| Author | Message | ||
     Diablobrian |
And an even bigger you-know-what to put out if it catches fire during the welding. Add a little iron-oxide and some powdered aluminum in the mix and you've got REAL trouble on your hands.   | ||
| Ulendo |
magnesium, aluminum oxide, and iron oxide - hmm, Thermite? | ||
| Rex |
If I am not mistaken, the sportster, blast and buell motors are manufactured in milwaukee power plant. You can take the tours there. believe they do the drilling of the cases, machine work on the motor etc. I know I have seen them doing the piston work, transmission gears, shafts, cams, pistons, etc. Quite a manufacturing process. robots do a lot of the work. raw casings before machine work? I don't know where they are poured. | ||
| Court |
The "country of origin" of a book is not determined by where the ink is printed on the paper. The "bean counters" are involved much earlier in the process. Economy, in design, is something that you design toward. You don't get a running proto then go looking to get everything on it at a lower price. If anyone in the equation is a "price hoar" (sp) it is the end customer with Buell simply serving as an intermediary agent. Motorcycle consumer price points are much more interesting and intruiging than most the bar room conversations you hear about them. In typical consumer fashion, we say one thing "I want 150RWHP" and do another when we introduce economy into the buying equation. Basic economics of supply and demand assure that we allocate scarce resources in a predictable fashion. One thing that will help the casual observer is to think of the entire, concept to showroom, process and be constantly mindful that in order to exist, that's simply EXIST (not race or give away free sling bags) Buell must SELL motorcycles and sell them at a PROFIT. It's not until you realize this that you can truly appreciate what Erik Buell has done. | ||
| Gowindward |
"And as far as global sourcing,forget Verlicci,soon Buell will be sourcing frames from North Korea as,they'll come in below Italy on price.And that's ALL that matters to Buell,price hoars as they ARE!" If you believe this why do you buy their products and hang out at the Buell riders web site? You could always find a nice communist motorcycle to ride. something built back in the good ole days of the Soviet Republic. | ||
| Anonymous |
DucX1, KIss my behind, quite frankly. We go where the quality is, not the price. Know a good US manufacturer making 50 frames a day with the kind of proven capability to deliver quality, such they are chosen by BMW, Ducati, etc.? I'm sure your background is as pure as the driven snow, so you must be 100% American Indian, right? But wait, didn't those guys came from Asia originally?! Isn't the real beauty of America that we are a melting pot for quality folks from many places seeking freedom? So why can't a Buell motorcycle be that way? Or are you a member of Aryan Racing? | ||
| Cochise |
Ok, no need to be getting in a tizzy over Duc's comment. I know, there is always a reason to post as anonymous, but at least don't hide behind it. If you are from "The Company" I can understand, I guess, but make the comment about smooching the behind, but at least leave the "you must be a racist" comment out. If you are Erik, sorry buddy, I still love your bikes, and don't forget to look at www.americanthunderbike.org in your spare time. | ||
| Jon |
Hey Court! Anony, You've touched on a favorite subject of mine, origins and people groups. Duc, I'd say if Korea makes a quality part for the most competitive price and delivery, they win the contract right? Or Italy, Germany, England, etc. Or a local USA vendor. Price "hoar"? Is there a dictionary in the house!? Nothing to do with whoredom, hoardom, or similar. What did you say? You don't want to pay more for your Buell than the selling price? You hoar!! | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
we wont see diplomatic relations with NK in our lifetime. | ||
| Jon |
I think the assumption is that South Korea is being discussed here, not North Korea. | ||
| Buellgirlie |
 where did the original topic go? D | ||
| Ducxl |
HeHe.I'm sorry..Oh yeah,Schwinn and Cannondale make frames??? Doh! Maybe i have a passion for using my fellow American to source what i need.I suppose E.Buell helps some in that regard.I'm proud of my Buells' | ||
| Court |
>>>>Maybe i have a passion for using my fellow American to source what i need Buell sources frames in Italy for the same reason we equipped the last $880M power plant (went on-line 30 days ago) with generators and transformers from Korea....they are the best in the world. It's McConnell Econ 101 stuff. The distribution of talent and resources dictate specialization. Transportation, logistics and communication are beginning to catch up enabling us to benefit and make the world economy more transparent and efficient. Some places and people do things better. My wife travels to Dublin periodically to check up on the folks she has doing her financial stuff. Dublin has excellent education and relatively inexpensive labor. The 5 hour time difference bothers her not. Funny thing is that I'd never buy a $12M transformer or a $35M generator in the USA but I'd never buy MV switchgear from anybody but G.E. in Burlington, Iowa. If you want something "Made in the USA", you're late to the party. | ||
| Aesquire |
The best gear making machines are made in Rochester, NY. The best gears are made by the guys using the best machines to make them, from Gleason Works, Roch. NY. The local cheap Chinese junk tool ( to be fair they have some Taiwan & Japanese stuff as well as 'murican junk ) store sells anvils from Red China & Free Russia. Guess which one is worth a darn? Yep, The Russian one. Before the fall of the Iron Curtain? You could not get either, but could get a mediocre one from Free China. (Formosa) Buell's are spec'd to get us the good stuff, from whoever makes it to spec & on time. This is an ever changing thing. I doubt anything will be produced for export in N. Korea except starving folks & hate for as long as the present dictator is there. If S. Korea makes a better footpeg, I don't mind. What's the story on the fairing mount? please please? | ||
| Ulendo |
okay, chill - I think my comment on 'bean counters' was a bit misconstrued!!. IMHO ( and it is just MO) going 'cheap' doesnt necessarilly equal 'economical'. I was more intimating that they DO have to sell, and that just 'cause someone can design something doesnt necesarilly mean it can be built - you farm out for bids, and see if its feasible. as for 'american=good', no offense, but thats as off-base of a comment as saying that italy ( or china)=junk. I ride a buell 'cause I liked what I saw, tested, and heard. period. nothing to do with where it, or its parts are made. by the same token, there are quite a few pieces if american 'technology' that you couldnt pay me to take...again, based solely on their own merit ( or lack thereoff) | ||
| Max |
Is it the same factory that aprilla frames are make ? | ||
| Brucelee |
"Maybe i have a passion for using my fellow American to source what i need" And that makes you ????? | ||
| Ducxl |
OMG! i'm going to be flamed forever after that post. I'm second generation American,i come from French Canadian and Italian immigrants.Raised by parents who were both ILGWU and Teamsters.Always taught to Buy American.Racist??? I hope not.I believe as a nation we're sending too much money to other countries.Just look at what happened to the once rich country of Argentina and how they gave away all of their wealth/manufacturing capability.I hope i'm not still antagonizing anyone.I'll try to keep my comments to myself. | ||
| Jon |
Ducxl, The only thing I took issue with was your comment that Buell was a price "hoar". If you want to attack anti-American practices look no further than your nearest politician. Feel free to debate all you want here and don't worry about it. | ||
| Steve_mackay |
I too like parts made in the USA. But unfortunately, you can't always have it that way. Buell does give the local places the chance to do the work. It doesn't always work out for the best. I've done some of the tooling for older Buells. And I've seen some neat things come across my desk for quotation over the past year. And, unfortunately, that's all I can say  But, because of the falling dollar, I wouldn't be surprised to see more American content in the Buell line up in the near future. | ||
| Rocketman |
This is one of those topics that I've had an itch over ever since I bought my S1W new in 1998. The very first thing that ever failed on my S1W was the indicator relay. Buell it seems knew this to be a problem too, as failed relays were replaced f.o.c by the dealer courtesy of Buell. My surprise was finding a relay made in Spain, and the quality of construction seemed poor compared to say, a relay manufactured by Bosch. If I were to look at every component on my S1W I could easily be put off by some of the components quality. It's all well and good having a set of up side down Showa forks and nice cast aluminium yokes to hold them but having to replace the head race bearings in less than 10000 miles is proof enough of a lesser quality bearing race being fitted. The same could be said of wheel bearings too. Another area for obvious scrutiny would be the fitting of rubber foot pegs taken from the Sportster range. For whatever reason, comfort, cost, aesthetics or whatever, a motorcycle of such uniqueness and commanding such a high price on the showroom floor, should have its own 'made for' foot pegs. The list goes on. Meanwhile, back in 1998 Ducati were selling 916 / 996's for not much more money than a S1W, and the build quality and component quality on the Ducati is stunning in comparison to the Buell. No I'm not blowing smoke up Ducati's arse, or dissing Buell. I just happen to own both brands and I can't draw a logical conclusion, other than a big profit margin, as to why the Buell could not be made better back then judging by its retail price when pitched next to that of the Ducati. Boy were those Ducati's a bargain price back then. Rocket | ||
| Bikertrash05 |
Aren't the XB and sportster motors built at the H-D plant in KC? They are made at the Capitol Drive plant. http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/content/pages/factory_tours/wauwatosa.jsp?HDC WPSession=Gp5J1ngsnMrrKTcym1HQ2TLLG1dX5FCvJfJsT5W5y0LlZhyy7zh4!-2114159800!-1972 85093&locale=en_us | ||
| Jlnance |
I can't draw a logical conclusion, other than a big profit margin, as to why the Buell could not be made better back then ... I would guess that Buell did not have the experience at the time to know how to do it better. | ||
| Ulendo |
the machining and assembly of engines I went all over that, and the linked pages, and there's no mention anywhere of casting facilities. Might just be an oversight, but now I'm REALLY curious - where are the darn cases cast?? ( I'm still trying to figure out where the heck it was I've seen a reference to buell case castings!!) Rocketman - regarding costs, and Ducati vs Buell, be GLAD Buell didnt follow suit - look at the corporate shenanigans Ducati has gone through just to try and stay afloat!! those 'qualit}}y parts at low cost' have almost sunk the company a few times!! | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Well, I've been reading and would like to make a comment. Last week I picked up a 1998 S3 in Ottawa, Ontario - CANADA. On the way home the front brake light switch packed it in. I get back home 2700km in 30hrs, park it next to my 1977 Yamaha RD400 and idle curiousity got the better of me. I pulled the switch off the 29yr old Yamaha and it was identical to the one off the S3. How about that - Japanese switchgear on my "American Made Motorcycle". | ||
| Jlnance |
Newfie - So many excellent things in your post.  The switch breaking screams "Buell quality problems," at least to me. But it turns out to be the same switch used by Yamaha. So perhaps I am judging Buell on my preconcieved notions? As to the American made motorcycle with foreign made parts, many people do see that as ironic, or perhaps dishonest. I do not. Say I bought an engine, some wheels, a frame, switchgear, and a transmission, and I constructed a motorcycle in my garage. I would tell people I built that bike and that it was made in my garage. Would anyone begrudge me that? This isn't to say I wouldn't like more domestic parts on the bike. There are economic and social reasons for that. But thats a different issue. | ||
| Court |
Buell switches came from Italy (keen eyes will recall they were the same as Ducati used with ONE exception) through 1998, then the switches were sourced from Japan...from the same place a good many of the Japanese manufacturers buy them. I seriously doubt any motorcycle company makes switches or controls. What % of a Harley-Davidson do you think is "domestic content"? There is really not much, other than infant Americans, that is actually MADE in America. Heck, I went to buy a wire BBQ scraper brush yesterday. I told the guy at the ACE hardwre that I insisted I wanted MADE IN AMERICA. He had nothing, but the 2 Chinese models. I went to Home Depot.....6 Chinese models. I told the guy this was unacceptable and left. I went to Lowe's.....4 Chinese models. Now I've got 3 hours of time invested, 17 miles on the car and am standing there empty handed. You know. . . a wire brush is a very simple device. Where should I buy one? Quick, the steaks are on. Fact is, like t-shirts, TV's, power plant generators and motorcycle switchgear, there is no such thing...GET OVER IT. I got rousted about my Buell, back in 1990, being a "Jap bike" and had to explain the fellow that his Hardley-Drivable had LOTS more "furrin'" stuff on it than my Buell. (Message edited by court on July 04, 2006) | ||
| Court |
P.S. - I am looking out my window at the Macy's barges and the $3.5M worth of fireworks set to be ignited near the Brooklyn Bridge tonight. Guess what. . the Grucci's, who'll be igniting them, are from Southern Italy and the pyrotechnics are from China! And then. . . I look to see where my Nikon Mage-noculars and 600mm lens are from ....Gaaaaaaaaaaaaads! Save me . . . I need an American made high-speed f2.4 600mm lens quick. | ||
| Ulendo |
There is really not much, other than infant Americans, that is actually MADE in America priceless!! | ||
| Jlnance |
There is really not much, other than infant Americans, that is actually MADE in America. That is an inaccurate statement.  It is true that very few physical consumer products are made in the US. But the economy isn't entirly based on physical consumer products. Your tylenol is made down the street from me: Mallinckrodt has a significant franchise in supplying bulk pharmaceuticals in the area of pain management and is the largest manufacturer of both medicinal narcotics and acetaminophen in the world. M2NC makes Lift trucks in Grifton, NC. I make software in Durham, NC |
