| Author | Message | ||
     Lost_in_ohio |
Just curious if he ever got it straightened out. | ||
| Escham |
That's me. I am still waiting to see what they plan to do about it. The owner is due back on Monday. The store I bought it from has a sister store and they called and offered to take it to their dealership (which is much bigger, but not sure how much better) and let their techs go through it. I declined and told her I was not going to accept that bike back. I told her that my wife, who bought the bike, is against me getting another one due to the accident. The minimum would be a new bike (07 since they are due out next week), a shopping credit for all the headache and putting new traction grips on it (I had just put them along with CRGs on it). I will update as I move through this. Thanks for your concern! Escham | ||
| Pwnzor |
Yeah buddy keep us all up to date as your drama unfolds. I think once you get the owner involved you will get satisfaction. I can't imagine a proprietor allowing an employee to handle this issue without him or her being present. When I had issues with Laidlaw's Harley in Baldwin Park Ca., I got the owners involved more than once. It wasn't hard to do, they were readily available and by not acting the fool I got exactly what I wanted with no fuss. So go forward with optimism and give the benefit of doubt to the owner. I believe you will come away happy. | ||
| Escham |
Well here's the latest from a conversation today: the dealership called today and said they would not replace the bike and would only give $7,000.00 for it on a buy back. Also, added that they were not sure how much longer they would be able to keep it there for me. To say the least, I feel disrespected by their offer. I am working with some people that think they will be able to help with this matter, but I am very upset about this whole situation. Escham | ||
| Pcmodeler |
Have you called Buell directly yet? | ||
| Escham |
Not directly, but I have been in touch with some people who can "influence" the situation. I am going to give them some time to see if this situation can be resolved without pressing it. | ||
| Pcmodeler |
I say make the call. I had to talk to my local dealer 3 times to convince them that my wheel bearings were part of the recall. Every time they kept insisting they were not. I finally called Buell, they confirmed what I and everyone else on this board said, conferenced me in over the phone with the dealership and told them to take care of it. | ||
| Jon |
Stay in touch with those "influencers", but don't let this drag on. I would call Buell also. We're watching your story, Escham. | ||
| Brad_buell |
I Agree........Call Buell, too!!! | ||
| Court |
________________________________________ What was the resolution to the problem proposed by the dealer? Did they fix (that's the extent of their obligation) the problems they were responsible for? It sounds to me like there has been an onset of buyer's remorse occur simultaneously with the dropping/misrepair/repair of the bike. The dealers obligation is to "make you whole", that is repair the bike to the condition it was before they dropped it. Nothing in that, under the wildest circumstances would involve replacing or buying the bike back. So we need to separate the issues. The dealer dropped the bike. Apparently they tried to fix it once and did not fix it properly. Is it fixed properly (cosmetically, no leaks, no evidence of dropping) now? The answer to that question, as you solve, this will be one word, "yes" or "no". If it's "yes" the dealer has fulfilled their obligation. Don't get me wrong, I'll bet you’re still pissed at that point; it's just that it's your problem and not the dealers. Buell, as I understand from our correspondence has ALREADY been contacted. That's the reason I stayed on the sidelines. I saw a bit of the correspondence and it looked like Buell was eager and willing to help the dealer in anyway to get the bike completely repaired to precisely the condition you delivered it. The last I saw, I thought this had been done. It sounds, if the dealer has done those things above AND you are still upset, then the thing to do is to collect the bike. Sell it (Bad web has classifieds that work) and be done with it. So, my big instant question, is "has the bike been properly repaired?" I'd also caution you, once notified by the dealer that you need to pick the bike up, about just "leaving it in protest". Various states have some fairly ominous "warehouseman's liens" and the last thing you want to do is allow the dealer to make a well documented and valid claim against your bike. Happy or unhappy you presently OWN the bike. Keep us posted. The important thing is that the dealer be responsible and fully executer their responsibilities by doing what's right, normal and proper. In this case that is FIXING (not replacing) the bike. I'm unaware of anyone who's dropped their own bike, done a couple hundred $$ damage and bought a replacement. The NORMAL and expected resolution is to fix it, and fix it right. Did they ever have a 3rd party examine the bike? Keep us posted. Like I said, I've kinda, after you contacted Buell, stayed on the sidelines. I'd be happy, if it helps, to share my PERSONAL opinion. | ||
| Curtyd |
Heck, I personally can't wait until I get the first scratch on a new machine. I actually hope it occurs sooner than later, means I can just RIDE the DARN thing and stop detailing it every day. Maybe they did you a favor in a round about way, but that's just ME. I'd be making a deal for some steep discounts on accessories with free labor to install them, "good will" and all that. "Glass half empty or half full?" | ||
| Lake_bueller |
I think the bigger picture is that he now owns a big that may show up in HD-NET as been previously damaged. Therefore it will have less resale or trade value in the future. I would expect to be more than fairly compensated for a crashed bike that was caused by a dealer employee. But that's just my $.02 worth of input. | ||
| Skyguy |
I fanything hurts potential resale of the bike it is the dealers responsability to make it right. If it does not show up try to get what you can but the shop is only legally required to repair it. | ||
| Glitch |
Here we go again. | ||
| Whodom |
If I followed Escham's posts correctly, his current issue is NOT with the fact that they dropped his bike. I just re-read the original posts and the follow-on thread. Escham seemed to have been satisfied with the dealership's original effort to correct their screw up (damaged parts on bike replaced). He was however, extremely upset when he took the bike out for a ride after it was returned to him and he nearly crashed due to oil leaking from someplace, which appeared to be due to incompetent repairs by the dealer. THIS is when he said he would have to have a new bike to be satisfied. I can certainly understand Escham being being very upset about the near-crash. OTOH I can't see that Buell has any obligation to provide him with a new bike because of this near-accident. Either there's something wrong with the bike (which has been or can be fixed) or there isn't. The possible "devaluation" of the bike bike hasn't been an issue up until now. It would certainly be reasonable to expect some sort of compensation from the dealer (free service for ~1 year, a voucher for some free accessories/clothing, something like that), but I can't see that they owe Escham a new bike. | ||
| Court |
>>>>I personally can't wait until I get the first scratch on a new machine. I just....after waiting far longer than I should have...bought a shiny new pickup truck. First thing I did was head home, get the dog and let him run around and get dog hair everywhere. Then I grabbed a 2" diameter x 8" A326 structural steel bolt and hurled it in the bed with gusto, thus insuring I know where the first dent came from. I now drive it with no worry. I **DO** think the dealer has an obligation to make this bike right. I do not know if that has been done or not. | ||
| Pcmodeler |
That's usually why I buy used. Someone else has typically put the first scratch/dent on the vehicle. Heck, my bike looks much better now than it did when I bought it. | ||
| Glitch |
I always take a new pick-up out in the woods the first day I get it, for the same reason. | ||
| Curtyd |
Oh, by the way, "in the same position as prior to the accident" does include loss of value, was this an accident with a driver or a tip over in the parking lot/shop? There may be some leverage there if they didn't report an accident on the public roads and you may want to contact your insurance co. if you had full coverage. They can claim against the HD's insurance co. when they have to pay you for loss of value. That might get a little more movement out of them, also. Don't hire or "threaten" a lawyer when you can negotiate this yourself, though. The $$'s just aren't there. | ||
| Court |
I'm thinking I must be confused on what folks think "fair and equitable" is. Someone tell me, presume for the sake of discussion that a 3rd party, thoroughly knowledgable, was unable to detect that any of the unfortunate things had happened to this bike. What is the measure of what you'd deem "fair"? I'm sincere. Gosh, I'd help this guy get whatever seemed to be fair, that's for sure. I'm not sure that includes, at least in my own mind, a new motorcycle. Same drill on the attorney. I am in the construction business and we avoid at all costs the use of words like "sue", "litigation" and attorneys" and we liberally use phrases like "equitable adjustment". Wayne, our family attorney, charges $600 per hour. I'd damn sure not want him on the phone spending many of those "6 minute clicks" talking to a service person at a dealership. I've sued and been sued on several occasions. I've always prevailed and consider myself to have LOST in each and every instance. | ||
| Curtyd |
He does probably have an obligation if asked to tell a prospective buyer about the repairs. Buyer beware is a legal tenet but you also can't necessarily hide defects. But I understand Court, if there are no defects there may be no diminished value. I'd get that 7K buyback offer in writing. I know it's just some salesman trying to make a buck, but I'd then argue that is was the best evidence yet of the diminished value. Even the dealer says it's worth less, now. HAVE FUN with it, until you get something you think is as fair as all your money back. Looks like they don't want to do that so use their own words against them. Small Claims Court doesn't need a lawyer if you're very careful about it. Lose though and you could pay his attorney's fees. Mediation isn't binding, but I'd bet the dealer sends his lawyer to cover his side, with the timer ticking every hour he's there. They may settle after you file the complaint. Or they may have a lawyer who wants a bunch of new shiny metal on his electra-something who is more than happy to have you chasing your tail around in Small Claims Court while his two-wheels gets upgraded instead of yours. Be careful out there, blood in the water attracts SHARKS... (Message edited by CURTYD on July 11, 2006) | ||
| Curtyd |
P.S. Do NOT ever call me as an expert witness in used motorcycle values. My perspective is they ALL are worth about 1/2 of their sales price just driving them off the showroom floor. Don't have to drop them or anything. Get one stolen, it's a lot of work to get back anything close to what you have in it. Try trading in your used bike at a dealer, that's a eye opener how low they go in their trade in offer. That's where I say use those sell high/trade low tactics against them... | ||
| Diablobrian |
The big question still seems to be ......Is the bike properly repaired yet? After that has been established then any negotiation beyond that can begin. I strongly advise having a knowledgeable 3rd party test ride the bike to be sure things are right before moving beyond that point, because I gather that you have very little saddle time on the Buell to be able to assess what's normal and acceptable. If they have indeed restored the bike to the condition it should be in, then you can begin discussing what the dealerships obligation to you, the customer, is. I do not believe you'll be able to get them to take the bike back, or replace it if there is no lasting damage. What resolution short of that would make you happy? Would a credit in the accessory/clothing shop make it good? If so how much? I understand you are upset, and to be sure they did not act in a professional manner in how they handled the situation from the beginning. I know that they delivered your bike while you were not home so you did not have a chance to examine the bike on its' return and from your posts i'd wager your wife signed off on it because she did not know what she should look for, being a non-rider. I also know that you were excited about getting your bike back, and in a hurry to check it out. However, it was not a good idea to do a shake-down run in the middle of the night. I'd guess your pre-ride check was abbreviated due to lack of light since you had to find a flashlight to identify what the problem (oil) was when you got home. I'm not trying to rip on you, I'm just trying to make a fair assessment of what's happened from a more objective viewpoint than either you or the dealer can have. There are issues of trust involved here. Your faith in the dealer and the bike has been shaken. Trust is something usually freely given...ONCE. If that trust is broken it is very hard to get it back. For riding the only way to get your faith back in the bike is to ride it. Take it in steps, and you'll establish a relationship with your bike. The dealership and you will have to work out what it will take to regain your trust. I know if I continued to use this dealership for service I'd be getting a service manual and re-checking things very carefully, or just doing it myself. There are also other fish in the sea. Even if they aren't as convenient, there are other dealers that should be happy to get your business. Don't be afraid to shop around for the dealership that "fits" YOU. I don't have all the answers, but hopefully this will give you access to a different perspective on things. There are badwebbers out here willing to try to help. | ||
| Escham |
Ok, there are a couple of issues here. The MAJOR one being that my wife does not want me to ride anymore. A situation that was not present prior to the accident. Number 2, I am not of the opinion that anyone should knowingly mislead a buyer of anything. I am honest and I expect the same. To advise otherwise is poor judgement. I would and will disclose that the bike has been dropped. I know the value of the bike is decreased due to the damage it received. I am not quite sure if I am willing to jump on it anymore either. I will pursue this to the extent that I feel is necessary. Do I hold Buell responsible and do I demand as much from Buell, never once did I even hint at it. That would be asinine. I hold Harley Davidson of High Point responsible for all of this. I simply asked that Buell intercede and try to influence the dealerships action. Is the bike in the condition it was in prior to the accident? I do not know and I honestly scared to find out. I am not willing to put myself in a similar situation after having heard, "We test rode it and it is good as new." once again. I trusted them before and it almost got me hurt. There are a multitude of "what ifs" that jump out from the accident. Is the value of the bike the same as another 2006 XB12s with identical mileage and no history of damage? Absolutely not. That is unless you suggest that I knowingly mislead a potential buyer, in which case I feel for you, your conscience must be extremely heavy. I am going to continue to pursue this until I feel that I have been properly compensated. I am willing to be flexible, but the response from the dealership is completely ridiculous. I gave them the opportunity to make the repairs to the damage they caused, but their repairs almost cost me a lot of personal loss, not to mention the emotional wreck it made my wife. Escham (Message edited by Escham on July 11, 2006) | ||
| Escham |
Also, Court, to consider this as buyers remorse is also a bit silly and it is upsetting coming from you. Anyone who has followed my posts has read about what a great time I have had riding it. Oddly enough, one of my posts even stated, "No buyer's remorse here.". I am not sure how riding a Lightning could ever leave someone with that sensation. You see, I have been waiting for 5 years (both myself and my wife to get second degrees in nursing) to get a motorcycle. I never stated I was dissatisfied with the bike, just the service. If I was truly "remorseful", I would settle for nothing less than my money back. Escham | ||
| Diablobrian |
I am honestly very sorry that this went down the way it did. There is no excuse for the way the dealership handled the situation once the bike had been dropped. I hate to say it, but everyone does fall from time to time. Your wife needs and needed to be aware of it. In fact most of the time it happens less than 10 miles from your house, sometimes FAR less. No matter how skilled and cautious the rider is. Unfortunately this realization came at a time (just after purchase) where you are at maximum depreciation. /edit due to simultaneous posts (Message edited by diablobrian on July 11, 2006) | ||
| Whodom |
The MAJOR one being that my wife does not want me to ride anymore. A situation that was not present prior to the accident. Escham, Correct me if I'm wrong, but you didn't actually have an accident, did you? My understanding from reading your posts was that after the dealership returned the bike to you, you took it out for a ride and almost wrecked because oil was leaking onto the rear tire, evidently caused by their incompetent repairs. For whatever reason, skill, luck, etc. you did not wreck. You could have wrecked, and possibly just damaged the bike. Or you could have gotten some minor scrapes. Or you could have been seriously injured. Or you could have been killed. None of those things actually happened. It seems to me that your reaction (and to a greater extent your wife's reaction) is "I was nearly killed!". Like Diablo says, odds are we're all going to fall some time. This incident just brought your wife's real feelings about you riding a motorcycle to light. I've only been riding (as an adult) for about 4 years. My wife and I have had some serious heart-to-heart talks about my riding and I sleep well at night knowing she understands the risks and also understands that the benefits to me greatly outweigh those risks. Your posts certainly make it sound like you were enjoying riding as much as I do- did your wife not see that? Like most everything else in life, motorcycling is a risk/benefit activity. You and your wife have to decide which outweighs which. | ||
| Curtyd |
I think we have a little bit of a overreaction and also think this fellow and his wife may not have the personality required to be bike riders. Bike repairs are not nuclear physics. A experienced rider can usually tell pretty quick if a bike isn't handling right. It usually just takes a light touch on the handlebars and run it up and down to speed and it will tell you a lot. Things happen out there and it can be a very dangerous pastime. We only have to look around us to realize that. Most of us have lost friends to this sport. Not exactly like soccer on the weekends. If you don't think there are serious risks here that you are willing to take, well...this time was some oil splashing out, next time a pick-up truck or a deer jumps into your path (Godspeeed Larry Grodsky) but you won't have a ready target to blame so maybe you aren't suited for this. Lots of folks aren't, no big deal. Stay on 4-wheels, I like my MINI too. | ||
| Skyguy |
There are some things you and your wife should have known and accepted or not gotten a bike. 1. All riders crash 2. It is not if, it is when. 3. Not all crashes are that bad. 4. Some crashes are really bad, even fatal. 5. Most riders get hurt eventually. 6. It is not about how crazy you ride but about how crazy they drive. 7. It is also about luck.............. I always get sad when I hear of a rider who has a minor crash or incident and decide to give up riding. Did they not know? Did no one tell them motorcycles are inherently dangerous. | ||
| Lake_bueller |
Great post Skyguy!!! I started typing this big long story about my first (and only, so far!!!) crash. But it wasn't important. It's just the realization that will will probably happen again. I just hope I'm as lucky next time as I was the first time. |
