| Author | Message | ||
     Ceejay |
This seems to be the way our country (US) is heading, "that ain't working, lets make up another law" goes against the whole system doesn't it? If we'd enforce the ones we have, make people accountable for thier actions, I think that many necessary changes would take care of themselves on many fronts... | ||
| Arbalest |
This isn't about TAXES. There is a procedure for an immigrant to enter the U.S. legally. Those that do not, and use social services such as welfare and healthcare, deplete the pool of taxes that pay for those services, thus depriving U.S. citizens of those services. Round up the illegals and send them home. Just a note, my politics are far left. See, there are some things we can agree on. | ||
| Smokedaddy |
Some of you that have never been specifically to Arizona need to get a clue. The illegal (notice the word ILLEGAL) Mexicans have nearly taken over Arizona. It is destroying our economy, high paying construction jobs, heath care cost have sky rocketed, incredible insurance rates, higher crime rate, poorer education. …… you name it. We need to stop “importing poverty” and cheap labor that benefits only the pockets of those businesses that hire them. Check out the Cochise County documentary if you can find it. Of course some of you will say it’s slanted. Time to pull your head out of your rectum. An over whelming number of businesses here knowingly hire illegal Mexican’s. Just one example, my cousin keeps the books at one of the larger multi-million dollar job site trailer manufactures here in Phoenix. My other cousin (who just got out of prison) works there too. There are 300 illegal Mexicans working there. He rips 2x6’s to specific lengths all day long, out in the boiling hot summer sun, no shade and no water for less than minimum wage. Every payday a black Explorer (big wheels, super dark tinted windows, boom box, yada, yada) pulls up to the parking lot and sets up business. They ever so slightly roll down the window, accept paychecks from the illegal Mexicans, take their 10% cut and leave. Oh, nearly all of our housing construction jobs have been lost to illegal Mexicans, except for lead men etc., and 100% of the once union construction job market is completely history (that’s even with a huge pay cuts that were taken). All the construction trades took a 25% and 40% pay cuts nearly 15 years ago. Housing cost have not decreased in the slightest, instead they have sky rocketed even though the wages have decreased radically. Both my brother and sister are teachers. Oh, my next door neighbor is a High School principle too. You wouldn’t believe the stories I hear on a daily basis. Oh, both of them have quit teaching (after 30 years) specifically because of the illegal Mexican’s situation. It’s pretty weird when you can take a drive in Phoenix and the metropolitan area and see billboards, street signs (provided by the City of Phoenix), voting literature and advertisements all in Spanish. My daughter-in-law works in the I/C neo-natal unit at a local Hospital. She told me nearly ALL of the babies she takes care of are illegal Mexican’s. The emergency rooms of nearly ALL of our hospitals are completely FULL on a “daily basis” with illegal Mexicans. Arizonans are paying heavily for our generosity and the illegal are taking advantage of our kindness. Once your community is over run with illegal immigrants you catch on. Of course then it will be to late. -SD: | ||
| Chasespeed |
Yep, I am living bakc in South Texas again, and its the same thing here. Funny thing is, I saw the news yesterday before i left work, and shrugged(no one wants to hear my opinion anyway)... And later was wondering why half teh damn city was closed...duh...forgot... As was noted earlier, most of us are either immigrants, or decendents of... BUT, that is not the issue... the issue is ILLEGALS... people(not necesarily here), keeptp clouding the issue... also saw soemthign else yesterday on teh news... The English being the official language of teh US is DISCRIMINATION against non-english speaking people.... next time I am in Italy, I am going to mention that Italian being their official language is discrimination against those who dont speak italian... You know what? They'll say, dont like it? Leave... Let that one simmer..... Chase | ||
| Bomber |
Chase -- good point on the language issue, certainly -- equally applicable to almost any other nation on the planet me, I'm proud to be part of a country that is BETTER than Italy ;-} | ||
| Marijane0569 |
This was given to me and I agree with it. Enjoy. I apolgise that it is so long. "MJ" Truth OF Consequences! This letter sent to Senator Frist from a retired border patrol agent. He has more common sense than all the … being spewed from the Senate, with the exception of a few sensible representatives. Dear Senator Frist: There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about illegal aliens, particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran aliens. 1. Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. Americans are very vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S. citizen. Mexicans, and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home countries while obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as employment, medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing and free education for their offspring. Their main attraction is employment and their loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits of American residence without paying the price. 2. There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens are doing jobs that Americans can't take and still support their families. Illegal aliens take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home, share expenses and send money to their home country. There are no jobs that Americans won't do for a decent wage. 3. Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home. They are NOT homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their home countries. They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the more than 20 billion dollars sent out of the country each year by illegal aliens. These illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in violation of the law and therefore assumed the risk of detection and deportation. Those who brought their alien children assumed the responsibility and risk on behalf of their children. 4. Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal aliens constitute less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and benefits for lawful U.S. residents. 5. This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million native born Americans. While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by immigrants (legal immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this planet that was not settled by immigrants at one time or another. 6. The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are not immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful immigrants every year than the rest of the world combined. 7. There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". Hispanics are white, brown, black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The so-called "Hispanic vote" is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the Hispanic vote is a dead end. 8. Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have resented the United States. During World War I Mexico allowed German Spies to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S. During World War II Mexico allowed the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold War Mexico allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, new Mexico and Texas. (I KNOW THIS IS TRUE.) If you don't believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written for their schoolchildren. 9. Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better life, there are 6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those live on less than one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to break the law and sneak into America, then let's allow those one billion to come to America and we'll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight. Besides, there are 280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I'll bet Bill Gates and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat be full? Since when is wanting a better life a good reason to trash another nation? 10. There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives, senior citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would gladly take jobs at a decent wage. 11. Is it racist to want secure borders. What is racist about wanting secure borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting people to sneak into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal aliens, senior citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about race that entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and take the American Dream without paying the price? For about four decades American politicians have refused to secure our borders and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There has already been riots in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There will be more. You, as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who have stolen into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S. citizens or to offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The interest will be steep either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning. Do you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will you bow to the wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to remain here? There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this year, again in 2008 and yet again in 2010. We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators and thieves. David J. Stoddard U.S. Border Patrol (RET) Hereford, Arizona | ||
| Kurosawa |
In case anyone's still singin' that ragged old tune about illegals taking jobs Americans don't want anyway, check this, from http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/01/dobbs.immigrantprotests/index.html "The meat packers are confirming what we know," says University of Maryland economics professor Peter Morici, "and that is that this large group of illegal aliens in the United States is lowering the wage rate of semiskilled workers, people who are high school dropouts or high school graduates with minimal training." In fact, a meat-packing job paid $19 an hour in 1980, but today that same job pays closer to $9 an hour, according to the Labor Department. That's entirely consistent with what we've been reporting -- that illegal aliens depress wages for U.S. workers by as much as $200 billion a year in addition to placing a tremendous burden on hospitals, schools and other social services. | ||
| Marijane0569 |
I agree w/ chase Don't like it? Leave. It is just that simple. | ||
| Slaughter |
The illegals CAN get citizenship - it's a well-defined process which does not need changing. You enter the country legally, apply after satisfying the requirements. Buddy of mine (Chinese) is ANGRY beyond words because he "couldn't" bring his wife in on a residence visa unless he did so illegally. She's here now (came in legally) but feels she has take a back seat to those who came here DESPITE the fact that it was illegal for them I don't think anybody has any issues with LEGAL immigrants. I wanted to go to Australia after getting out of high school because I had met some of the National Soaring team down in Texas in the 1970 internationals. They came to CA after the contest and said that if I came to Waikerie (South Australia) they'd put me up during the season. I couldn't get a residence visa and as my Father explained, I couldn't get a resindence visa because I had no skills to offer and a residence visa meant that I would also be able to collect their benefits. Did I feel oppressed? Victimized? Less-than-equal? NO - that was the way it was, they had laws that were put place for obvious reasons. | ||
| Slaughter |
We once had an economy based on slave labor. I'd like to recommend that instead of slave labor, that we be ALLOWED and ENCOURAGED to exploit the workers in this class - that we NOT be allowed to pay them more than $10 per hour since they're in effect "volunteering" to be an underpaid class of laborers. Further, they should not be allowed more money per hour without leaving the country and applying for re-admission as permanent resident alien. Just wait the way things are going, it won't be long and they WILL be expecting (demanding?) more money once they become "legal" The argument that they are "assets" to society and are "contributing" - yet are "exploited" - seems silly since they're also demanding that we allow them to be here BECAUSE they are "exploited?" Nope - this IS a slippery slope. Won't be long before we're all hearing how a family of 6 cannot survive on $10 per hour... this is just pi**ing me off. | ||
| Tom_b |
marijane0569: Great post! That letter about sums how I feel about the illegal problem. The only thing I would like to see is SEVERE consequences for companies that hire illegals.What I mean by severe is complete shutdown of the company for every illegal found working. If a national company, shut down the whole company , not just a branch. These b/s fines that are levied against companies are just that, compared to the profit made and taxes being dodged by illegal workers. I also agree that most illegals don't want to be citizens and take a pay cut and have to pay taxes, then they couldn't send as much money home. | ||
| Ryker77 |
Sean "And my statement, in case you missed it, was not that the Americans would not do those jobs. It was that they would not do it for the same pay. It's capitalism, and it's a good economic system. But as CeeJay mentioned, once you start hiring Americans to do all of the jobs, then you start increasing the salary, which in turn raises the cost of the product. It's just like the exportation of jobs to Asia - they have cheaper labor; therefore, their products are generally cheaper" First off there is not much difference between cheap illegal labor and 1800's slave labor. Only difference is the location that the live-- not on a plantation. Second - it has be PROVEN that the cost of goods would NOT increase that much. Mowhawk carpet that is getting sued (my town) has had HUGE profits since the use of illegal cheap labor. The cost of carpet has NOT decreased just that the PROFIT some rich old guys get is INCREASED. | ||
| Smokedaddy |
Just an opinion of course, I think we should send a crystal clear message to those currently running our country at election time, and NOT vote for ANYONE currently holding an office, regardless of party. They’ve screwed up this country long enough. It’s time for a “clean sweep”. The illegal Mexican's have every social and nearly every government/state benefit or service that a legal immigrant or citizen is offered, without consequences, and we pay for the free ride. They wave their flag and thumb their nose at the law, not much different than the gangs that run some of our communities. They believe that somehow we owe them something because they are willing to work for sub standard wages, while those that hire them live a good life in comparison. They don’t mind living packed like sardines as they have grown up in that environment. They reject our values, refuse to speak our language and have the audacity to demand a boycott. The illegals, all illegals, have no rights, none, nada!. That’s what I thought I fought for when I defending my country, not the rights of those here illegally. It's time to put HUGE fines on those hiring illegals, then they will go back home. Those hiring illegals should have their picture posted in the newspaper and on a internet website. If you have work done on your home, you should ask the contractor if they hire illegals and have them put it in writing. Get off your fat ass(s) and cut your own damn lawn. Time for a wake up call, -SD: (Message edited by Smokedaddy on May 02, 2006) | ||
| Kdan |
I think we should send a crystal clear message to those currently running our country at election time, and NOT vote for ANYONE currently holding an office, regardless of party. They’ve screwed up this country long enough. It’s time for a “clean sweep”. Wasn't that what y'all did in 2000? Howzabout don't elect any politicians or anyone with a law degree? | ||
| Americanmadexb |
illegal's say if they werent here, we would be crippeled? To tell you the truth, it hurt us so bad, hell i didnt even know it happened till today! I think we ran just fine without them! I dont have a probelm with mexicans, i have a few good friends. BUT, they got in here the RIGHT way, not jumping there low riders over the fense. I know damn well they wouldnt like me over there living, taking away there .10 an hour jobs. | ||
| Marijane0569 |
Y'all know that a few years ago the "klan" decided to take up post on a ten mile strech of the U.S. / Mexican border, they let it be know that they were there. Not one person tried to cross in that ten miles. The Mexican pres. demanded that we take them off of the border because they were "scaring" his citizens. I say put the "klan" back on the border, maybe then we could get some good use from them. My opin. "MJ" | ||
| Mikej |
"The only thing I would like to see is SEVERE consequences for companies that hire illegals.What I mean by severe is complete shutdown of the company for every illegal found working." So let's see if I got this right, you would want me put out of work if the company I work for has an illegal working for it? Gee, thanks. What about illegals with false identification, false SSN cards, false driver's licenses, all making them "appear" legal to a hiring company? Would you still shut down the whole company? I do know of several companies that routinely check out identification of new hires, and routinely fires them up to months later if any discrepancies are found. I trust you are fully stocked up on groceries and other goods since by your own mandate many of your local stores you shop at could easily be shut down. Yeah, let's put 200,000 citizens out of work because some illegal is mowing the lawn out front. Great idea. | ||
| Brucelee |
If Monday was a preview of how terrible the US would be without these criminals in our country, I say, Bring it on. I was not inconvenienced in the slightest. And, even if I was, I would be fine about it. So, my strawberries would cost more. I'll deal with it. My lawn needs cutting, I cut it. My house is dirty, I'll clean it. My burger is more costly, I'll make my own. Any questions? Big threat, an illegal Mexican staying out of school for the day! Wow, who would of thought they would give up a day of learning???? Give me a break. | ||
| Ryker77 |
What seperates the USA from third world countries? We have laws the we enforce. These illegals were/are to stupid/lazy to make there own country suceed. They refuse to follow the laws or enforce laws in there own country. Now the refuse to follow the laws of the country they are illegal living in. BTW: In 1954 President Roosevelt sent 1,000,000 of them home and another 1million got scared and left on there own. So it can be done. | ||
| Spike |
A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
 I SAY WE WILL BE FINE WITHOUT THEM! illegal aliens are exactly that...ILLEGAL! say they are doing us a favor being here? take the jobs we don't want? who are they to say that? how do they know that fred w/ 3.2 kids a wife,house,car and dog who just got laid off and needs food and diapers won't cut a lawn for $5.00. what about our kids...i'm sure they would do the jobs for extra cash. i say THEY are STEALING from the american public and need to go back where ever it is they came from. americans should unite and build a wall/fence/ditch/swamp or whatever it takes to keep the illegals out. just my .02 | ||
| Ryker77 |
Tom Tancredo for President! He would have my vote. | ||
| Court |
I'm of British and German descent. . .so I walked out yesterday afternoon. I waited for a while, no one noticed, so I came back. Drats! | ||
| Davegess |
These d a m illegals, lazy, stupid, drunks. Stealing money from 'mericans and sending it back to there drug addict, prostitute sisters. I say we set up machine guns with automatic sensors and shoot anything that moves at the border north or south. I for one would like to see all this bashing stop. Enough with this thread in general the whole tone is offensive. Stop with the name calling and pseudo facts. Find an immigration chat room to talk about this; it has nothing to do with bikes or bikers. Thanks you! | ||
| Buellzebub |
what Dave says... T.A.T.F.M.! (talk about the fine motorcycles) | ||
| M1combat |
Sorry Dave... I feel the whole situation is offensive. I've heard the words to the "Mexican/American National Anthem" and quite frankly it pisses me right the •••• off. I'm offended. I pay in more ways than one so these people can walk across my border and take jobs from my friends. Then they have the gaul to demand ANYTHING? I live in Arizona. I've lived in Alaska, Washington and Minnesota as well. I can certainly see why people from other regions may not see the issue. I sure didn't until I moved here. I have NO trouble with immigration. I'm all for sharing the American dream with anyone who wants it. I'm NOT for someone coming in and stealing it. I'm for increasing the number of legal immigrations accepted from Mexico (even ten fold). They need to come over here legally. We need allow each one that's here to apply for legal citizenship, accept 35% of the applications and then remove the rest and tell them that they can try again in two years. I grew up with an in-ordinate number of Viet-Nam (WW-Nam as many call it) vets and I assure you... I completely understand who does and doesn't have a right to "demand" anything in this country. Freedom isn't free. Right now there's a very large number of people in my country who feel that it should be. I'm real sorry they weren't lucky enough to be born here, but that's how the cookie crumbles. I say they should go home and try to make positive changes in their own country. They need a revolution. If they started one I'm pretty sure we'd back the people of Mexico and not the govt. of Mexico... | ||
| Court |
>>>>I feel the whole situation is offensive. And regardless of where your personal feelings come down it's so totally INAPPROPRIATE for a BUELL discussion board that it renders any credible discussion pretty much moot. Court | ||
| Ryker77 |
This have alot to do with bikers. 1- if you get in a wreck with an illegal with no insurance 2- if you wreck and go to the ER thats full of illegals 3- your insurance cost more 4- drunk drivers don't get as much jail time because the jails are full of illegals 5- you pay more taxes thus you have less money to spend on your bike | ||
| P0p0k0pf |
Laws, proper behavior, courtesy, and down-right doing the right thing are all very prevalent issues for anyone who chooses to enjoy motorcycling. These principles apply to countless aspects of human life. Motorcyclists, being human, are subject to these principles. Motorcycling can arguably be part of a way of life, and thusly affected by a number of seemingly irrelevant issues. Apart from possibly violating OT rules, I say more power to anyone who wants to speak on the matter! America is for Americans, no matter the color. | ||
| M1combat |
So what's your point Court? Are you saying that a person can only post their feelings/thoughts on the subject in a credible way if they're posting to an immigration forum? I don't see the logic there so I'll assume that's not quite what you mean. What if I post my thoughts on an immigration-centric forum, and then link to them from here? Would that make them more credible? I'm sure that's not where your headed either... In any case... I guess there are a few subjects that people shy away from for various reasons. I didn't realize this was one of them. I see it as a current and pressing issue. I also see that discussing the issue on a Buell enthusiasts forum won't solve a damn thing. I'm OK with that though. Aside from voting and/or volunteering with the border patrol (public or private) I'll not get anything accomplished on the subject. I don't see why some people have to say "Stop talking about (insert subject here)". I have no problem with the "fact" that people feel they have to do that... It's their prerogative for sure... I'll just continue to discuss whatever I feel like discussing until someone with the proper authority tells me I should do otherwise is all. No offense to Dave intended what so ever. In any case... I'm having trouble figuring out why discussion of this topic is "inappropriate" as such, and why discussing it in a place where "you" feel it's inappropriate would make the discussion itself any less credible than if it were taking place anywhere else. Maybe it's the people and/or opinions expressed that you feel are less than perfectly credible? I don't know, but I'm all ears  . |
