| Author | Message | ||
     Diablobrian |
Nicky Hayden is leading the MotoGP points chase for the first time!! Consistency is paying off, even if he is only leading by 1 point. (Message edited by diablobrian on April 30, 2006) | ||
| Imonabuss |
Very cool! Consistency has won many championships; wouldn't it be incredible if he beat the bambino! | ||
| 99buellx1 |
Hayden - 52 Capirossi - 51 Melandri - 45 Stoner - 41 Rossi - 40 Pedrosa - 32 Elias - 32 Nakano - 22 Edwards - 19 Gibernau - 18 | ||
| 99buellx1 |
Great race today too. *caution* Race result implications ahead, if you dont want to know, dont read any further. Too bad Hayden dropped of the pace at the end. | ||
| Dtx |
GO USA!  | ||
| Rocketman |
He's on form, no doubt about it. But his tyres had gone, and he'd settled for 4th place. Pedrosa gifted Hayden 3rd, as we all know. That's racing. The ride of the race has to go to Elias, who chased Rossi all the way to the flag from 10th place. Both he and Rossi were putting in fast laps consistently whilst the front runners were tripping over themselves. Good racing indeed. If only I wasn't busy developing a slipper clutch  Rocket | ||
| Jimidan |
Nicky said that the front tire warmer melted to the brake disc and screwed-up his braking...he said that is why he was running wide so much. He was in the hunt even then. Go Kentucky Kid! Pedrosa is going to be tough all year...same bike but 40 lbs. lighter body weight than Nicky. Jimidan (Message edited by jimidan on May 01, 2006) | ||
| Diablobrian |
I could see the tire warmer melting to the brake. Those carbon disks get HOT! | ||
| Lornce |
That was one of the best Moto-GP races I've seen in awhile. Maybe it's logical given the addition of the young 250 aces like Stoner and Pedrosa, but it was just like watching a 250 GP with all the cut and thrust position swapping going on at the front. Interesting to watch Hayden's cornering style in contrast to his flyweight competition. He really levers and slams the bike down hard and late, often carrying more entry speed than the others. Seems it's the only way he can regain time lost to their weight advantage down the straights. Excellent race action and a goofy-deep pool of talent to enjoy. Fans haven't had it this good since Schwantz's brilliant gymnastics of the late '80's. | ||
| Diablobrian |
No kidding. My son and I had a ball watching that race, then the AMA after that. Nicky, Casey Stoner, and Dani Pedrosa are all pushing hard. Rossi is having trouble, Suzuki is finding their feet (finally) and it is a free-for-all in GP right now. There is a tremendous amount of talent riding motorcycles all over the world. Ben Spies Is really coming on strong in AMA superbike too. How long until the younger Haydens are up there in contention in superbike too? | ||
| Rocketman |
Yesterdays double header British Superbike from Oulton park was just sensational too. Lavilla cleaned up on the Ducati in both races, and up coming talent from Yorkshire, Carl Harris, got 2nd in race two, but the most spectacular talent for me was Shakey Burn on the GSXR1000, who fought hard for the lead in race one, only losing out on the last lap. Better Shakey in BSB than struggling away in Moto GP on the KTM. My money's on him for a good finish in the title chase this year. Maybe second place, behind defending champ Lavilla, who seems unstoppable. The Crescent Suzuki's haven't favoured to well in BSB since Crescent took on managing the Moto GP team, but this season with Shakey in the seat, it's starting to look good. Rocket | ||
| Lornce |
What's in that Yorkshire water producing all those fast blokes, Rocket?  | ||
| Rocketman |
All I can is, it works for me Lawrence. Seriously though, Harris has been one of the new riders to watch for the past couple of seasons. Rocket | ||
| Aeholton |
Why does Ducati do so much better in World and British Superbike racing? In the AMA Superbikes Hodgson and Bostrom seem to be racing for 4th/5th. | ||
| Heads |
GO AUSSIES....  | ||
| Rocketman |
Why does Ducati do so much better in World and British Superbike racing? AMA rules are slightly different from WSB & BSB. The AMA rules forbid the use of the same specification Ducati 999F06 Testastretta, but the WSB and BSB rules do allow. As for the BSB series, Ducati are for what it's worth fielding works bikes. Yes Honda, Suzuki etc are too, but 'works' in this case is a little more so as the Ducati's are factory built machines. The Japanese , an I could be wrong here, because Honda had HRC build six Fireblades specially to win the BSB series in 2004, but I understand that HRC are not doing so now, so 'works' this season means factory support. That basically equates to a showroom stock machine torn down and put back together with factory exotica by the teams that run them here in the UK. Don't take that to mean they are less capable than the factory Ducati's , because they are not. Remember if you will, Colin Edwards won the WSB title on an Honda SP1 'factory' bike, but those SP1's were built from the ground up at Honda's racing HQ, which is based in a sleepy English market town, Louth in Lincolnshire, not far from Cadwell Park race circuit. Trust me, anywhere in Lincolnshire is well off the beaten track, and interbreeding is rife! Ducati 999F06 Testastretta The Ducati 999F06 represents a refinement of the proven specification that took World Championship titles during its first two years of introduction in 2003 and 2004; it's the further development of the famous twin cylinder 4-stroke L-twin engine and the perfection of the tubular trellis frame, now synonymous with Ducati. The 999F06 began its latest specification trail with two test sessions in November 2005 at Valencia and December 2005 in Qatar and continued the testing programme at the start of February 2006 with two more days at Valencia before the machines were flown back to Qatar for the opening round. Part of the technical improvements have been focussed upon the use of a new Öhlins hydraulic system applied to the new 42 mm pressurized TTX20 upside-down forks and the TTX36 rear shock absorber. The new hydraulic circuit is designed to improve compression and rebound behavior while helping to simplify maintenance operations and changes in settings. The new shock absorber design employs smaller diameter springs, which also equates to a weight saving of approximately 600 grams. Ducati’s tubular steel trellis type frame, as used on all Ducati motorcycles, uses a double-sided aluminium swingarm. With a bore and stroke of 104 mm x 58.8 mm, the Ducati 999 Testastretta – with its desmodromically controlled double overhead cam and 4 valves per cylinder engine – produces 194 hp @ 12,500 rpm. Revving close to 13,000 rpm, its electronically managed ignition and injection system uses a Magneti Marelli Marvel4 ECU to deliver Shell V-Power RD0502 fuel to a single Magneti Marelli IWF1 injector per cylinder. From a simple switch control, the rider is able to select any one of three pre-programmed ignition maps as well as automatically restrict his speed upon pit-lane entry. In addition to engine management, the Marvel4 ECU also looks after the bike’s data logging functions. The 999F06’s slender 165 kg / 364 lbs (measured with oil and water) coupled with 194 hp achieves straightline speeds in excess of 312 kmh / 194 mph and relies upon Brembo stopping power by using an option of two 320 mm or two 290 mm Brembo floating discs gripped by radial calipers with four 34 mm pistons at the front and an option of a 200 mm or 218 mm vented, floating discs gripped by optional calipers equipped with four 24 mm or two 34 mm pistons at the rear. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
From the BSB forum recently...... TEAM NEWS: The Airwaves Ducati team are in confident mood after their final test in Albacete, Spain. The team will now return home to focus on Round One at Brands Hatch in a week’s time. Leon Haslam completed 132 laps of the circuit, recording a fastest time of 1m30.44 whilst Gregorio Lavilla rode 127 laps clocking a fastest time of 1m30.45. Both riders utilised the team’s last test before the start of the 2006 Bennetts British Superbike Season to complete two simulated race runs in which they both averaged 1m31.0 laps. Only one one-hundredths of a second between their fastest lap times and similar lap time averages during race simulation goes to prove how close the two Airwaves Ducati riders will push each other over the coming season. Both riders were happy with how the final test had gone and eager for the season the start. Lavilla said “The test has gone very well here in Albacete, the team and the bike are working well and it has all gone as planned. I am very happy with everything as I have been consistently fast, which has been pleasing, and now I am hoping it all goes well at Brands Hatch.” Haslam added “It’s been fantastic, another good test. I was the quickest by the end of the day and both Gregorio and I were the quickest on the track. I had two good race simulations with good average lap times and some fast laps. On the whole I am really happy with the bike and how testing has gone here, I am now just looking forward to getting started with the races.” Having been given full factory support for 2006, the Airwaves Ducati team have had to learn the operations of the new Ducati 999F06 during the course of the four tests. Team Manager Colin Wright is pleased with how the team has dealt with the changes, “Testing started off with a big learning curve with a new bike, new electronics and a lot of major changes from last year. However now that the final test is over I feel that we are all working well as a team, we are all very excited about the start of the season ahead and also very optimistic!” The testing in Albacete may have been the last chance for the 2005 champion Gregorio Lavilla and one of the strong contenders for the 2006 title, Leon Haslam, to ride their bikes prior to the start of the season but it was also an exclusive opportunity for Michael Neeves from MCN to test ride an Airwaves Ducati 999F06. A full and exclusive review of the bike test will be in the next issue of MCN, out on Wednesday 22nd March. Round One of the Bennetts British Superbike Championship will commence on the 26th March at Brands Hatch. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Not to hijack this thread entirely, but seeing as Hayden is a Honda man, and this is really interesting stuff from a techno manufacturing type standpoint, here's some interesting reading from Honda Racing Communications Centre based in Louth, England. Rocket | ||
| Jimidan |
Rocketman sez: "AMA rules are slightly different from WSB & BSB. The AMA rules forbid the use of the same specification Ducati 999F06 Testastretta, but the WSB and BSB rules do allow." Not to be argumentative, but how do you know that? I would like to read up on it. As a practical matter, I cannot see why AMA would put any such restriction on Ducati when they already have a mechanical efficiency handicap, i.e. IL4 is more efficient than v-twin. AMA allows nearly unlimited engine modifications for its Superbike and Formula Xtreme bikes, which is how the XBRR qualifies. Last year, Ducati brought its SBK racers, Lorenzo Lanzi and Regis Laconi, to VIR for the last AMA Superbike race of the year (which I attended). This was possible because a hurricane had forced a one month delay in the VIR race and consequently, the SBK season had ended already. I was told by the Ducati teams that they were using their World Superbike equipment. Were they wrong? Anyway, even with their SBK teams they still didn't win any races, struggling for 4-5 place just like this year. My contention is that Ducati does not do as well in the AMA as they do in SBK because the talent in AMA is superior to that in the SBK. I am not sure why so many folks here in America are still in denial about the quality and quantity of great racers (hell, a lot of them a not even American born) and their teams in the AMA series, but over time, they have proven it. It is like these fans do not want to appear to be gloating that they have the better series. I can understand that...but the evidence is there for anyone who is willing to look at it with an open mind. Plus, what kind of series can SBK really have without ANY American riders...and they call themselves 'World' Superbike? Analogous to this is hockey being considered a real "sport" without black athletes. Don't take my word for it, just ask Neil Hodgen, Lorenzo Lanzi, or Regis Laconi...or Ben Bostrum for that matter. Actually, the parity among riders in the AMA, SBK, and MotoGP is pretty amazing lately. Of course, the machinery is different, but the riders are pretty close in talent. The MotoGP boys who have come back to SBK haven't exactly been tearing up the competition...except for Bayliss, for now. The SBK rider, Chris Vermeulen, who has gone over to MotoGP seems to be holding his own in his first year, and he didn't even win the SBK. I don't think for a moment that the Ducati bikes that SBK are getting are superior to the AMA offerings. The tires are different, true enough. Ducati wants to be competitive in this very important USA market, and they would be crazy not to give their racers in AMA the best bits available. jimidan | ||
| 12r |
I've read a number of times that the AMA rules don't allow exactly the same spec as the WSB/BSB bikes but that's not to say that the AMA bikes are somehow inferior to WSB/BSB machines. FWIW Ducati are pushing for a 1200cc V-twin limit in WSB/BSB next year. (Message edited by 12r on May 03, 2006) | ||
| Diablobrian |
Jimidan the unlimited mods for the XBRR are on an air cooled 2valve/cyl pushrod motor. The Ducati watercooled testatretta desmo-motors are a whole different animal. The AMA is a bit cautious after watching WSB become "the Ducati show" for several years until WSB worked out rules that would give more parity. Right now Ducati seems to be comparable to everyone in AMA superbike, except Suzuki. Part of that is because of Mladin and Spies. Yates is on a nearly identical machine and still can't match their pace. | ||
| Rocketman |
Jimidan, somewhere on the BadWeB it was written about some of the differences. From memory the AMA bikes are slightly down on power compared to BSB and WSB. You should also know that the BSB series is regarded by many in the racing world, including ALL four Japanese manufacturers, to be the best national Superbike series in the world. This is why the major players, Italian's too, are keen to be involved in the British series. Choose any year from the past six and buy the BSB season review on DVD from Duke You'll not be disappointed. Rocket | ||
| Jimidan |
Rocket, So how do we explain that Lorenzo Lanzi and Regis Laconi showed up at VIR last year with SBK spec bikes and raced in the AMA Superbike double header with them? The Ducati pit crew told me these were SBK spec bikes as an answer to my direct question. BTW, I am sure that the British Superbike is swell, and well worth watching. We cannot get it here on SPEED channel, or I would be watching it. I hear from my mate in Crewe that bike racing in Britain is as big as NASCAR is here in the states. Lucky bloke to be that close to world class racing. I am more curious about the exact differences in the rules across the board that govern Ducatis. I will research these and get back with you guys, since nobody seems able to give me much more than vague recollections. Diablobrian, I realize that the FX and Superbike are different classes, and that Ducatis and Buells are "whole different animals", since I have both a Ducati 998 and a couple of Buells.  . Trust me, they are plenty different in some respects, but alike in others. Both classes say that nearly unlimited mods are allowed to the engine. However, keep in mind that when the SBK became the Ducati show, the Japanese were protesting the 750cc restriction for IL4's, and many had dropped out of full factory support teams. Therefore, this would not have been germane to the AMA restricting Ducati in Superbike to a higher degree than they do in SBK or BSB. Plus, I am not sure I would say that AMA or SBK has achieved parity in Superbike by making all machines meet a 1000 cc limit. The inherent mechanical efficiency between IL4's and V-twins does not lend itself to parity based on displacement alone. There are a lot of ways to measure output, and displacement is only one. It looks to me like in both AMA and SBK, when the IL4 Japs pulled out to get their way (1000cc), that it killed the V-twins. There is no telling how much more that Ducati has to spend on its engines just to run 5th or 6th, considering that the new Gixxer, R1, Kaw have 160 RWHP off the showroom floor. | ||
| Rocketman |
Jimidan, with reference to Neil Hodgson's US superbike title hopes. From this weeks MCN UK, and I quote...... "Hampered by rules which limit camshaft, gearbox and fuel injection changes, the 999's running in the US series are a pale shadow of the ones used to dominate in WSB and BSB, and it shows. Hodgson finished more than 20 seconds off the lead in both races." End quote. Hodgson said: "There's not much more I can do, the bike is just sliding around. I'm pleased with the way I'm riding. I'm just not pleased to be so far behind the leaders again. I just couldn't do anything. I had nothing left. That was it." In BSB the V twin 1000cc limit allows the IL 4's a weight advantage of 3 kilo's. No matter, the Ducati 999F06 is still the bike to beat as Lavilla and Haslam blaze a trail to glory most weekends. The 999's are pushing beyond 190 rwhp. Ask yourself what Hodgson and Bostrom's 999's are pushing. Maybe then you'll begin to understand why BSB is the pinnacle of national superbike racing. Rocket | ||
| Diablobrian |
You are preaching to the choir about there being better ways to measure performance than displacement. By parity I was comparing the relative top speeds and lap times that the various manufacturers are currently running. I well remember the 750cc dispute. It was caused in large part by the fact they were no longer competetive with the ducatis. Until Honda built the rc51. I haven't heard that Ducati was being limited in the AMA. In fact I thought Neil Hodgson was supposed to be bringing Full Ducati factory support and WSB level equipment with him. | ||
| Rocketman |
Brian, I assure you it is often enough mentioned in the British press that the Ducati's racing in the AMA series are not on the same level as BSB and WSB. There was a thread that made reference to this on the BadWeB I'm sure. Unless I'm confusing reading it somewhere else. Last weeks Oulton Park race saw the GSXR and Fireblade in winning form. No doubt about it. What beat them was Lavilla. He seems unstoppable at the moment. Yes the BSB Ducati's are full blown factory bikes, but if they were not, thay wouldn't stand a chance. Think of it another way. Crescent Suzuki have won the BSB series twice with the GSXR1000. For their efforts the same team is now running the Moto GP team, and the Suzuki seems better than ever. Witness John Hopkins. Two season back in BSB, Honda had HRC back in Japan, build six works Fireblades just for the BSB series. Whether or not in recent years Suzuki won a BSB title, and Honda haven't but tried their hardest, how is it Ducati if not winning in BSB are snapping at their heels? How come the same cannot be said of the US Superbike series? Could it be that the AMA rules favour the IL 4's? I think so looking at the results. The problem I see here is the size of ones balls. I think some of my American friends might be feeling a little inferior if it were proven the Brit's and World boys had more power. Rocket | ||
| José_quiñones |
Rocket is correct. BSB and WSBK rules are identical. Click HERE for the he FIM WSBK rules. The AMA rules are not the same. Twins are not allowed some of the modifications that they are allowed in WSBK/BSB. So Ducati had to build/sell ("homologate") a US spec 999R that forms the basis for their AMA 999R Superbike. It would be simpler/cheaper for them if they could just build/sell one bike for all three series, not to mention the Italian, Japanese and other National Series. (Message edited by José_quiñones on May 05, 2006) | ||
| Aeholton |
Rocket - Do you think Hodgson or Bostrom could win in the AMA with a BSB or WSBK Ducati? | ||
| Xgecko |
That's a silly question...Technology wise the Duc sitting under Bostrom isn't even up to par with what he had the last time he raced on a Duc in WSBK. Not to mention Neil had before his GP experience | ||
| Jimidan |
Thanks for the info guys, given the rules handicap, I still don't know how the SBK teams raced at VIR last year, when Jose' and I were there. If I were Ducati I would threaten to drop out like the 750 Japanese teams did and see if they couldn't get the cams, injection, and whatever else they have in SBK and BSB, because there is not parity as it is. However, in straight line speeds the Ducks in AMA have an advantage over the IL4s. However, with that being said, I still think that the top AMA racers and teams could hold their own in SBK or BSB. Can't prove it, but who cares? I am not one to let misplaced tribalism taint my love for great racing. jimidan | ||
| Jimidan |
BTW, I found some more evidence as to why Ducatis suck in AMA...check it out from the men at Ducati, Filippo Preziosi, Ducati Corse Director, Paolo Ciabatti, SBK Programme Director and Ernesto Marinelli, SBK Technical Director. I hope your Italian decipher software is current...naw, just joking, as there is an English version too. http://blog.ducati.com/post/34/sbk-ama It appears that AMA holds all manufacturers to the same standards regardless of engine configuration, where SBK allows Ducati to use different crankshafts and gear boxes than what comes on the stock bikes. jimidan | ||
| Rocketman |
Do you think Hodgson or Bostrom could win in the AMA with a BSB or WSBK Ducati? Without a doubt I'm sure both could win. Hodgson is not one to give up. He is a gritty racer, even when the chips are down he'll still give it his all. His and Chris Walkers battles in BSB were legendary, going down to the last of two races at the last round for the title. Whoever took first place in that last race won the title. Hodgson took his then Ducati over the line first whilst Walker suffered his first engine blow up of the season, on the last lap. Quite amazing when they had spent the full season banging fairings and trading paint, literally. What we have in the UK is a fantastic array of tracks. If you have a Playstation 2, get the British Touring car game and you're there. If you really want to feel the tracks, get the pedal box and steering wheel and rig them up to a car seat, and off you go. You will not believe your heart rate! Rocket |
