| Author | Message | ||
     Diablobrian |
Hello. I'm getting aggravated here. I've been trying to keep a level head and be reasonable about my recen experience at "Destination Daytona". I recently received an email back from Bruce Rossmeyer's lawyer that impugnes my integrity. Those that know me, even in passing, or indirectly (like on a message board) know that I don't take that lightly. Anyway here is my first email to them. General: Contact Us submitted on 4/7/2006 at 11:59:58 PM First Name: Brian Last Name: Jones Email: XXXXXXX Your Comments Here: Hello, I was near destination last bike week. I was not at your business because I was informed, by your less than professional parking attendants, that there was NO handicapped parking. I am disabled and had my placard with me. however, my scooter will not work on sand, and I cannot push it to the pavement from the place they wanted me to park. When I asked to talk to management they said sure. Pay park and go inside to talk to you. Really understanding. I asked them to get someone on the radio or phone. They flat refused. I enjoyed visiting during biketoberfest last year, but lost the use of my left leg since then. I was made aware recently that I do have legal recourse in this. A friend I met at the VA told me that what happened to me was illegal under title 2 of the ADA. I do not feel it would be right to pursue such an action without talking to someone first. I tried calling, several times but keep getting put on terminal hold, or just hung up on. I am not a rude, or impatient person. I just feel that there are a fair number of disabled bikers out there and not all of them can get around well enough to hike a hundred yards across sand to enjoy events at your place of business. Being on a fixed income I have to plan my expendatures and vacations very carefully. It's a shame to travel half way across the country, only to find out that you cannot go to one of the places you enjoyed most during your last vacation. I met Jesse Rooke and Roland Sands there last year. I was hoping to see them and others this year, but that did not happen. Thank you for your Time, Brian Jones (contact info omitted) Pretty concise and polite I thought. Notice I never asked for anything other than for the problem to be fixed. I made mention of the fact that their actions were in fact illegal, and under what statutes, but that was not stated as a threat, but more to establish the fact I have a credible complaint. A month after sending various emails answering questions about what the people were wearing, hair color, accent, etc and assurances they were investigating the matter I got the brush-off with this e-mail from their General Counsel, Dean Pepe: }Dear Mr. Jones: The people working the travel plaza lot were from temporary employment agencies. The attendants indicate that there was a designated handicapped area along the back of the lot closest to the Destination Daytona property. The workers offered people with handicap cards to park in that area as it was closest to the festivities and people who needed assistance were given it. One worker I talked to even assisted a paralyzed boy from his vehicle to our property. Handicapped people were not charged. It's odd that the worker you encountered did not tell you that or provide the same assistance. We're sorry that you didn't get to our property as you had planned and that you feel that you weren't treated properly. If you want to contact me before you come to the area next time, we can make sure you are directed or escorted to the handicapped parking located directly in front of the store. Is there anything else you want or that I can provide at this time? Dean Pepe General Counsel Daytona Harley-Davidson Bottom line they are claiming I'm defaming their wonderful temp attendants that are obviously all eagle scouts and would never (admit to) do(ing) anything that might get them fired from what is probably the best paying job of the year (bike week and biketoberfest) I'm terribly aggravated because all I was looking for was assurances that the problem would be fixed for future events. Denying there was ever a problem is calling me a liar and perpetuates the problem. I don't intend to return to any of Mr. Rossmeyer's dealerships, for anything, any way. I've already had enough of his hospitality to last me a lifetime. I know that I'm just a "drop in the bucket" and that there will be people lined up to take my place. I just thought that there would be a place for a little common courtesy in the "worlds largest H-D Dealership". I Guess I was mistaken. Bruce Rossmeyer doesn't need people like me around. Or my money. Maybe he doesn't need yours either.} | ||
| Hammer71 |
Thanks for the info. I was planning on going there next week while visiting my kids, change of plans now. | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
I do not feel it would be right to pursue such an action without talking to someone first. I'm going to say 1st that it sucks that you had the problem you had. But the above says to me "I'm going to sue unless you manage to talk me out of it". That pretty much forced them to respond through council whose 1st job is to never admit anything. They did apologize- ok, it wasn't exactly warm and fuzzy- and said they would make sure you are properly taken care of next time. I do understand your anger after going back and forth for a month, but considering you threatened to sue them (from their prospective) what did you expect them to say? Go again and milk them for all the freebie's and special attention they will give you. I bet they will roll out the red carpet for you! | ||
| Diablobrian |
That's the problem, all I wanted from them was an assurance that people would not run into the same sort of crap that I did. I was not trying to make veiled threats. I was stating that I did not want to get involved in legal action. People read way too much into things that are stated in plain english. If I had wanted to sue them, I would not have let them see it coming until there was a process server on their doorstep. I wanted to talk to people, but as I indicated, if you aren't on "the list" you don't get through to the manager, or Bruce. You get put on hold. I don't want to twist their arm for free stuff. All I wanted was fair access to the facility like everyone else. Not more or better, just equal. Like a lot of other people with physical disabilities, I don't want a hand-out, but sometimes a hand-up is appreciated. Does that make sense, or is my perspective screwed up? They didn't apologize, they just said that if I was to contact them before returning they would get me to the right place. They said they were sorry I didn't make it to the property. I'm sure that's true. They would have loved to have had the opportunity to get the money I had in my wallet. I shouldn't need to make reservation to go there, right? I'm serious, I'd like to know the answers to these questions. Thanks for your input Scott. I really do appreciate it. | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
You're welcome and thank you for understanding that I am in support of you and your situation, but played the devil's advocate as to how they might have perceived the situation. We all know how out of control law suits are in this country, so the fact that you mentioned that you "could" sue was enough to make them, as business owners, "circle the wagons". I would bet that, despite their defensive position, that they will make sure it never happens again and since that was your goal, you have succeeded!! | ||
| Oldog |
another object lesson about outsourcing sorry to hear about this Brian.. ( What Scott Said) | ||
| Diablobrian |
I was thinking about "they will make sure it never happens again " I have to wonder. If that's the case why would I need to contact them to be sure I was taken care of? | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
To prevent any possibility of another screw up by a temporary employee (murphy's law). I believe them when they say other handicapped persons were helped. Stuff happens! It's the same reason I tell my customers to call ME directly once they have already had a problem. Why go from bad to worse? I'm also sure they want to make it up to you and give you, in particular, the red carpet treatment.  | ||
| Samc |
I don't see their response as impugning your integrity at all; they apologized without admitting wrongdoing, a reasonable response to a threat to sue; and offered a future remedy. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Like I said Samc my perspective could be skewed. There is some emotion involved. Scott, you may be right. In the future I may re-consider my decision to not go back, I am all about second chances. I just need to let things settle a bit, or they won't get a fairsecond chance. I'm still pretty ...uptight about the whole thing. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
People read way too much into things that are stated in plain english. Since I am now currently working in a position where anything that could be construed as leading to the possiblity of even if in what is plain English to you or I, must be taken as an impending lawsuit, especially when speaking of a business and a writ from ADA rules and regs. The fact that you attempted multiple times to speak with someone on the subject and used the words I do not feel it would be right to pursue such an action without talking to someone first adds even more fuel to the litigary fear fire. Notice the use of the word 'fear' in that last line. Unfortunately, people of less character then yourself have jumped all over such instances to cost businesses quite a large sum of money in the past. It is even possible, that you were only one of several people who ran into this person of ill manners and that one of the others has in fact stepped forth with litigation proceedings. That would make your polite, concise, informative email even more dangerous to them as it could be taken as the preceedings of a class action discrimination suit. A suggestion if I may, politely send him a return response thanking him for his time in this matter, and that your only concern in persuing this issue to the point that you have is to make the dealership aware of a greivious incident which did in fact take place, and that it is reassuring that by his words that it is good to understand that they wish to make certain that the same does not happen in the future, that however, as he is a third party to this incident, you would really appreciate hearing from someone in management from the dealership so that all involved can understand that this is a matter of personal feeling, and not one of a latigeous nature, and that if would be more comforting to you to have simply received good customer service from the dealership rather then the lengthy run around you feel that your attempts at correcting/making aware of a bad situation were treated to. If you do follow through with such a letter, CC: it to the dealership contact email as well as the attorney. That way the dealership can see what kind of egg they smeared on their face. Let me know what comes of this if you do send a follow up response. | ||
| Buellgirlie |
sorry to hear of your troubles. that really sucks. i can see merit to both sides of the story and hope that it will work out. D | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
If you still want to pursue it, and if it matters any, I agree with wycked. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Well stated Wycked. This is the kind of insight I was looking for. Thank you. I realize that I am too close to it and a little perspective can help shed light on faults in my own logic. I think I will follow your advice, as it seems to be the most mature path forward from here. I just wish i could have talked to someone in management on the phone way back in march. It would have made it easier for me because this kind of thing festers and makes you more bitter about it the longer you have to wait for resolution. I'm probably more bent about it now than I was then. | ||
| Hattori_hanzo |
The fear of an impending lawsuit may have put them on the defensive. Their legal team probably told management not to talk to you after a certain point to reduce the risk of something else being used against them. I think Wycked's course of action is spot on. On the note of why these legal teams are always wary...did you see this? http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-suit11may11,0,7425075.story?coll=la-home -headlines | ||
| Diablobrian |
I never spoke to anyone other than the minions that answered the phone. All I said to them is "I'd like to speak with the manager". They would then ask my name. I'd give it and then they'd say please hold. then there would be either a click and dial tone. Or I would stay on hold for many minutes, and then hear a click and dial tone. They had no way of knowing what I was calling about, unless they are psychic. If they were psychic then they should have known I'm not the type to just give up and go away if you ignore me long enough. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Wow, I did not see that. I know that I was probably a little clumsy in my wording. I was trying to relate to them that despite encouragement from others to pursue legal action I was not interested in that sort of thing. I guess it's just the way I was brought up. Sure I could always use more money, but I don't see squeezing businesses for cash as a way to get it. It's terrible that businesses have to live in fear of people spilling coffee on themselves, and other equally ridiculous crap. Thats one of the reasons everything is so expensive these days. I never wanted to be part of the problem. I was trying to help be part of the solution. Where people talk to each other when they have a problem, not serve them with subpoenas. Are those days gone? | ||
| Twowheeldream |
they were gone a long time ago... there are a few people left that stick with that philosophy, but even they err on the side of caution | ||
| Diablobrian |
That is too sad for words. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Well I decided to send a reply to the dealership and to Mr. Pepe as I was encouraged to do. Here is the text of the message I wrote. Mr. Pepe, I can understand how we got off on the wrong foot here. I tried many times in the month between the time of the incident and the time I wrote my first email to contact one of the managers of the dealership on the phone. This always led to either being hung up on either immediately or after a long wait on hold. If I could have gotten through once things could have been settled quite simply. All I want, and all I ever wanted, is to be sure that events like the ones that happened to me will not happen again. I know that tone and inflection are easily lost via email. This has led to more than one serious misunderstanding. I appreciate your efforts on my behalf, but I'm not looking for more or better treatment, just equal and reasonable. I've been told that attitude is foolish in this day and age, but that is just me being me. In closing; thanks for your help, just please make sure that this sort of thing doesn't happen again. That's all I'm asking. Brian Jones Thank you all for your input and suggestions. It really helped me to get my head around things. I hope that I have gotten through to them and that future visitors to their establishment will not have an experience like mine. I can only hope. | ||
| Kdan |
Let's just find the little parking attendant-temp-wussy and kick his ass. Screw being nice. | ||
| Kaudette |
I think the second letter should help wonders. This reminds me of a story (true) of an acquantance of mine who has a 15 year old paralyzed son (waist down) who went to NYC for Christmas. This kid has been through about as much as one could imagine and is a big hockey buff (still goes skating 3 times a week in a sled type ride at the local rink, so he wanted to go the the rink downtown (under the big tree). He gets there with his father and as they were about to put his "sled on skates" onto the ice and get him strapped in, here comes the security guards... sorry man, you can't go there - only "valids" get access... then the fireworks light off and this father starts talking discrimination - then yelling discrimination to the crowd... then the crowd gets into it and you have half the rink and crowd cheering discrimination. finally the guys from upstairs come down and guess what! they clear the rink and this 15year old (12 or 13 at the time) gets 3 victory laps around the rink, under the big christmas tree with the crowd cheering him on every time around. Probably the next best thing to carrying the Stanley Cup in MSG for the kid. Then they got the invite for a nice steak dinner with the manager of the place and friendly goodbye that evening. | ||
| Diablobrian |
That is a great story Kaudette! To think New Yorkers have such a...hard.. reputation. I got a really quick response to my last email, I really hope they are sincere. Mr. Jones: Thanks for the follow-up email. I will strive to make certain that those with handicapped placards are informed of the available handicap parking areas here at the store. We will also endeavor to improve phone communications especially during events. Thank you for your email. Dean G. Pepe General Counsel Daytona Harley-Davidson | ||
| Lake_bueller |
Brian.... Bear with me while I play "Devils Advocate #2".... As you may or may not know, I work as the operations manager for a large professional sports organization. And we get letters like your all the time. There is one glaring issue with your first letter to Destination Daytona. I'm not sure you know the entire extent of the law. Under ADA regulations, you must provide X-number of handicap parking spaces for your establishment. This is based on the size & scope of the building (aka total capacity, fire codes, etc). On certain occasions (Bike Week, game days, etc), the business may "run out" of handicapped parking. Unfortunately, that's life. By throwing out statutes and whatnot, you automatically put them on the defensive. And their general counsel responded in a like manner. Sorry if that sounds harsh. I'd be more than happy to expound further if it's needed. Dennis | ||
| Diablobrian |
It's all good. The only problem is they didn't say handicapped parking is full. They said there wasn't any, they went on to say that there was only general parking, and if I wanted to complain I could pay to park then go inside. Believe me I've been to businesses and government offices that had a full house in the handicapped spots. Ever been to the VA hospital? Or Wal-mart on a weekend? Like I said all I was trying to do was establish the credibility of my complaint, and that I did not want to go to court over this thing. I get it. They didn't see it that way. point taken. Like I said, they don't know me, but it's not for lack of effort on my part. |
