| Author | Message | ||
     Escham |
Ok her's the latest: I took the bike in Wednesday to show the store manger the pictures and because it had some hesitation at constant RPM, I noticed that it wanted to skip second gear as I geared down sometimes, and there is some oil seeping out of the oil line at the oil cooler. He was shocked by the picture and apologized. He told me originally that he supervised the tear down and they didn't find anything wrong. After looking at the picture he said, "Well, I told you we couldn't find anything because that was what the tech told me.". He then asked for a copy of the picture so he could confront the tech about it. They told me the hesitation was a common problem and that they just needed to hook it up to the computer and reset the tps and adjust the timing. They did not know what to think of the gear slipping to second without looking at it again, but they would look at it when they replace the primary bolts and the chipped bolt. I made an appointment for today for the hesitation and to look at the seeping closer. They hooked it up and made the adjustments. Also, determined that they were just going to replace the oil lines and whatever else was associated at the coupling of the oil cooler. They wanted me to bring it back in when the parts arrived and get it finished. He also mentioned that they were going to take it to their sister store and let their "master" tech do the work. So I left. I took it out for a ride, looking for the hesitation (which it still had, only to a lesser degree) and it ran ok. I was exiting the highway and as I was approaching the start of the curve in the exit ramp I geared down from third to second as I started to break. When I released the clutch, it threw me forward a little. It had skipped second and gone straight to first. The force threw me forward and straightened me out. I got back and pulled the clutch in, but I had regained momentum and I ended up unable to get it back into the turn and ended up laying it down. Bike slid one way and I threw myself away from it. I Suffered minimal injury, but the right side of the bike is banged up and it dented the frame right where the pucks would have been if they would have ordered the right ones. I was able to get it up and it rode ok. I drove it to the dealership. The Store MAnager took it for a ride and of course could not simulate the missing of second gear. He is going to ride it some tomorrow and see if he can get it to happen and they drove me home. I am without words. Escham | ||
| Curtyd |
"I am without words." You're not the only one. Only old-time HD guys "lay bikes down", the rest of us crash them because we usually screwed up somehow. Good Luck getting much more out of them. I doubt you'll ever get them to take back a crashed bike and why should they? I reread your posts and it's all about what "they" did to you, like they ordered the wrong pucks so that when you crashed it THAT'S why the frame got damaged. The oil leaked and THEIR mistake almost killed you. The bike missed a shift and that's why you crashed it. GET REAL. I am sorry but I just don't buy it. It sounds like inexperienced riding, maintenance and knowledge skills to me. I crashed a bunch of times in the beginning of my career. But I am a skeptic and your lawyer is probably hoping for a better jury pool. I never make it past the jury assembly room, anyhow. It sounds like now you'll be going after the insurance co.'s to give you a new bike and some cash. | ||
| Sanchez |
I really don't think it's possible for the transmission to skip from 3rd to 1st ... perhaps someone who's had their transmission out can comment? The shifter linkage inside the primary case can only rotate the shift drum so far each time you push it. There's also a detent plate on the end of the drum that keeps it lined up and holds it in place. Even if the detent plate somehow came off (which shouldn't happen on an 03+), your worst case scenario is a sloppy shift that leaves you between gears in a false neutral. Maybe you were in 2nd rather than 3rd when you downshifted and didn't realize it? I've done that plenty of times. This may not be what you want to hear, but downshifting into an unexpected gear really shouldn't cause an accident. It sounds to me like you didn't blip the throttle before letting out the clutch, you let the clutch out too quickly, or maybe you were just shifting too late before entering the corner. There are only two types of riders: those who have dropped a bike and those who will. Most of us are in the former category.  When it happens, you just have to pick your bike up, get back on it, and learn from the experience. | ||
| Whodom |
Escham, Man, sorry to hear about your continued problems. OTOH, in line with what Sanchez said above, you seemed far more upset about your near-crash early in this saga than you did about your actual crash that you related above. Whatever the reason for the crash, you weren't hurt, and the bike wasn't seriously damaged. You now officially have your first crash out of the way and you don't sound like you're ready to give up riding. I take that as a very positive sign in this story. Now, hopefully your dealer will get your bike properly repaired and you can get back to riding and not worrying about your bike. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Eric, Are you using the throttle to bring the engine speed up momentarily when you down shift? Basically, using throttle blips to match the gear speeds in the transmission? That makes for more positive and much smoother downshifts. I ask that because I don't know how long you've been riding. I have seen newer riders just close the throttle as they pulled the clutch lever in, then downshift and let the clutch lever out. That will typically result in a rough transition to the next gear, a noisy shift, and occasionally missing a gear or finding a false neutral. Also, the shift lever needs a quick, positive stroke, all the way to the stop on each up or down shift. Light, slow, or inconsistent movements can affect shifting. H-D transmissions, with their straight cut gears and sliding shifting dogs, really seem to thrive on throttle blips when down shifting. Jack | ||
| Oldog |
but I had regained momentum and I ended up unable to get it back into the turn Assuming that you had not opened the throttle how did you "re gain momentum?" You pulled in the clutch were out of shape, to far forward, moved back, and were up right rapidly approaching the edge of the road. my .02$ this ends as paniced and layed it down, understandable, new rider mistake, I'm sorry to hear that you fell and I am glad that you are relativly unhurt. I think that Sanchez summed it up best. oh yeah one last suggestion }slow down. | ||
| Skyguy |
Escham, Did you take a MSF course before crashing? Not trying to be nasty here but it sounds like you are in over your head. I have had bike do many strange things over the years going form thrid to first is not one of those things................... Glad you were not hurt. | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
dude...that sucks what happened to your bike... i'm speachless on all the drama you have been through....take the course and continue with riding, we all drop our bikes at some point. it;s something to do with that gravity thingy.. ridding is one of the best things one can do for themselves..huge stress reliefe for me...i think i would be in mental hospital if i could not ride. brush yourself off and get back on that thing..slow down some and take it EASY the first few months..learn the bike and slowly progress. don't rush it. you have your entire life to get better, it will come! glad you did not get hurt..good luck! | ||
| Buckstar |
I'm not usually negative, but... This is BS, I believe that you are not happy your getting what you feel is correct compensation, a new 07 like you posted earlier. You went in and set it up, your "situation" with the missing of gears and no frame pucks, and then wrecked your bike to prove your point. The reason I even post this is that one way or another you are going to get compensated and if it is through anyones insurance we all end up paying for it in the end and that just pisses me off. Reading through your posts this just seems apparent to me. My 2 cents. | ||
| Jandj_davis |
I'm going to have to call BS too, only on the fact that now you have transmission problems. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY a zero momentum fall (the reason for this whole saga) can lengthen the shifter linkage, bend some shift dogs (or forks, I always confuse them) and destroy your transmission. It just can't happen. Sorry man, but if I were the dealership you are dealing with I would refuse to service your bike. These mechanical problems that came up from cosmetic blemishes are just BS, a new rider with purchaser's regret. I'm glad you weren't injured in your crash, but maybe it is time to accept your losses, sell the bike to someone looking for a track bike, and call it a day. | ||
| Nutsosane |
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| Curtyd |
Statements made here can be "admissions" of a party/opponent in a subsequent legal proceeding and admissible in that later court proceeding. If you haven't gotten legal advice yet I suggest you do so now. Anyone else think maybe this bike fell out of the back of a pick-up? Just the casual way he brushes off his later "crash" after being so irate at his near miss before. Also would need to be reported to collect insurance in most jurisdictions, he is walking on thin ice now My advice is the same as most, he'll NEVER get them to take back the bike and any money he thinks he will make in this deal isn't worth the exposure he is placing himself in with these inconsistent stories. But people turn down advice from those with more experience in these matters every day. It's their life. | ||
| Escham |
All I can say is if ignorance is bliss, most of you guys are as happy as a dog eating peanut butter. I am not going to even acknowledge anyone who would claim I would intentionally drop/wreck/lay down my bike. Personally I would like to meet some of you keyboard queens to discuss it in person, you make me sick. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Don't let 'em get to you Escham. People will say what they want, you know what's happening with you and that's good enough. I don't know you, and I'm willing to take what you say at face value because I have no evidence to the contrary. I revealed a small portion of my ongoing legal saga in another thread and I got jumped on and convicted and everything else just for expressing an opinion. Here you're dealing in facts and still getting jumped on. I hope it works out, all in your favor. As everyone should also be hoping, since we're all here to help each other right? RIGHT? Sometimes I wonder. | ||
| Diablobrian |
I don't know what I can do to help Eric, but I really wish this had never happened. Let me know if I can lend a hand. | ||
| Skyguy |
Kind of harsh accusing him of fraud. Did it occur to anyone else that maybe he is just a noob rider? We were all noobs once upon a time. | ||
| Twig |
No, not harsh. Just plain ole ignorance and stupidity from just a few badwebers point of view. How quickly we forget the first time we got on a bike. Dirt or street. Let me make a point here. Anyone on the Badwebb here that actually ever witness'd their brand new xb tumble over while in for warranty service? What would you have done? | ||
| Twig |
No, not harsh. Just plain ole ignorance and stupidity from just a few badwebers point of view. How quickly we forget the first time we got on a bike. Dirt or street. Let me make a point here. Anyone on the Badwebb here that actually ever witness'd their brand new xb tumble over while in for warranty service? What would you have done? | ||
| Curtyd |
Nothing wrong with being a NOOB rider, I said in my post I crashed early on several times. What is consistent is the "blame-game" and the desire for a new bike. People let their poor judgment get the best of them all the time, never met anyone who didn't. I repeat, the frame is bent because he crashed it, nothing else. he crashed it because he didn't know how to ride if that is how it happened. If he didn't like the service he could have taken it somewhere else or done like the rest of us "keyboard queens" do, bought a service manual and pulled out the tools and just fixed it, it ain't "nuclear physics". It sounds like the dealer just tipped it over in the parking lot to begin with, is that right? Oh well, they aren't going to do a lot more for him now without being paid, so he's back to fix it himself, let them continue wrenching on it or find another mechanic. How do you drop a bike at speed without at least breaking off the shift levers, clutch or brake levers, mirrors, etc.? I never have. Better get that part of the story straight. (Message edited by CURTYD on July 22, 2006) | ||
| Curtyd |
"Anyone on the Badweb here that actually ever witness'd their brand new xb tumble over while in for warranty service? What would you have done?" I would have left with a free service, a new helmet and maybe a nice leather jacket, slapped everyone on the back, bought them a six pack or a dozen donuts, made a bunch of new friends and a mechanic that would wrench on the bike with "LOVE" the next time around because I was "soooo" understanding about it, but heck that's just hindsight now and that's always 20/20... | ||
| Oldog |
Sorry that you were offended, I hope not by me, 30 years of riding, my self, and just for shIts and grins I pulled in the clutch at 45 mph on a down hill to see if the bike would accell, no dice. no "building momentum" I am not offering any LEGAL advice here just an opinion from a seasoned rider's perspective. as were some of the others, you were startled got out of shape and panicked, its understandable, as is your frustration with dealer issues. A lot of us have been there. heres how I handle dealer service problems. politely, if you screw it up once we talk the next time I fix it if I can, and you don't do that for me again. My locals they do not do regular services any more, and have sold me the last tire I will buy there. one more 2 week part that should be on the shelf and Clown or Daves have a new customer problem solved. your mishap will cause your and everyone elses insurance to go up this is fact as you have become another statistic. My 02$ on legal action. Any time Lawyers get involved, both parties loose. The truth is not always pleasant it is the always the truth Stay well I hope that you can resolve your issue. | ||
| Humblebueller |
"Anyone on the Badwebb here that actually ever witness'd their brand new xb tumble over while in for warranty service? What would you have done?" Mine was crashed when I took it in for the 1000 mile service. I don't think it is reasonable to expect them to replace a bike they damaged by accident. I may have wanted them to replace it, but really they are only required to repair it to, or better than the condition they received it in. I spoke with the GM, who agreed to throw in some extras, and of course I did not pay for the service. I could not be happier with the bike, and it rides like it has not been rebuilt (they replaced the frame and swingarm, among others in a very long list of parts). I will of course try to avoid having to take my bike to them and will not allow any more "test rides" by their techs, but I hold nothing against them. Accidents happen. They made right with me.} | ||
| Patrickh |
Escham, I don't know if you are a new rider or not but it sounds like you may be. I remember when I first started out I was very cautious about repairs done to my bike...In fact, I remember desperately wanting a new bike because I would be sure that it had never been crashed. I was worried that perhaps there would be some hidden damage on a used bike that would dramatically fail while at speed on the highway. As time went on, and I became a better rider and I started working on my own bikes a lot of that trepidation went away. I have wadded 2 bikes now, and limped home on them with the intent of returning them to full glory...I have even taken one of the repaired bikes to track days. I'm sorry for all your tribulations and I hope you can fix your bike. Take it from someone who knows, a properly repaired bike is just as good as a new one. BTW, always do all your braking and gear selection before you enter the turn, your only responsibility lent over should be rolling on the throttle. (please, no smart-ass comments about trail braking from the peanut gallery) | ||
| Diablobrian |
trail baking is strictly an advanced riding technique and should not be attempted by a novice rider. | ||
| Escham |
I am not sure exactly where I stated that I did not make a mistake in the accident and if I gave anyone that impression you should re-read my posts. I reacted to what the bike was doing and maybe I did the right thing and maybe I didn't. I do know that I had ridden it for 1000 miles without a single hiccup. Since then it has been nothing but a problem. Just to single out one poster. Curtyd, I believe you may have pulled some incrediblly bad Karma on yourself with your comments. You sound as though you have some experience in insurance fraud yourself, but let me assure that I don't operate in that fashion. You fit the perfect mold of the "keyboard queen", always an answer, gets the perfect resolution, has all the right answers, sleeps with all the cheerleaders, such bravado. I am sure, in reality, you are quite a piece of work. I solute you mister "I thought they were laughing with me" man. Escham | ||
| Skyguy |
Escham, I will go to bat for you and say you did not toss your bike on purpose. I have to say however that there is no way for the tranny to go from 3rd. to 1st. gear without a whole lot of bouncing off neutral first. A sound and noise not to be mistaken. A false neutral can happen going from second to first if the bike is "soft shifted". From third to neutral? I don't think so. As for the shop causing damage in a tip over to the tranny? Not likely either. I went lowside and bent the shifter output shaft. I put a socket on it and bent it straight. I then only had to replace the seal. Even riding with a bent output shaft did not cause any problems. An important part of riding motorcycles is the ability to look for and admit mistakes made that led to a crash or almost crash. If you can not admit fault in this case I think you are not of the right mindset to be a rider. Once again I am not trying to be mean just realistic. Sell the bike, total it out, do what you got to do to put this behind you. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Eric, I have been thinking about this. The way the shift drum is designed to shift from third to first would require missing 2 detent spots. Those would be both 2nd gear and neutral. Because of the design of the drum and shift forks this would be a near impossible action. Is is possible, since second gear is much taller than first, you were mistaken about what gear you were in? I never shift into first unless I'm stopped on my firebolt, or for that matter any other twin. If you don't match revs correctly on that downshift it can cause you to lose traction, or even make the rear wheel hop! without a gear indicator it can be hard as a novice to keep track of what gear you are in. I've been riding for the last 25 years off and on, and i still lose track, or at least I did until I put my translogic unit on. Acumen makes a stand-alone gear indicator for those that are interested. | ||
| Escham |
Skyguy, I do not intend to argue about what happened. I know what happened. It was not an isolated event and I had complained about it happening prior to this event. I do not claim to know what happened or what caused it. I can only report that it did. Again, I do not claim to be a skilled rider and I do not know if I made a mistake or not, that's not to say I didn't. I know that there was a failure that preceded my actions. Skill or no skill, I would not have had to make a decision in the absence of that. I have taken that same exit at least 3-4 times. I startled at the front end dipping with the release of the clutch. Experience may have enabled me to adjust and compensate, I would be naive to argue otherwise. I am certain that I have not placed the entire blame on HD of HP in anything I have written about my wreck (other than the comment about the pucks, but you'd be myopic to focus on that). You assume too much if any of you assume that I am. I have only reported my experience as that's the forum's function. I did not say I am going to do anything other than what I have done and that was take it back to them and let them look at it. What else do you expect? Some of you guys need to work on your comprehension skills because I have re-read my post and I still don't see any direct finger pointing, threat of action or reaction scenarios, only an account of my experience. This whole event has been a calamity of errors. I admit I have some responsibility in it because I have not had a lot of experience, but that is not where the majority of the focus should be. If anyone on this boards would settle for the way this WHOLE situation has played out, then you are irresponsible consumers. This has been a frustrating and exhausting experience, that's where I am at. Escham | ||
| Dbird29 |
Still asking for a new bike? | ||
| Patrickh |
Eric, Normally I don't involve myself in drama. Fact of the matter is that you prolly popped you bike into 1st, even though you thought you were going into 2nd, cause you lost track of the gears. It still happens to me sometimes and I have been riding for 16 years. If you cracked your primary open and looked at the pieces necessary for changing gears in your bike you would see that it is not possible, mechanically, to "skip a gear". That being said...don't stop riding. Fix your bike and enjoy it. Forget any negativity and get back on the road. |
