| Author | Message | ||
     M1combat |
That's all well and good Bomber, but I pay over 30% in payroll taxes AND I pay all of those other taxes. The workers on my local street corner get paid in cash or they don't get in the truck. CeeJay is entirely correct when she says that we need to vote with our pocketbooks but that will never happen. Just for the record... There are some legal citizens that sit down there too. They like the un-taxed $10. They generally get forcibly removed by the illegals. Sometimes the numbers are fairly equal and you'll see Tans and Whites standing on opposite sides of the "C-Stop" parking lot. It's a labor invasion. We don't need it. | ||
| Ftd |
Supposedly 10000 people were to march in downtown Orlando today. Apparently a crowd of 3000 showed. Any similar experiences from other areas of the country? Frank | ||
| Ceejay |
M1combat-agreed on your points as you do mine-except one, while it may be of disfavorable distinction, and somewhat devoid of noble behavior I am a man, not a she.... | ||
| Ceejay |
As bomber states there are many shade of gray, and despite the media attention, political strain, and general uproar, there are probably just as many people that have called this country home for many generations that are unwilling to pay into a system that has given to them without prejudice...As a kid my parents would barely make ends meet, I remember waiting for my mother in the car while she got groceries, as I waited I watched about four mexican guys putting just purchased stereo/TV/entertainment equipment into the back of thier truck. Looked to be about 400 bucks worth. As I was helping my mom put the groceries in the trunk she told me about a lady that she had to wait behind who had bought over 300 dollars in food with food stamps. This lady got into the same truck as the guys. Point being that this has been going on for some time, as that was about 20 yrs. ago... | ||
| Oldog |
other CJ (CJxb) | ||
| Mikej |
ftd, Local Milwaukee WI story: http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=420038&format=print | ||
| CJXB |
other CJ (CJxb) Confusion over CJ's, I AM a she, but the comment wasn't mine !!  | ||
| Whatever |
My two cents I don't want a bigger piece of the pie, I want a different pie... What is this don't f*&$ with my piece of the pie theory??? my guess is most people won't get it | ||
| Cowboy |
It did not make any difference here in my area. There is not many here any way. | ||
| M1combat |
I'm a dork  . Sorry. I did confuse the two of you. My bad. | ||
| Old_man |
Apr_6_Rush.wmv (1771.9 KB) I almost never agree with this guy, but in this case he has a good point. | ||
| Mikej |
Can you tell us what his view is in 20 words or less? | ||
| Old_man |
Sorry I couldn't transfer it, but he quoted the laws of Mexico that deal with aliens to their country. He opined that we should follow suit and use their laws in this country. They are very strict. | ||
| Kdan |
As an immigrant, I thought about staying out of work today in support. But hey, I don't work days, so I wasn't sure if I should stay out all night, or just until midnight, but then what would I do, hold a rally with myself around 9:00pm, maybe? Screw it. I'm just going to go to work. The internet connection is better anyway. And for the record...Immigrants pay taxes. I pay an ass load of taxes. It's people that work for employers who don't declare them to the IRS with a social security number who don't pay taxes. Does no one here do work under the table? I'm sure when you buy or sell a vehicle, you go to DMV with a signed bill of sale and/or receipt so you can pay the correct amount in sales tax? I mean, I don't either, but I'm not a hypocrite. | ||
| M1combat |
"I'm sure when you buy or sell a vehicle, you go to DMV with a signed bill of sale and/or receipt so you can pay the correct amount in sales tax? I mean, I don't either, but I'm not a hypocrite." I did... Cost me $850 for the last one. My state won't let you register a vehicle in this state w/o paying the sales tax or proving that you paid the sales tax in the state where the vehicle was bought. If I didn't have to though, I probably wouldn't have. That said, this is a far cry from payrol taxes from large corporate environments. I'm really not talking about immigrants though... Sorry if I came off that way. Immigrants are a good thing. It's makes a larger base of freedom loving people and it gives those people a chance to succeed within the american dream. I'm talking about Illegal immigrants who collect food from a food shelter, work for an un-taxed $10/hr (in my town) and then live with a woman who's an anchored citizen because she had a child in America and now collects a federal check for herself and five kids. He uses his money to buy an X-Box and a big TV, she uses her entitlement to buy the food. He also has a Sancha on the side who collects an entitlement from children from four different men (because she doesn't want a man, she just wants the kids)... etc, etc, etc... I'm ok with immigration. I'm not ok with leaches. Play by the rules or go home. Take your ball with you. We'll find another way to play. At this point it's become more about the principal than anything else. Anyone hear the words to the "Mexican/American national anthem" or whatever they're calling it? You don't •••• with that. You wanna see a wall go up? You wanna see wholesale roundups a deportations? You wanna see people running from La-Migra? Start singing our national anthem with the wrong words... I'm just saying that if a person wants to be an American, they need to assimilate. That's the way it works. That's all. If that doesn't happen then it does nothing other than divide a nation. Well... Why would you do that? Please don't think I'm speaking specifically to you Kdan... I'm just ranting to anyone and everyone in general that practices what I'm ranting about . | ||
| Mfell2112 |
So Kdan you are an ILLEGAL immigrant? You do understand why these people are marching right? We have laws here. Immigration laws. Yes I know some of us speed which is against the law too. We all break laws and that is a fact. That all said most illegals DONT PAY TAXES!!We provide healthcare for these people,we provide schools for these people,we provide money for these people to live. They are not even citizens and they are here illegally!!! Are we as tax payers supposed to support all the illegals around the world that sneak in here? These people get FAKE SSNs,they have no auto insurance,or drivers licenses. That or they get a fake idenity altogether. It is wrong. My Great Grandfather came to this country legally. He learned our language paid taxes and became an *American* first and foremost. It was his dream to be an American. http://katybusinesses.com/civilwar.html The Eisenhower administration removed 2.1 million, mostly Mexican, illegal aliens between 1953 and 1955. Thats over one million a year. Why are we not doing the same today? http://www.npg.org/forum_series/ending_illegal_imm.htm Also, I find it odd these people never protest in their own country. If they did maybe they could change things back home. Regards Mike | ||
| Ryker77 |
"And for the record...Immigrants pay taxes" Were talking about ILLEGAL, lawbreakers, outlaws, criminals, trespassers, insurgents and terrorist. They don't pay ALL required taxes. | ||
| Brucelee |
"And for the record...Immigrants pay taxes" well yes and no. Legal and illegal immigrants are supposed to pay Federal Income tax and to do this, they are supposed to get a Federal TIN. How many do this? Well, there is NO data on this, simply because to obtain a TIN and start paying Income taxes, fica etc, exposes the illegal alien to discovery. Fact is, the illegals only pay those taxes they cannot get out of, ie sales tax, gas tax etc. Why is this supposed to get them sort of brownie points, that is, paying taxes they cannot otherwise avoid? Show me real data otherwise please. | ||
| Toona |
Is it just me or was this not the perfect opportunity to go arrest and deport the Illegals? You would not have had to go to any businesses, they were out in the public. Bring in the buses and haul them off to detention center, screen them, legals stay-illegals go. Real Simple. | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
What we are missing in payroll taxes is small compared to what illegals have done to our health care costs. Just think of it a hospital cannot turn away anyone that is seriously injured, if an illegal is injured they have no SSN or TIN to track or bill this person, the hospital eats the bill. This has to be one of the major components of the increase in prices for all American goods. Since most companies will pass the added cost onto the consumer or have to lay off large amounts of employee's because they cannot afford the high premiums for medical benefits. I think we need to institue a new law that if you do not have a SSN or TIN then you can not get any medical care, etc. If we take these away I think the problem will eventually go away. I mean if you are illegal and cannot be admitted to a hospital then how can you have a kid that will receive a SSN at a hospital. That would also decrease welfare costs for the illegals who have children here and take advantage of this program. I'm not racist, my sister in law is from Mexico and her family came here legally. It just pisses me off that these illegals are so cocky that they think they can come here and then try to change everything and then try to hurt American business by doing nothing for a day. Who here could even take the day off to go protest the illegals without having to take a vacation day. Come on this is BS. | ||
| Seanp |
Ryker - not all of those jobs are being done by Americans. In case you didn't know it, there are plenty of LEGAL immigrants who are not American citizens and are still working in America. And my statement, in case you missed it, was not that the Americans would not do those jobs. It was that they would not do it for the same pay. It's capitalism, and it's a good economic system. But as CeeJay mentioned, once you start hiring Americans to do all of the jobs, then you start increasing the salary, which in turn raises the cost of the product. It's just like the exportation of jobs to Asia - they have cheaper labor; therefore, their products are generally cheaper. Anyway, it's not worth arguing over a message board. Personally, I don't like illegal immigrants. I've done quite a few Joint Task Force 6 missions in the Southwest US, and I've seen this stuff firsthand. There are a whole lot of folks doing whatever they can to get into this country. But I can see both sides of the issue. Unfortunately, some folks have blinders on and can't possibly understand a counter-argument. It's a waste of energy that, if I were home, I would spend riding. | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
Also if you have a child, that child should not be eligable for a SSN or US citizenship unless one of the parents has a SSN, meaning that one parent is already a US citizen. That would take quite a few American aid programs that Illegals are using away from them. Also there should be an immigration officer at every DMV and if you do not have a SSN or TIN and try to get a drivers license without these you are screened and then deported. | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
I don't think there is much of an argument here at all. If you come into this country illegally then you should not be allowed to stay period. There are plenty of people that go about coming to America the proper legal way. Every other country has very strict laws against illegal immigration except for American, we are way to easy on them. | ||
| Diablobrian |
I agree with Bruce on this. Show me hard numbers of who is where and who pays what. I do not believe the bulk of illegal immigrants pay payroll taxes because they are not paid through a payroll system. Most of it is under the table, in cash, as day labor,or migrant labor. | ||
| T9r |
I was thinking about all this on my motorcycle ride in this morning. The media is so bias and devisive. It all comes down to paying your dues... whether they are illegal or naturalized citizens. Paying taxes and the like are the responsibility, if one doesn't like it, they are free to find residence elsewhere. I think it would be fair to say nobody is against immigrants. Most all of our families were one at a period of time. It's just about paying your dues. Oh yeah, our local real Mexican food restaurant was open yesterday (May 1). I was proud of them! | ||
| Bomber |
M1 -- just trying to inject some facts into what has become an overwhelmingly emotional conversation -- my bad ;-} Funny, I remember a native born US citizen (no such thing as an "American" citizen, btw) saying on this board that he hadn't paid income tax for quite some time -- I don't remember anyone jumping down his throat -- hmmmmm | ||
| M1combat |
Didn't mean any insult Bomber  . You are fairly correct in your decision that this is a n emotional conversation. Overwhelmingly so? Not with me, but I see your point . In any case... I don't see any reason to allow a group of people to not play by the rules just so John Q. Smith can get someone to till his garden for $10/hr/person while he sits there drinking a martini. Same goes for meat processing plants. You can't tell me that American's won't do those jobs. Same goes for cleaning houses... My step-mother used to do that. She made more money than I do right now. | ||
| Gearheart |
It comes down to money in my opinion which I suppose is appropriate because we are all happy to claim we live in a capitalist county. As long as: 1) There are employers who are willing to hire them and pay them 2/3 of what an american or legal immigrant would get. 2) This is considerably more than they stand to earn in a comparable job in their home country. 3) The infrastructure (hospitals, schools, police, roads, etc.) of America is still visibly superior to that of their country of origin We will get illegal immigrants. Whether there are fences instant deportation and what not. So if people are truely concerned about this issuse why are they not fighting any of the actual causes instead of the symptoms? Why not go after the employers who break the law by hiring them? Why not start by seeing to it that americans actually follow the laws they have presumable voted for? Instead of demonizing people who just want a leg up in the world for themselves and their families why not go for the people who want to make a few more bucks by employing them? I have personally heard immigrants called some rather terrible things in the news but I have never actually heard anyone saying a single unkind word about all of the americans breaking the laws by employing them. | ||
| Bomber |
M1 -- no insult perceived, bud -- none at all we are in violent agreement, though, on the issue that the rules should apply across the board . . . . its a shame that we are only now trying to fix an issue that's been left broken for so long | ||
| Diablobrian |
Good call Brenden. Unfortunately there are already laws on the books against hiring illegal immigrants. These laws are not being enforced. I'd like to know why not. To steal a line from a San Diego radio personality "Let's hold their feet to the fire" and start questioning why we aren't enforcing the laws against hiring illegal immigrants. Of course it will not be easy since these transactions are not kept on the records (duh) and the employers do not want to get caught. proving the numbers and duration of the crime will be quite difficult. I say nail the employers on what we can. |
