| Author | Message | ||
     Tramp |
jon- this is taken from the mormon website, "mormon.org" : Question: Is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints a Christian church? Answer: M. Russell Ballard, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, said: "There are many who say that Latter-day Saints believe in a 'different Jesus' than do other Christians and that we are therefore not 'Christian.' . . . We believe in the Jesus of the New Testament, and we believe what the New Testament teaches about Him . We do believe things about Jesus that other Christians do not believe, but that is because we know, through revelation, things about Jesus that others do not know. . . . "What we want most of all is for Christian and non-Christian alike to understand that we love the LORD Jesus Christ. We revere His name. We count it a great honor and privilege to take upon ourselves the name of Christ as Christians and as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints }} | ||
| Cochise |
Well, they're not going to come out and say, nope, we're a cult, heck we aren't even a christian church. That would be kind of hard for them to "recruit" as many people. If you want to keep them out of your house, answer the door naked...works every time. Heck, I'd join the Westboro Baptist Church before I'd join Morons or Jehova's False Witnesses | ||
| Eboos |
I have always heard that, in order to not offend anyone, three topics to avoid discussing are sex, politics, and religion. Since we already have the last two well covered... So who got laid last night?  | ||
| Tramp |
I, too, would happily join any extreme baptist church LONG before I'd take up with jehovah's, Morons, etc. I attended baptist 'bible school' as a little guy. I can hang with baptists... hearts are, by and large, in the right place. | ||
| Spike |
Just for clarification, the "things" they know about Jesus that others don't know include him being a created man, once sinful and imperfect, who earned his own salvation and through exaltation became a god ruling over earth. They also believe Jesus to be merely one of many gods. This is a complete contrast to the biblical Jesus who was God and was with God from the beginning (Jn 1:1-2). | ||
| Jon |
Spike, You must be a brother of mine. | ||
| Tramp |
that's all well and good, but they do refer to him as the "LORD" Jesus Christ....which means they do deify him, (contrary to a earlier post) which makes them christians. | ||
| Jon |
Many people call Him "Lord" but do not recieve Him as such. That they hold Him not as God is indisputable Mormon doctrine. The quote you posted does not anywhere claim belief in Christ's diety, yet you assume that is what Ballard meant...and that's exactly the point of his carefully worded statement. Their "opinion" of the New Testament Jesus is not the "opinion" of the New Testament. That is why they claim that the Book of Mormon revises the Bible, because the Bible cannot in any way be construed to support their beliefs. | ||
| Bubabuell |
A rose by anyother name is still an opiate of the masses. | ||
| Kdan |
I got laid this morning...But that was really my last night. I'm getting pretty sick of working nights. Baptists, Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses, Heaven's Gate, they're all cults in their own way. They all believe in an intangible being for no apparent reason. | ||
| Cochise |
I can tell you the "being" I worship isn't intangible. He may be invisible, and I can't touch him (Is that what intangible means?  ) Anyway, a few weeks ago I attended a Seminar at our Church, entitled, "Conquering Debt God's Way" based on Joshua 10. Well, we were asked to sign a voluntary Contract with our Spouses, to God. The contract stated that we would tithe 10% of our gross earnings to our local church. We are also asked to find some money somewhere, be it a yard sale, or selling some stock, or what have you. We take all of our bills, take the principle owed, divided by minimum payments, then arrange them in order from the least amount of months to the highest, no matter what the interest rates. Pay off the first bill, and regularly pay the other debts, then use the money you were already paying to that first bill then apply it to the amount you are paying already on the debt that is next in line, which is called a snowball pay down. I told you all that to tell you this: We did that, and prayed about it to God, not buddha, or any of those other clowns gods. The day after we did that,we found some money and paid off a $2000 + debt, had a yard sale and paid off the second debt. I got a promotion and a raise of over $3 per hour, ATC club memberships have been coming in higher, post counts have been going up, I have another Sponsor lined up, just waiting to post his banner on the site. My wife was working Vacation Bible Schools and enlisted myhelp,I didn't want to go, but I did it anyway. A friend from church had a car break down and he had no idea how to fix it (bad alternator) I was able to fix it for him with no incident and my very unorganized garage where I couldn't find even a hammer, every tool I needed was right there in front of me. Long story longer, the next night, I was so amped up about helping the fellow from church I told my wife to call me if somebody else had car trouble. On her way home somebody ran a red light, she honked, he shortly later stopped in front of her and jumped out of his car, and ran to my wife's window, yelling at her with my two other kids in the car, she used the phone that she wasn't going to take with her, to call the Police. believe in an intangible being for no apparent reason. Not this cat. I have a reason. | ||
| Toona |
Since we are doin' a little testifying, here's my story about how my Omniscience God takes care of me: My business has been growing, up at least 10-15% for the last 8 years that I have owned it. I had outgrown my glorified 2 car garage and was looking for a bigger shop, couldn't find any and was checking into building a new one to the tune of $250,000 for a 4,000 sf shop. After driving by a 30,000 sf complex that had been empty/for sale for 2 years I called the number on the bldg. The seller agrees to separate the smaller 8200 sf building and lot from the other bldg (22,000 sf and balance of the lot), which they wouldn't do before. Long story short, I buy the 8200 sf bldg for less than 1/3 of building the new 4,000 sf, the next week a guy that has a Vtwin repair shop stops in and wants to rent 2,500 sf off of me. So instead of 15 yrs of mortgage payments, it will end up around 6 years, w/ his rent payment going towards principle only. Did I say how much I LOVE my GOD, and LORD and SAVIOR? BTW, before anyone says anything about how easy it is when "things" are good, my God also taught me a few things when someone torched my shop to the ground and all I had left was the things I needed to stay in business, all of my earthly collectibles (valued over $25,000) were charred remnants of things I previously put "hope and trust" in. Just God's way of saying, Who are you trusting in now? Earthly things (now up in smoke) or Me? Tough lesson, but a lesson learned. Sorry for being so long, but maybe someone is struggling w/ pride, as I was, and this will help them out, hopefully w/o having to go thru the same lesson I did. | ||
| Cochise |
Sweet!!!! Man we're a bunch of goofballs, aren't we? Yeah, I can live with that. | ||
| Jon |
Good stuff, guys. Indeed. | ||
| Bubabuell |
Scientology and Christianity have some things is common - the attempt to convert, proselytize and judge others who don't follow their belief system. That, IMO, is the crux of the problem. Believe want you want. But keep it in private. And leave the indigenous peoples of the world alone for pete's sake. We've done enough to them already. | ||
| Oldog |
Hey Cochise! Great story, Thank you for.... your witness.... Yes GOD is awesome, In that Christianity was refered to as a cult above [ no offense taken] Some questions if I may, Of the other cults, which ones?  have had their central figure, murdered gruesomly,by the establised church of the time. With the figure Knowing that it was going to happen? then this person is pronounced dead, burried, and 3 days later the body disappers? Then seen live first by their closest asscoiates, next numerous times over 40 days after the murder, did their leader have conversations, give instructions to the followers? were their leaders seen by close to 400 people after death the sightings were usualy groups? were they seen "ascending into heaven?"  some how I don't think that true christianity is a cult, many cults use parts of christianity as a basis of their teaching, this is a great thread, and a side splitting read at times, if this has offended any one, sorry in advance,  I am not ashamed of the one that I call master, I am grateful for his grace, and his love for All of US his children. Oh yeah another reason I have the "user name" here that I have After I chose it I realized that is was an acrostic OL-DOG Our Lives Depend On GOD happy 4th ride safe all .. (Message edited by oldog on July 03, 2006) | ||
| Phatkidwit1eye |
Conan: What gods do you pray to? Subotai: I pray to the four winds... and you? Conan: To Crom... but I seldom pray to him, he doesn't listen. Subotai: [chuckles] What good is he then? Ah, it's just as I've always said. Conan: He is strong! If I die, I have to go before him, and he will ask me, "What is the riddle of steel?" If I don't know it, he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me. That's Crom, strong on his mountain! Subotai: Ah, my god is greater. Conan: [chuckles] Crom laughs at your four winds. He laughs from his mountain. Subotai: My god is stronger. He is the everlasting sky! Your god lives underneath him. | ||
| Tramp |
Incidentally, I sacrificed a gypsy moth caterpillar to the great deity of gasoline, yesterday....and a few hours later I found a crisp new $10- bill on the ground. incontrovertable, I say. | ||
| Cochise |
Scientology and Christianity have some things is common - the attempt to convert, proselytize and judge others who don't follow their belief system. That, IMO, is the crux of the problem. Believe want you want. But keep it in private. And leave the indigenous peoples of the world alone for pete's sake. We've done enough to them already. That's all fine and dandy but if we (Baptists) ever have a orientation video it is seen by everybody with out fear of it getting out, and we won't tell somebody they can either join our Church or they could blow their brains out instead. Some things I like to keep private are: The love I have for my kids, the love I have for my wife. I almost NEVER tell people to try to by a Buell, they will like it, and I would NEVER dare tell people about what Jesus has done in my life.  } | ||
| Tramp |
jon- when ballard, spaking for the church of mormon (for whom i have nothing, i might add) states, very clearly: "We believe in the Jesus of the New Testament, and we believe what the New Testament teaches about Him... we love the LORD Jesus Christ." that makes them chrsitian, and referring to christ as it literally and veritably evidences deification of christ by them. I'm not crazy about them, either, but I'm not about to rewrite their mission statement for them. jon- it's OK to dislike the activities of other christians...it doesn't debase the value of your own beliefs... by no means do you or I have the right to question their christianity, however. I would say the same thing if someoene were to question the christian ethics involved in, say, Cochise' own church and practices. Maybe someoene would say that it's not "christian" for his church to request 10% of parishioners' earnings- and that that somehow devalues their own commitment to christianity. I say BS- If they srevere christ and his teachings, they're christian. period. when you start splitting hairs with a hair-trigger, you wind up with shiites and sunnis killing each other while worshipping the same allah. | ||
| Tramp |
lemme tell you something: for any disagreements that Cochise and I may have, I have to tell you that in the three or so days we spent hanging out last year, he never made any attmepts to 'convert' me or anyone else. not even Paul Teutel or Vinny at OCC....who coulda used some convertin'. Actually, religion never entered a conversation. I could give two shits what god the man (or anyone else for that matter) worships. I think that if/when we're all judged, it'll be for our tolerance of others and their beliefs, anyway, and not on how many rosaries (hey- I'm a recovering catholic) and "hail mary"s we did. My across-the-street neighbors are devout baptists, my neighbors to the right of our place are catholic, to the left are israeli jews, next house down, born-again baptists, next house, once again, israeli jews, next house....more baptists....across from them: druids. seriously. everyone here gets along pretty well, NO ONE tries to convert anyone.... and everyone's sidewalks get shovelled in the winter by whichever of us wakes up first in the morning. As I've said before: I was christened and confimred catholic, then later we attended the (very local) methodist church, and I also attended baptist bible studies at the 'token' negor household a few doors down. regardless of actual strain of faith, I think i learned more about unconditional love from Mrs. hill, the enormous, aunt jemimah-esque 'coloured lady' who ran bible-studies. she also taught us tolerance and forgiveness...as did mr. hill (all 6'6-400lbs) when he 'spoke with me', as a teen , about calling his son a n*gger' on the schoolbus. (he simly explained how hurtful the word is, how he saw his neighbors lynched by folks who used the wrod, when he was a boy, and how it didn't 'fit' my persona, and how he and god both loved me despite it) no- those baptists weren't looking to convert anyone... they operated out of sheer love. | ||
| Bomber |
We are stardust ;-} | ||
| Skyguy |
Ahh Religion, Often a very messy topic. I am very impressed to see people being nice to each other in this topic. That being said................... I am not religious. I am with BubbaBuell with the "opiate of the masses" comment. This is not to say I am an atheist as I am surely not one of those either. I am pretty darn agnostic but try to do the right thing and live a ture and honest life. IMHO any church or religion that is "Exclusionary" or in other words tells people that they have the only path to heaven is simply wrong. Any church or religion that has advocated violence in the name of their God is simply invalid. It is impossible for me to believe that God will not allow people from any religion (or no religion) into heaven if they led good lives and tried to do right by others. The old testament God is full on scary! The new testament God is all nice and sweet. Is there anyone out there explain this mood change to me? I explain it as more words manipulated by men to manipulate other men. I truly envy the "faith" of others. I wish I could toss up my arms when times are hard or bad things are happening around me and say "It is Gods will and it will all work out when I die". I have had some really tough times the last couple of years both financialy and emotionaly. The only thing that gets me through or past it is knowing that time changes everything. I have to admit that at times I get a little pissed off thinking that God ignores me........... If God is the kind of guy that demands I be a christian and get "saved" in order to get a break here on Earth or gain entrance to Heaven then I would rather not hang out with him. Besides, I got saved at a Baptist church when I was a kid isn't that supposed to last a lifetime? Or does one have to renew to gain favor? This post is in no way meant to offend anyone or to slight their faith or religion. | ||
| Skyguy |
DO NOT CLICK ON THIS LINK IF YOU WOULD BE OFFENDED BY FULL ON BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a link to a little indie short film called Timmy's Wish. I thought it was awesome. I think it puts just how nutty the reaction to the Muslum to the cartoons was. If I was an Old Testament fan I would stone the producers and actors to death. http://www.atomfilms.com/af/content/timmys_wish | ||
| Skyguy |
DO NOT CLICK ON THIS LINK IF YOU WOULD BE OFFENDED BY FULL ON BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a link to a little indie short film called Timmy's Wish. I thought it was awesome. I think it puts just how nutty the reaction to the Muslum to the cartoons was. If I was an Old Testament fan I would stone the producers and actors to death. http://www.atomfilms.com/af/content/timmys_wish | ||
| Bubabuell |
Yes, indeed. I was weary about making any comments regarding religion that could be considered offensive. And while I don't subscribe to the beliefs laid out here, I do applaud the adult manner in which offers have refrained from making malicious comments. | ||
| Jon |
Tramp, You are making just the assumption Ballard wants. The things that I and others have said are not made up or opinion, it is established Mormon doctrine and fact. They don't hide it. Look beyond this quote you have, or go find yourself a Mormon and ask him. What makes somebody a Christian is recieving the Christ. That would be THE Christ, not an altered non-God or sub-God Christ. The Christ of the Bible. But remember...they have to throw out the bible because of this very reason. That is why they have the Book of Mormon. It is the Bible's replacement. | ||
| Tramp |
???? same could be said about lutheranism, by catholics, or about catholicism, by russian orthodoxy. all are christians. the mormons consider, and refer to, Christ as "lord". now you're saying that because they consider "Christ", as opposed to "THE Christ", as "lord", they're not really christians? | ||
| Jon |
Lot's of religions out there. Lot's of religions based upon man's assumptions and fears and desires. Some religions take the Bible as their show piece and to add some symbol of authority to their doctrine, but they don't follow the instructions in the book. Look at the Episopal church today. Homosexuality is not only not opposed, it is welcomed and practised outright by the leadership. Not biblical at all. All religions err. Faith exercised according to a God given foundation is the anti-religion. But before we digress, study Mormonism apart from a Mormon apologetics website. | ||
| Glitch |
But before we digress, study Mormonism apart from a Mormon apologetics website. Digress?!  Digress?!  You and Tramp have started your own digression, the thread is about Keith Code and/or Scientology! Not coming down on either of you, just thought it was funny to digress from the digression. Carry on, this thread ain't for the serious anyhow... |
