| Author | Message | ||
     Steve_mackay |
There is very little "consumer" products made in the good 'ol US of A. What is making us money, as a tool and die shop here in the USA, is medical stuff. The consumer products, China, Taiwan, Eastern Europe, and Brazil can beat us up on price too much. I'd love to see more HD and Buell stuff myself. It's more interesting to work on when you have a passion for the product. We've done stuff for them, as well as Polaris/Victory stuff in the past. But medical is where it's at these days for US manufacturing. | ||
| Brucelee |
Last time I looked there were about 15M manufacturing workers in the US. They must be making something! | ||
| Court |
>>>They must be making something! They are, they are making those things we make better, and more efficiently, than anyone else in the world. About 150 of those folks are producing Buell Motorcycles.....make that Buell American-Made World Class Motorcycles. We do MANY things better than other people in the world. Look at the F-16's being flown by many of the world's military units. Find me a county, foe or ally, who isn't conspiring with or against us, using Microsoft software. Don't for one minute try to sell us short, we are the envy of the world in terms of our education, industriousness and innovation. But, we also have one of the world's (although we have dropped somewhat in ranking) highest standards of living which imputes, at least in part, high wages which tips the balance or manufacturing economy to other nations in some areas. Case in point, the Operating Engineers have walked off jobs in New York City, having turned down the offer of $86.25 per hour with 6% wage increases for the next 5 years. Find me a country where construction workers turn down $175,000 per year. | ||
| Steve_mackay |
15M, sure, and DWINDLING rapidly. In the midwest alone, there is an estimated 40% less tool & die shops than there were 10 years ago. I get auction notices DAILY from around the country. This isn't just small mom and pop places. This is LARGE, well established manufacturing facilities. Don't get me wrong, I'm not whining or complaining. We just need to learn how to better compete. But with China, they don't always play fair. | ||
| Court |
Hey. . . at the risk of divulging a personal addiction. . . I'll share with you something we manufacture in the UNITED STATES of AMERICA that is unrivaled in the world.       Okay. . .I do admit I am lusting over a Dave Cornell amplifier.....but it's 3rd on the list behind American Made products | ||
| Ducxl |
I make screw machined car parts for ITT Continental,Lear,Delphi,and Autoliv,etc.We once negotiated a huge contract/w ITT Teves and were set to pay the cost of added machinery by amortizing their cost with the unit price of the ABS housings.ITT came back to the table a few months later to notify us that Poland came in below us(lines were already in place) and if we didn't meet their price we were done.Capitalism at it's worst.Now please........help me see the light.I'm saddened by this dialogue. | ||
| Ducxl |
Whoa! Jimi Hendrix,Cool. Fender/Gibson probably do not significantly add to our GDP. BTW,who made my tuber frame??? | ||
| Brucelee |
"Capitalism at it's worst" Not really! This is how capitalism does work, the person offering the best value to the customer (from the customer's perspective) wins the order. That is how price/value is optimized. Unfort in bid situations, one winner, many losers. | ||
| Ducxl |
Bruce,i find it exploitive. I used a horrible word for my feelings earlier but,you don't make deals/w people only to pull the rug out from beneath them.That is unethical. | ||
| Court |
Ahhh....who made the tube frames. . . now THERE's a story! | ||
| Ducxl |
i'm ears... | ||
| Buellgirlie |
duc - your company shouldnt have changed/upgraded your lines without a contract in place.....until everything is signed on the dotted line, everything remains negotiable. perhaps in the "old days", handshake deals were ok (and if trust is still there, they still are!), but for most situations in business - get it in writing! or get your company some better negotiators to get it in the contract. D | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Duc, I've also done work with ITT Teves. Big corporations usually aren't very ethical. I see this type of thing DAILY unfortunately. | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Dora, Companies the size of ITT Teves do this to small business, even WITH a contract. There isn't much us small businesses can do unfortunately. GM did something like that to us a while back. Not on as large a scale, but they did just kinda call up 1/2 way through the job, and just said, "Naah... We don't really want you to make this for us". They just moved the whole darn project to China. All we got was the 33% down payment. That barely covered the steel for the job. | ||
| Buellgirlie |
contracts are enforceable, so put cancellation, work disruption, tooling equipment, raw materials etc. clauses in! business is business. but fair is fair too. get it in writing, and enforce it. blaming "big business" for loopholes in contracts isnt fair. i would bet that the big company calculated in, to the penny, what getting out of the contract would be, in addition to going with the new vendor for their total costs. who has read "the world is flat" by thomas friedman? its an enlightening and frightening read. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0374292795/ref=ase_bookstorenow57-20/103-323078 1-5600625?n=283155&tagActionCode=bookstorenow57-20 D | ||
| Ducxl |
Yeah,and when management announced the bad news to the masses(along with paycuts benefit reductions) i questioned litigation to the owner,who replied,"litigation is for losers".And we're still struggling to regain a profitable buisness again.But i've only 3 days left there(i quit after 20 years) for a new job.The company is spiralling to bankruptcy now,many have already left before me.It is very sad. It "seems" Buell follows the same buisness model. | ||
| Court |
>>>>>It "seems" Buell follows the same buisness model. Please explain that to me. I am engaged in working on a book about Buell. Motorcycles will play a fairly small role, the business model will play a huge role. Sounds like I need to have consulted you. Please explain your perception of the Buell model. Court | ||
| Crusty |
Where are Buell frames made? In a factory! Even I know that! | ||
| Oldog |
Where were the tube frames made? | ||
| Buellgirlie |
Where are Buell frames made? In a factory! Even I know that! no, silly, they're delivered by the buell frame fairy!  duc - sorry to hear it, but the good news is that your skills are marketable and you've found another job with a different company. best wishes with your new job! D | ||
| Oldog |
is that fairy any relation to the snack fairy? | ||
| Court |
>>>>In a factory! Even I know that! Don't bet large sums of money on that answer although it, probably for the better, is true today. | ||
| Ulendo |
playing devils advocate a bit here We do MANY things better than other people in the world. Look at the F-16's being flown by many of the world's military units. Find me a county, foe or ally, who isn't conspiring with or against us, using Microsoft software. I'll name one right next door to you - Canada. the F16 was deemed unsuitable for our uses, and even though we went with the F18 Hornet, even those started having issues after a few years ( cracks at the wing roots !!) up until 4 years ago, the D.N.D. ( department of national defense) used a Unix based system. might have changed since then...but I hope not, since unix based system is MUCH more secure!! I'll also point out that a lot of americans arent too happy abotu Microsoft, and Windows dominating the market.... Both of the above are due to intended use...something that can completely change perspective on how good/bad a product is. If I want a bike I can fix with a monkey wrench, and a hammer, for a bargain price, that will go anywhere..I'd get a Ural with a powered axle sidecar. if I want a high speed screamer...maybe a Ducati, the new KTM Superduke, or an Aprillia. any of the above could be considered 'crap' if used for something other than their intended purpose.( a 999 makes a lousy adventure bike, for example, and the Ural is at best considered ugly, but functional!) Now come on court - on topic here: pretty sure you could tell me where the engine castings are actually made....assuming its not classified information  | ||
| Rocketman |
Motorcycles will play a fairly small role, the business model will play a huge role. Why it seems important to write a book about Buells business meanderings rather than the motorcycles is beyond me. It's beginning to sound like you're writing the Buell equivalent of Sucher's Harley Davidson, though that featured the motorcycles heavily, it was still for the most part, dead boring. Why not concentrate on Buells motorcycle 'connections', including unknown projects such as the Japanese cruiser Buell designed. Shed light on the Suzuki seat design. Stuff like that that bikers would want to sink their teeth into rather than targeting some college graduate looking for an ology in business studies or similar. That's what the Buell book should at least mention. Business books are for business types, and over rated wanna be's who like to quote from them. Rocket | ||
| Steve_mackay |
contracts are enforceable, so put cancellation, work disruption, tooling equipment, raw materials etc. clauses in! business is business. but fair is fair too. get it in writing, and enforce it. Ahh, yes. But large corporations have the $$$ to fight this in court. They have teams of Lawyers on the payroll with nothing better to do. We don't. We, as a small manufacturer, can't afford to fight this type of thing. Our Business dealings with both HD and Buell have been completely honorable. I also know several others that have done business with HD/Buell, and can say the same thing. | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
I am engaged in working on a book about Buell Please don't forget my advance order for two first edition copies! (Message edited by steveshakeshaft on July 05, 2006) | ||
| Court |
You just want to read the part about the legal battle in Britain in 1998. | ||
| Blake |
Using the predelections or fanciful imaginings of Canada's military to make a point against American military aircraft is, well, not much of a point. There are no better aircraft in the world, anywhere. I know this for a fact. | ||
| Cowboy |
As the largest % of the ruleing party is french I sure dont think they would have any thing good to say. | ||
| Jlnance |
Here's a story about legal battles with powerful companys. It's kind of sickening and awe inspiring at the same time. http://www.forbes.com/asap/2002/0624/044.html |
