1313 |
Typeone, I believe one of the publications was Battle-2-Win. The other publication would be Thunder Press. I'm thinking most people have heard of it. Even though it originally started out as a California only publication (if memory serves me correct) but I can now pick up a copy at my 'local' H-D/Buell dealer. Not that Reg needs any help with his credibility (even though he never pronouces my name correctly), he knows of what he speaks. IMHO, over the years Buell ads have seemed to have 'missed the mark'. As an example here is a picture from a recent eBay auction:  Some aren't bad, I'll admit. The Good are (some real good, some kinda good): 1. X1 Lightning - Have a Nice Day ad (not as good as the commercial, but what can you really do in a static printed ad?) 2. M2 with extra long sleeves. Kinda preaching to the choir, because not many IL4 riders have experienced real torque. 3. The XB_R ad is good the first time through. For the times you are not thinking about money, sex, or downshifting (or something like that). But again, kinda preaching to the choir. 4. The XB12S ad is not too bad. Can't remember the exact tagline, but something about burning your initials into the road comes to my mind. 5. The XB's 'YOU DON'T RIDE A SPEC SHEET' ad has a good message but may not exactly get the point across to the uninitiated. The Bad are: 1. The X1 Lightning ad with a picture of a squirrel holding it's cheeks. Come on. Squirrel's selling a X1?!?! 2. The S3 ad with a bunch of mounted butterflies. How are images of butterflies going to sell S3's? And Buell thinks there is no market for a sport touring bike? When will someone realize this ad is probably what killed the interest in the 'mainstream' for a Buell sport tourer? (Sorry, let my personal feelings get into this one...) For some real COOL Buell ads you will have to go back quite a few years. I don't remember seeing a S2 ad I didn't like. The single RSS ad had the great tagline 'Engineering That Moves You', but then again kinda preaching to the choir. If history is what you want, just say the word. I have plenty of Buell ads that I can scan and post (but the T-shirt thread was more involved than I originally expected it to be). Now for a refreshing look at Buell ads one must look to European advertising. In the days of the X1, S3 and M2 it was commonplace to see ads of Buell's doing killer wheelies, stoppies, burnouts and the like in European magazines. Stuff that wouldn't pass legal in the US is normal in Europe. I haven't seen much from Europe lately, but I suspect it is up to their normal slightly off the wall standards. Sorry to share so many of my opinions, 1313  | ||
| Barker |
Some advice on advertising. I work in advertising. I shoot/direct/edit TV commercials. These are my 2 cents. Ads are made for alot of reasons, some of witch you dont even know. The only way you can determine how good an ad is if it works. Works = sell product, phones ring, people show up website hits and so on. Not if you liked the AD! Not if it looked good! Not if it has big stars in it! Not if you even want to buy the product! It is about results. A good ad that works does the following. Yeah, you can make ads that dont follow these rules, but your not going to get the same ROI as my formula. These things have made me and my clients lots of money. Or atleast bank rolled my 3 buell a year habit. 1.) MOST IMPORTANT! Has to be different. has to stand out of the crowd. Black sheep. Buell's product(not their advertising) kinda has that going for them. It has to stand out from the noise of all that crap (ads/marketing) we are showered with every day. Everybody else is blah, blah, blah. The ad that works can stand out from the crowd. 2. Be consistent. You cant change thing around to much. Pick something and run with it! If it works. 3. Have a call to action. This can be very subtle. This is a close on the sale. 4. Have a spokesperson/icon in the ad they could be doing anything dose not matter just have them in every thing. This could be Charley the tuna, Captain Kirk, Coke bottle, gnome, gecko, Smiling face, Erik Buell, The trane guy, Sam Adams that kool-aid pitcher/man. I can go on all night. This is just me rambling on, theres alot more to my Ad formulas. These are just some ideas for yall and Erik & Co. P.S. I got the Inside track on a HD Inc. TV Spot that was shot recently involving a alot of white sheep and one black sheep. Guess what thats about. | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Damn... I wish I wasn't leaving; I find this more than interesting. Type... my cred as re creating ads is weak as I have never worked on a national ad campaign. But I'm not exactly wingin' here either; I believe I know what works, and what doesn't. Also--and please don't take this as a reflection on you as I know naught of your biz--that big agencies do the ads is part of the problem with advertising, not the solution. It is not my intent to be "cute" here. That I don't spew forth my idea has nothing to do with anything other than I want to hear answers to "what is the message an ad should convey?" (I've posed this question in several different ways, I know). I don't think the answer particularly arcane. If you'll honestly ask yourself why you respond to a given ad, you'll have the answer (or, at least, my version of the answer). Reading back over what I've written, I can see where I come across as a bit of a know-it-all. In defense of this, my criticism is very tightly focused on Buell and more specifically, its print ads. That some of you have some excellent ideas is obvious. It's too bad no one is listening. 1313... who be you that I screw up your name? BTW: The "Have a nice day" ad ranks as my favorite of those produced for Buell... and it comes quite close to meeting my ad criteria. As to the worst, that would be a toss-up (more a throwup) between the butterflies and the jacket, with the squirrel running a close third. Oh, and let us not forget the meat locker. (BTW2: I sold "Thunder Press" several years ago: it was a very successful venture. I closed down "Battle2win" also several years ago; I took a huge financial hit, and by almost no reckoning was it a success. However, I'm more proud of what we did with what that magazine than anything else I've done in my business life.) | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Barker... Thanx for chiming in. I can't seriously disagree with anything you wrote. The result must be to sell product, and your rules are benchmarks of the business. At the same time, you haven't answered the question as to what the message should be... in any ad. | ||
| Lowflyer |
Ad: Dude, you really need a Buell.  | ||
| Regkittrelle |
I just can't seem to leave this thread alone.... IMO some of the best motorcycle advertising ever done has been by Harley-Davidson and BMW. Ironic that The Mothership has done so poorly with the Buell brand. | ||
| Typeone |
Also--and please don't take this as a reflection on you as I know naught of your biz--that big agencies do the ads is part of the problem with advertising, not the solution. none taken, this could be a very good thread. interesting comments posted for sure. i hear that comment a lot, and i never really understand it. my reason? people flip on the tube, surf the net, buy magazines, buy books and BUY PRODUCT for all the reasons (and more) those agencies want them to. of course not all campaigns or methods or messages work... but the big ones you mention, usually do in one way or another. people cant think for themselves. they are prey. buts its all good. might not change the world but people keep on buy, buy, buying stuff. lotsa stuff. | ||
| Typeone |
IMO some of the best motorcycle advertising ever done has been by Harley-Davidson and BMW. Ironic that The Mothership has done so poorly with the Buell brand. i'm still asking... how? what is so awful about the latest set of Buell efforts? i totally agree that most of those old ads are horrid, but thats old news. i'm focused on the now. i agree that the BMW ads have been excellent. i'd still never buy one of their bikes, but they make me want to ride.} | ||
| Brineusaf |
Brankin - hey I'm going to that Buell Meeting Next weekend. I'm being "chaperoned" (sp?) by some of the most influencial Buellers in Germany. I plan on leaving next friday, staying the night and returning saturday night. I should have lots of pics... thanks for telling me about the event! | ||
| Court |
>>>>It's too bad no one is listening. That's not entirely accurate. Change is in the wind. >>>almost no reckoning was it a success. I'd say the single place it may have lacked being an overwhelming success was financially. This was due in no part to lack of keen management, just a simple function of the numbers in the target population. It was one of the nicest, in terms of "hold satisfaction" magazines I've ever seen. Physically, Battle 2Win was the pinnacality of mazinazation. In terms of content, I still miss (with the possible exception of Acoustic Guitar) having a magazine that I literally read cover to cover the day it arrives in the mail. Reg has a keen sense (go ahead an gloat, it's not like it's not warranted) of combining content (the art) and physical presentation (the frame) that makes the magazine very accessible. In addition, it was fun, while all the time remaining unwavering Buell nuts, to "call'em like we saw them". I was on a phone conference yesterday concerning Buell dealers and carpe'd the diem to read a quote from some of my 1997 words and point out that, with regard to the dealer situation, not one thing, other than the rotating names of the "great dealers, has changed. At the time, this sent some HD folks ballistic. Me? I miss Battle 2Win and would love to write again. . . . even if Reg writes the advertisements. I hace a clear image in my head of Reg holding his hands to his bearded face, eyes wide open with the caption "Ohhhhh No"  | ||
| Jaimec |
Personally, I think "Fuell" should be made over in the image of "Battle2Win." That flimsy little brochure they pass off as a magazine is sad compared to the thick, glossy magazine I get every month from the BMW Motorcycle Owners of America... | ||
| CJXB |
make them want, even if they dont need.." Not to stray off the Buell topic, but what about those stupid "herpes" adds !!?? I have caught myself watching the ad for that and thinking folks with herpes look like their lives are wonderful, packed full of fun and those girls always have a handsome guy to boot !! The commercial makes their life seem better than my life and I don't even have herpes !? Reading back over what I've written, I can see where I come across as a bit of a know-it-all. Sometimes you certainly do !! | ||
| Glitch |
That flimsy little brochure they pass off as a magazine... Sad, but very true. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Here's my idea for an ad, if anyone makes it, send me a slice of the pie. The scene, Longshot of a twisty road, zoom in to a guy in a bike jacket & blindfold sitting on a camp stool at the edge of the road with his back towards a great view with more twisties visible below. We hear the sound of a rice rocket wailing by behind the camera, no reaction on the guys face, then another, then a beemer, still no reaction, then a nice loud Buell go's honking by & the guy breaks out into a huge grin. No speech, just sounds, then cut to a Buell logo full screen. END. | ||
| Bomber |
old saw regarding ads -- "The Truth will not stick to glossy paper" appropot of absolutely nuthing -- just that I'd share ;-} break break Reg wrote "IMO some of the best motorcycle advertising ever done has been by Harley-Davidson and BMW. Ironic that The Mothership has done so poorly with the Buell brand." Agreed entirely -- BMW bike ads seldom seem to focus on the bike, but, rather, on the bike owner/operator having an adventure, enjoying themselves -- the ads say, to me, if I buy one of these bikes, I'll be a square jawed dude on a transcontinental journey through all kinds a weather and be generating stories to tell my budies -- HD ads seem to be (in my opinion, which is worth about what y'all have paid for it) all about re-inforcing the brand (it doesn't hurt that many HD owners spend a great deal of time doing the same thing -- Motorcycle = HD in many parts of the country) Buell ads have mostly spoken to the already converted -- which is nice, certainly -- always good to feel part of a group that's smart enough to "get" the in-joke -- they don't seem to be successful at reaching heathens and then converting them. I would guess that is is an example of the Heavies in Milwaukee not quite getting Buell -- and, therefor, neither does the agency that runs the campaign -- other examples of this are 70 dollar grips and chrome heel guards -- while I can most definately NOT create an an, nor a campaign, I have been on the seidlines of enough of these efforts to have what I believe to be a rational suggestion. Don't have HD's ad department/agencies do the work -- go outside completely and find some small agency, or hire a chief loon and give him/her enough money to hire a small staff of loons -- define your mission (which HD is still working on, clearly), then turn the loons loose -- if insanity is defined as repeating your past actions and expecting a differnet outcome . . . . (Message edited by bomber on September 08, 2006) | ||
| Phatkidwit1eye |
Buell--Apply directly to the forehead Buell--Apply directly to the forehead Buell--Apply directly to the forehead | ||
| Jlnance |
IMO some of the best motorcycle advertising ever done has been by Harley-Davidson and BMW. Ironic that The Mothership has done so poorly with the Buell brand. Perhaps not so Ironic. HD has very successfully managed their image, and as a result they have the power to make you cool. People believe, probably with some justification, that having a HD motorcycle will get you laid. Thats very valuable to the company, and their ads reinforce that image. Have you seen the one where guys are taking girls home from dates, and only the guy on the HD gets invited in? Buells are the antethesis of that. The idea there is you're going to think about what you like about riding motorcycles, prioritize these things, and realize that Buell matches up well against the things at the top of the list. Assuming the list doesn't include impressing chicks or drag racing. I think it would take a very different set of skills to write those ads. I also think it means that HD will always be much larger than Buell.  | ||
| Barker |
Reg, I was just offering some advice. I make TV spots for work. I ride Buells to get away from work. Right now Im not sure I want to mix the two. But if I did, I could make a kick @$$ TV spot for buell. I would make them a spot for free if they would supply me with a few bikes to use, and some badwebbers would pilot them. I got a bunch of Pro Film/video/editing gear just laying around. But to make an ad that would "work" (see my old post) I would have to meet with BMC and ask them a few questions. I have to get some important information from my clients before I create the ad. | ||
| Ceejay |
With the exception of H-D, whose ads appear just about everywhere, it seems as if motorcycling advertisement is a bit like ciggarettes. Not allowed to attract new customers just try to get people to your brand from another companies brand. Why? What I'm getting at is that the ads only appear in motorags, aren't the majority of these folks already owners??? | ||
| M1combat |
I'm constantly amazed at the LINE of people that tend to show up in certain situations to ask about my 12R. People from all walks of life (fewer young people). They ask all sorts of questions while walking around it looking at stuff and pointing things out. They always have a curious expression. Two of them so far have been around me just enough that they've gone out and bought XB's. They both love them. How does one harness that situation and put it into a commercial? | ||
| CJXB |
Phatkid, that's just effing hilarious !!  | ||
| Jima4media |
I once watched a TV commercial being filmed on the USS Hornet in Alameda, California. It was on spec and the producer would only get paid if Buell bought it. They didn't buy it. It was a great ad. Had some humor, it was different, but mostly it was a Buell X-1 doing what we all wanted to do. A big smokey burn-out donut. Like the Happy Face ones. It was Cory Call doing the riding, but you never knew that, you only imagined yourself under that dark visor. Brilliant. | ||
| Blublak |
Barker.. If you ever need a 'still image' guy.. Drop me a line..  I've got an idea or two as well.. But rather then put them here in words, I'd love to try and do the image(s).. I just don't have the time or money to make it happen..  Yet... Hmmmm.. Maybe we could just present a united front to the folks in East Troy.. 'Hire' us.. BadWeb and we'll do your next couple of ads. Between the group of us, we have quite a pool of talent we could cull for ALL kinds of wild/interesting/eye catching/funny/off the wall/(insert adjective here) type ads. Both moving and still..  | ||
| Jayvee |
Back in the 80's I had a collection of Marlboro ads that i'd saved for whatever reason, sort of a gallery of them. Every single one had ONLY a picture of a cowboy on or around a horse, and just one word at the bottom, Marlboro. If you didn't know what it was, you would think it was a brand of Hat, or riding tack, or blue jeans. There wasn't even a cigarette in all of them, only a few. Nowadays, it seems like it's all about scantily-clad women. (No objection here!) Seems the first principle of the ad is that it must be "arousing enough" to do either one of two things: Arresting enough for you to notice/read/peruse the ad; OR an image that is so evocative that the logo/brand name sticks in you head, even if it's only subconsciously. |
