| Author | Message | ||
     Skyguy |
I decided to quit teaching after ten years of doing it. The stress associated became less and less worth it. Think of it this way, there are 40,000+ fighter pilots in the U.S. But only 4,000 Paraglider pilots. Who do you think has the biggest egos? Teaching some of them was quite a challenge. I often had to set up situations that would wakeup a pilot to reality without placing them in danger. I have never had a tougher gig. I finally decided to just give people tandem rides and quit teaching. Nowhere near enough cash in teaching and selling gear to justify the stress. | ||
| Buellfighter |
No, he has no financial responsibility but he should have a moral responsibility to take care of his girlfriend. | ||
| Lowflyer |
I disagree. He has financial responsibility too. Whether she chose to impose upon him is another story. I 100% guarantee that if she filed suit, it wouldn't even make it to court. He would settle immediately on the advice of counsel. It wouldn't even matter if they had a huge argument whereby she refused to wear protective gear. The only way he would not be held legally liable is if he convinced her to sign a waiver. The waiver would then be subject to defeat in court. It would be defeated too; on the grounds that the rider was obviously behaving in a reckless manner and not observing due diligence in the operation of the motorcycle. | ||
| Skyguy |
I have spent a couple of months in Europe doing all kinds of dangerous things (and paying companies for the privlage) I never signed a waiver and never wrote my name on anything. I went canyoning and while standing on top of a 100 foot waterfall preparing to repel down it the guide says "Okay this goes though here(figure eight), you want to go down let it go (rope) a little bit, you want to go all the way down let it go. Yes? That was the entire repeling course.......... I did a few other things that basicly went the same way. I met up with a French barrister in the Roo bar in Chamonis and asked him how the hell they were able to get away with no waivers. He replied "in the case of the waterfall had you fallen and gotten hurt and sued the judge would ask you "So the guide he pushed you from the rock?" No? GET OUT! They have this awesome sense of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. In the case of the waterfall they have the opinion that if I was unsure how to do it I should have asked more questions befroe trying. That gal knew that falling down in flip flops and shorts would hurt. She made the decision to go riding anyway. HER FAULT!! I would NEVER let a passenger ride like that behind me. Oh wait I DON"T TAKE PASSENGERS EVER!!!!! I only would ride with a gal that has her own bike. But thats just me. | ||
| Lowflyer |
This is not Europe. It was SoCal, I believe. Fortunately for most people, I'm not stating opinion. The fact is that the law in this country recognizes the operator of the vehicle as the sole responsible party. Done deal. HIS FAULT!! I'm not saying that we don't have frivolous lawsuits in the US. We have an imperfect system, but I love it. If I didn't, I'd do what my wife's dipshit uncle did and move to France. | ||
| Naustin |
England, SoCal, or France - its too bad they didn't die as far as I'm concerned.... I only hope that next time they go around a corner like that on the wrong side of the stripe, there's a fully loaded logging truck with no brakes waiting to smear their irresponsible asses over the asphalt like so much lasagna... (Message edited by naustin on June 06, 2006) | ||
| Sleez |
lowflyer, don't think that is entirely true. in a car at least, (in CA) if a passenger is over 18 and isn't wearing a seatbelt, the passenger gets the ticket, not the driver! | ||
| Lowflyer |
You're right. I should have said 'in most states.' CA is a bit...ahem...progressive? | ||
| Lowflyer |
I suppose if a child is not in a car seat, the child gets the ticket too.  | ||
| Hattori_hanzo |
"Unfortunately the riders did go down, but they walked away in pretty good shape for not having any gear on. The girl hurt her knee pretty bad, but aside from that they were just a little road rashed." There's a 12 page thread over at advrider.com about these pics. The general consensus is the owner of the site is downplaying the accident. Look at this close up of her toes about to grind pavement. I'm thinking "a little road rashed" is a huge understatement.  | ||
| Eboos |
Do you have a link to that thread? I wasn't able to find it. | ||
| Hattori_hanzo |
Link: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143014 | ||
| Swampy |
Nope, She's hobbling around Walmart looking for a new set of toes. | ||
| Curtyd |
Flip Flops, I used to call them Fla. Motorcycle Boots in my younger and reckless days. I see it the same as the No-Helmet crowd. They are usually all dressed up with their massive engineer boots, sturdy denim, leather vests or chaps and all their fragile noggin hanging out in the wind. She'll probably live thru this one. A lot more worn out and with a painful education, but head injuries? Those are tough to rebound from. And anyway at least I don't restrict my family to a close casket funeral if I always wear my full face. There are lots of risks associated with this avocation, I know that better than these two, but I had to go down a few times to get that education. | ||
| Curtyd |
This is an amusing coincidence. After writing the previous post, I went out to walk the dog. At end of the street zips by a black/gold XB12S, with rider in sandals, shorts, t-shirt and matching ball cap. Our fraternity is not immune to poor choices. Not me, I almost always wear my Aerostitch Jacket, always my full face helmet (but it is lifting chinbar NOLAN 100E, so who knows if it won't just explode on impact), NEVER flip flops or sandals, only sneakers sometimes and sometimes my shorts on these blistering hot summer Fla. days. On those days I find the risk acceptable. Other riders find the risks associated with dressing down nearly always acceptable. I do think the driver has a responsibility to his rider, but heck this guy in the pics above probably just NEVER has a girl on the back, so he took her any way she wanted to come to him. LIVE (hopefully) and LEARN. | ||
| Oldog |
 I only hope that next time they go around a corner like that on the wrong side of the stripe, there's a fully loaded logging truck with no brakes waiting to smear their irresponsible asses over the asphalt like so much lasagna... The act of carrying a passenger dressed like that and then hot dogging for the camera is the height of irresponcible, THE ABOVE COMMENT IS HENIOUS AND UN CALLED FOR, SHAME ON YOU .... THE PILOT ABOVE SHOULD PAY FOR HIS PASSENGERS MEDICAL ATTENTION, AND CONSIDER TAKING UP SOME OTHER ACTIVITY THAT IS LESS HAZARDOUS.  Perhaps Basket weaving. As it is appearent that his(?) judgment is lacking. We can only hope that the contribution to the geneome by those individuals will not be of that caliber. | ||
| Lowflyer |
Oldog, Posts like that should just be ignored; not quoted. The author doesn't deserve the acknowledgment. Curtyd, My Caberg Justissimo modular helmet has decapitated me twice, burnt my house down, drained my bank account, and it got my sister pregnant. Next time I'll know better.  | ||
| Sleez |
hey lowflyer, read more thoroughly please! "over 18"!!! | ||
| Lowflyer |
I saw the 18 and chose to ignore it for the sake of sarcasm; hence the 'bashing' smiley emoticon. | ||
| Sleez |
gotcha!!! no foul!!! sorry. | ||
| Sandblast |
This issue is so simple that I cant believe we are discussing it. The passenger on that motorcycle is a female, I repeat, woman. Obviously she needs to be told what to wear, how to hold on, etc. You wouldnt just throw your dog on your back seat and ride away would you? Im just kidding.  | ||
| Buellfighter |
Orrrr is he !!!!!!!!!!!!  | ||
| Hattori_hanzo |
You wouldnt just throw your dog on your back seat and ride away would you? Funny you should mention that...from the same photographer, on the same website, and on the same weekend as our unfortunate couple...  | ||
| Chellem |
I think someone hit it on the head when they mentioned the legal system in AMERICA. I think even out in the midwest people are more likely to take personal responsibility. There's no fence on the Grand Canyon, ya know what the tour guides say? "Don't get too close!" They don't tie you down, they don't build barricades, they don't take care of you at all. You get too close, you might blow off. And when that happens, it sucks. I'm a person. Passenger or rider, I'm a person, capable of making my own decisions. Now, the rider can certainly choose to say to me, no, you may NOT ride on my bike. And I would respect that. But I don't rely on ANYONE else to actually make decisions for me, so I have no one to blame but myself at the outcomes. I understand, LEGALLY, the rider is responsible, and that people should, I guess, sue whenever life doesn't go their way. I'm talking about ethically, rationally, ADULTS making PERSONAL DECISIONS should not blame other people when things don't work out. That's all. I guess I'm in the minority as far as this view, as it appears most people are blaming the guy who obviously was expecting the day to turn out differently. I disagree with her chosen riding "gear". But I just don't blame him for her apparel. I do blame him for his obvious lack of riding skills, but if she had made better choices, she may have more toes now. Maybe he did suggest she wear something else. Maybe she told him that he wasn't her real mother and to stop treating her like a little girl. That's what I probably would have said. Life is about consequences. MY decision, MY consequence. And I like it that way. | ||
| Lowflyer |
Choices and consequences: HE is the ONLY person that could have prevented her from riding on HIS bike. HIS decision trumped hers no matter how you look at it. The consequence of HIS decision to ALLOW her on the bike dressed for the beach evidently cost her some toes and skin. Her decision to get on the bike like that is certainly a contributing factor, but ultimately it was irrelevant because HE could have stopped the whole sequence of events just before she swung a leg over. This is not standing at the rim of the grand canyon. We are talking about a passenger on the back of a motorcycle. The passenger is a captive audience and at the mercy of the person with the handlebars. Yes, they can make decisions for themselves, but those decisions are secondary to decisions made by the rider in almost all cases. | ||
| Chellem |
He is not the ONLY person who could have prevented her from riding his bike. SHE could have. There is another decision. She could have chosen NOT TO GET ON HIS BIKE. She could have chosen to DRESS APPROPRIATELY. SHE could have stopped the whole series of events by going to the mall that afternoon. So I think your argument is just as irrelevant as you seem to think mine is. HIS decision does not TRUMP hers. She's a person too. A full grown person. With her own mind, and her own choices, and her own capability of making decisions. Why should his trump hers? Yes yes, legally, I know, most US states say it does. But that's never been my argument. There are a lot of laws I disagree with. This is one of them. Passengers are at "the mercy of" the people they CHOOSE to ride with. I choose to ride with VERY few people. I do NOT hop on the back of just anyone's bike. If I DO ride with someone, I dress appropriately. ALL CHOICES I AM MAKING ALL BY MYSELF, PASSENGER OR NOT, just like a grown up. I agree, once I'm on the bike, as a passenger I have very little control over the situation. That's why I'm very careful with whom I put myself in that situation. Again, my choice. My choice would also be to wear, at least, jeans and boots. But hey, that's just me. I'm not the end-all, be-all of what's right and wrong. Free will and all. Do you know how condescending you sound? Jeez, like she's just some mindless automoton who can't think for herself. Oh, could you help me dress for work tomorrow? It might rain. Please. We all have choices in life. She made several bad ones. But they were hers to make. That's all I'm saying. | ||
| Glitch |
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| Hattori_hanzo |
I remember that one too...at the Gap, no? Looks like a bit too hot, a little target fixation, and oooops! Trashed Harley! | ||
| Buellin_ri |
Is it bad that I am laughing at that last pic? Hope he is not hurt, but that is to much for me. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
So that's why they call them crash bars. His front wheel is locked up in the second picture. all of the weight is on the chrome. |
