| Author | Message | ||
     Captpete |
R/T I find it hard to believe that someone at the the level of board room exec I am thinking about has time to play motorcycle. If you are I would love to hear your view of the world over a beer sometime. I wouldn't hold my breath. I doubt a man as busy as that would give up his motorycle play time. | ||
| Kdan |
I agree with SkyGuy. I also think most people are a$$holes, but I give everyone a chance to prove they are not. Anyone driving a Suburban, Tahoe, Expedition, H2 or Avalanche should have to pay double for their gas. I would hazard a guess that less than 10% of those vehicles on the road are actually required by the people who drive them. If you happen to drive one, I would love to hear your explanation too, but chances are, I'll just think you're another poser, keep up with the Jonses, a$$hole. As for SG's 12MPH Pinzgauer, which is a very cool vehicle by the way, it is also almost 40 years old and still running. Which just goes to prove his conservationistic approach. How many of the aforementioned vehicles are over 10 years old? Most people I know who drive these penile compensators have a new one every 3-4 years. Which is an incredible burden on resources. | ||
| Ryker77 |
US average fleet MPG is unchanged in over 20 years. Thats right 20 years ago the average mpg is the same then as now. 20 years of improvements in oil, tires, aerodymanics, etc etc. Have netted ZERO. Don't just bash SUVs. Many luxury cars and most all sport cars get less than 25mpg. Bash the two party politcal system. They BOTH have there hands full of oil and car companies campaign money. Other wise they WOULD ALLOW higher MPG cars to be sold in America. Such as the kind sold in EU. The VW Lupo TDI gets over 60mpg but is not allowed to be sold --- But I can go buy a Benz ML55 worlds fastes SUV ---- --- Whats sucks is my wife fell for the SUV crap. Sold her 45mpg Jetta (for the same price we paid for it three years ago) for a 18mpg luxury SUV. 250% increase in fuel bills | ||
| Captpete |
Anyone driving a Suburban, Tahoe, Expedition, H2 or Avalanche should have to pay double for their gas. Done! | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Kdan, You, sir, cut a wide path. G2 | ||
| Ryker77 |
"There are reportedly over 100 cars for sale in America that get 30 MPG on the highway EPA test. No shortage of transportation that is fuel efficient. No conspiracy to keep this info from the buyer public, it is all there. " Not totaly true. There are not many quality cars, not many luxury cars, not many SUVs that get good MPGs. Proven by the fact the VW cars with the TDI engine (40+mpg) are selling for near the same price used as they sodl for 1-2 years ago. In the cali area where the smart ones banned the selling of new TDI cars (40+mpg) older TDI's are on autotrader for the same price or more then when brand new! Which is why my old 2003 Jetta sodl for the same price I paid for it 2.5 years ago! SUPPLY and DEMAND. Took less than 6 days to sell the car. So I could have made a profit on a car. WOW. Even the tires were wore out! There are much more than 100 cars that are PREVENTED from getting sold in America. Be it EPA or saftey rules. Right now I would be driving a VW Lupo at 60+mpg. | ||
| Ryker77 |
E85 is the biggest scam on American soil-- E85 is primarly produced by one company. the same company has its hand into politics. Second e85 causes a LOSS in MPG by about 25%. http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/07/pubcit_ethanol.html Ethanol producers receive $2 billion in subsidies from taxpayers, with Archer Daniels Midland ADM getting the lion's share. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, the company's political action committee and employees have made more than $2.1 million in federal campaign contributions since 2001, with 63 percent of that total going to Republican candidates. ADM is attempting to influence public policy. Influence-peddling on Capitol Hill is primarily done through two means: campaign contributions and lobbying. It is very common -- and more effective -- for corporate interests that are attempting to persuade lawmakers to vote for pro-business policies to employ both methods simultaneously. | ||
| Bomber |
wow -- more internet wisdom -- it, like rust, never sleeps, it would seem ;-} so, everyone is assumed to be an asshat until they proove otherwise -- most are held in contempt -- blame to 2-party system for someone's choice to buy an SUV I had no idea I was in the presence of such greatness . . . . . and all this desire for the government to control things from folks who proudly state they avoid paying taxes and who praise personal responsibility . . . . in a civics class, long ago and far away, during a previous oil shortage (they happen on average every 11 years, btw, through no effort of the oil industry) -- the class was discussing how good people could make bad choices (at the macro level in their work -- oil execs were being discussed at the time), and the professor pointed out that the person making the decision was likely NOT trying to screw anyone, pollute the atmosphere, harm unborn infants, or otherwise mess with the balance of the cosmos -- he was simply doing the best he knew how for himself and those he cared about just like all of us, I'm thinkin grat crop of victems we got here in the US, ain't it? ah well, as per usual, no one's points of view will alter anyone else's point of view in this "debate" (including mine). it's the internet, after all with fondness and respect for all | ||
| Ryker77 |
so, everyone is assumed to be an asshat until they proove otherwise -- most are held in contempt -- blame to 2-party system for someone's choice to buy an SUV They could have allowed MB, BMW, etc etc to sell their diesel powered SUVs in America. But no. They could have imposed a gas guzzler tax. But no. They could have created less urban sprawl. But no. They could have created better mass transit. But no. What they did do was keep building more and more roads. Kept fuel prices doable. And allowed cars to be sold and bought that do not get good enough MPG. Yes its peoples choice to buy SUV's and other types of gas guzzlers. But the government controls most other aspects of my life why not limit the number of gas guzzlers on the road to only those who need them. Not just SUV. Any car that gets less than 22mpg. | ||
| Road_thing |
Skyguy, come on down to Texas, we'll talk, we'll ride, and the beer's on me! I've got time, I'm kinda semi-retired... Hell, I'll take you to lunch at the Petroleum Club and you can tell all the fat cat oil men what a low opinion you have of them. But once you've met them, I think you'll find that they're good people, just like the proles. Anyway, I'm done with that argument. I simply object to your generalizations about what people drive, and why, and about the integrity of my peer group. You're entitled to your opinions. rt | ||
| CJXB |
Well said RT !!  U too bomber !! | ||
| Road_thing |
Thank you and good morning, beautiful! rt Bomber, you know I'm talkin' to CJ, right? | ||
| Bomber |
Thang -- you betcha I did -- no one's call me beautiful since acid became illegal . . . even then, I'm not sure they weren't talking to themselves | ||
| Brucelee |
"Whats sucks is my wife fell for the SUV crap. Sold her 45mpg Jetta (for the same price we paid for it three years ago) for a 18mpg luxury SUV. 250% increase in fuel bills" So, you are blaming the two political parties for your wife's choices. When she doesn't want to have sex, are the pols to blame also? Hmmmm, interesting logic there. | ||
| Brucelee |
"Not totaly true. There are not many quality cars, not many luxury cars, not many SUVs that get good MPGs. Proven by the fact the VW cars with the TDI engine (40+mpg) are selling for near the same price used as they sodl for 1-2 years ago. In the cali area where the smart ones banned the selling of new TDI cars (40+mpg) older TDI's are on autotrader for the same price or more then when brand n" All this suggests is that the government has decided that MPG will be trumped by the suppossed problems with diesel emissions. Having said that, there are tons and tons of quality vehicles that get near or over 30 MPG on the highway EPA test. Folks are free to buy them but don't. I see no problem here. | ||
| Brucelee |
Ryker, your logic is something like the following: "They" (the government) is responsible for the way it is now. You don't like the way it is now. They (the government", should have MORE power to make MORE changes in the way we live and drive, ie to make us MORE like the Europeon model. Gas in Europe costs ?????????? Your turn! | ||
| Brucelee |
Bomber, You are a wise man. Beer is on me! | ||
| Bomber |
BL -- only the first one, sir . . . . . ;-} | ||
| Brucelee |
As I said above, I have some very fuel efficient vehicles. This does not make me smart nor virtuous. I do it to save money and because I like the vehicles. I think that is called self interest. Now, how can I dump on my neighbor's SUV. They are operating from the same modality. BTW-this issue of suburban sprawl makes me laugh. I grew up in a city ghetto. If the government wants to force me to move back to the city, they better have many many troops to do the moving. I designed my entire life to escape that rat hole. Not going back now to satisfy someone elses version of the way it ought to be. Freedom, try some. | ||
| CJXB |
Thanks RT !! And thanks for clearing that up, I did think you were talking to bomber !!  If no one's called you beautiful bomber, then they haven't yet had enough beer !! | ||
| Bomber |
. . . . . think I'm gonna have to ponder this for a bit, Ceej . . . . . I'll get back to you, though, never fear ;-} | ||
| Bcordb3 |
Gas in Europe costs ?????????? The gas prices are about 4 times more expensive than it is in the US, The European cars about 2 times (maybe) the gas mileage. The cost per mile driven is about the same. I can't argue the use of fossil fuel. That would be not smart. Can't argue the use of gas guzzlers, that's personal choice. Not every European car gets good numbers with fuel mileage. The autobahn is full of them. | ||
| Skyguy |
RT, Careful there i am the kind of guy that will look you up sometime and do just that. It would be fascinating to sit on the other side of the fence and ask questions. I really don't believe in big conspiracies. I also do not think that the markets are manipulated by anyone other than a very very few at very very high places (starting with OPEC). I grew up a tree hugging liberal and have grown into a conservationist regarding the enviroment. A conservative regarding crime and welfare. And a radical regarding our current goverment. Based on that I should avoid generalizations as I am sure that I fit into no "groups". I think if a person is a Democrat, a Republican, a green or independent that it is likely they have narrowed their ability to look openly at issues. I base my decisions on issues not who presents them. I know that this is a bit off the topic but hey I gotta have some fun since I can't ride for another couple of days (: | ||
| Daves |
I love my Expedition I do not like small cars I already pay extra to drive my SUV,it only gets 12 MPG! I can't pull a trailer with a small car I can't haul my hunting dogs with a small car Most small cars don't have 4 wheel drive, the ones that do would never go in the places I take my SUV and come back out. I also have a 92 Dodge 4x4 that I use for the heavy duty hunting. It gets about 11 MPG. It does many of the things my Expedition does that a small car can't. So, when they develop a small car that isn't small, so I can haul things/people/dogs with it and it will tow up to a 22 foot trailer full of bikes maybe I'll buy one. Til then I will drive my trucks and SUVs and pay the extra in fuel costs. Is it more ECO friendly to waste the resources for me to have the trucks I need and a small car to drive? Or just drive the ones I already have? | ||
| Captpete |
It's all Ayn Rand's fault. | ||
| Sandblast |
Thats a good question Dave, I guess it depends on the miles you drive a year??? I am lucky I guess that a small truck covers my needs. If it did'nt, I'd have a big one too. | ||
| Swampy |
Daves?.....hunting dogs? Some of the best partridge hunting I have ever seen is in Iron Mountain. | ||
| Oldog |
 Anyone driving a Suburban, Tahoe, Expedition, H2 or Avalanche should have to pay double for their gas. I ride my @#$%@#$% bike 5 days 40 mi a day, and use the truck for hauling my tools gear etc. Saving my self 140+ dollars a month I paid for my truck out right just before gas prices went stupid, so its ok to punish me for not going into debit for a new(er) HEV WTF! perhaps they, The well meaning poorly informed distant government officials that I sooooo mistrust will save me from my self, I can see it now .... I can sit around in my mauve chairman mau suit singing Oh I wish I were an Oscarmeyer weiner, and weave baskets on my off time, Motorcycles, hunting fishing music automobiles and fun are unproductive and dangerous eat sleep and work. We know whats best for you yeah right .... [ rant off ]} TRY N.KOREA | ||
| Daves |
Yes, Swampy, I have 3 Labs. Buck is too old to hunt but I have Jake and Barney. Neither are great hunting dogs, Barney has only been out a couple times since we got him last year. I plan to get them out chasing pheasants this year, season opens Oct 30th. I do more bowhunting for deer these days but used to hunt pheasants all over Iowa. | ||
| Diablobrian |
If they were to double the price of gas for SUVs and trucks, they should also double it for limos, and luxury cars, you know, the kind the politicians drive. Since those are either close to, or as inefficient as the SUVs. I used to have a Suburban, but I have 3 kids, and a trailer I was hauling a lot then. I've replaced it with a Caprice, and now pull trailers with my 1977 RV that gets the same mileage as the Suburban. |
