| Author | Message | ||
     Jerry_haughton |
The facts are clear what "facts" about this incident are you referring to? we all know SUV's are NOT SAFE at high speeds and not really even safe at 70mph we do? this is a grand, sweeping generalization on your part, sir. you don't even know the make and model of vehicle the trooper was driving, do you? nor do you know the exact circumstances that led the trooper to make the decisions he did. Old guy may dad works with was hit in the rear end by a trooper. Trooper was resonding to a car wreck at over 100mph on a 65mph road with no blue lights on. Hit the old man in the rear end. Witnesses back this all up and guess what the dash cam was not on. State troopers refuse to pay for his damages. how does this relate in any way, shape or form to this thread? some guys just like the thrill of blue lights and chasing somebody. this is probably true, but how does this relate to this thread? any road cop knows this to be true. another sweeping generalization, based on opinion, not fact. My cop buddies tell me all the time they like to get in on a chase. your "cop buddies" weren't there in this case. they are not the trooper who died. neither you or i know why the trooper made the decisions he did in this case, so to pass judgement on him for his actions is wrong. or am i missing something? FB | ||
| Vaneo1 |
yea baby!! Ive got some spare change to throw on this one. Hi Im Adam, some of oyu might remeber me from the other thread on cops. hehe (sounds like troy mcclure from Simpsons). Anyway motorcyclist was dumb for going that fast, he was putting his life up for grabs, and would have probably ONLY killed himself upon impact of anything. Even a Toyota Corrolla couldve taken the blow, maybe not the old lady crossing the street or freeway?? Anyway, with all the so called extensive training the troopers recieve, some times these guys get to the point where they think they ARE the law hence I use this simultaneously to say sometimes they feel they are also ABOVE the law. I dont care what some of you may say, but the only SAFE SUV is one that cant go faster than 65MPH!! It sucks the trooper died but at least he died doing what he loved (must have taken his job seroius for this to happen)and finally, I have a feeling that this trooper wouldve have gone over board with the motorcyclist if he did catch hi. You know police brutality or in legal terms EXCESSIVE FORCE? Although no way to prove it, I bet the trooper would have tkane the agression out on the motorist on the basis of "you made me speed and risk my life to save yours". Bottom line, IMO this article would have either been an excessive force article or what it is now. Funny how people opinions change depending on how the coin lands. | ||
| Chainsaw |
In Colorado the bike rider would be charged with Felony Murder. Around 1999, chick and friend break into old boyfriends house to get back her stuff, cops pursue for 50+ miles. Chase ends at apartment complex, chick gets out of car, turns herself into the cops. She's handcuffed in the back of a cop car when her friend shoots and kills a cop. She was given a life sentence for starting the events that led to the cops death (Felony Murder). Sentence was overturned by the Colorado Supreme Court in March 2005 (on the grounds of Improper Jury Instructions during the trial). Google Lisl Auman for more details. | ||
| Patrickh |
Tragic accident caused by poor judgement from both parties. Punishment needs to be more severe than a speeding fine, but should not put a stupid kid in jail for lack of judgement. | ||
| New12r |
If you try to catch a bike in an suv you have made a poor decision PERIOD! Cop or not this is hard to read and hear but the radio works just fine! | ||
| Diablobrian |
I think people should reserve judgment. The grand Jury will hear the case and decide if there is enough evidence to go to trial with the case. This is a typical case of trying someone in the media, not in the courts as it should be. | ||
| Ryker77 |
The issue is.. This guy getting charge with such a serious crime could be ME or You. I was speeding in my car today. What if Cop A pulls a u-turn in front of a semi to catch me for speeding 76mph in a 70mph zone. He gets smacked by the semi. Now I am out at least 10g for a lawyer and time from work. | ||
| Ryker77 |
Unless the SUV was a BMW x5 with the m package or perhaps a new SRT8 dodge -- even then SUV's are big, tall, heavy and don't provide proper traction or suspension for high speed use. The person at fault was who ever bought the troopers the SUV to use. A nice safe Mustang or Camaro would/might have saved they cops life. you know a car designed to chase speeder--- since over 70% of what a trooper does is chase speeders. | ||
| Diablobrian |
There seem to be more suvs used by state troopers recently. In the past the state troopers in pick-ups and suvs were on DOT duty. They carried portable scales and were primarily after tractor-trailers trying to avoid the stationary scales. Obviously no SUV is sent out to be an "interceptor" unit. | ||
| Jackbequick |
"The person at fault was who ever bought the troopers the SUV to use..." The SUV's serve a purpose up here in the snow zone, they let police respond safely in some very trying weather conditions. I'm sure they are not intended to be pursuit cars and that the officers are aware of the limitations. The tax base in many places is going to force some compromises, the agencies buy vehicles that will give them the most bang for their buck. Jack | ||
| Ryker77 |
Cops are fine using SUV's as their primary job is not chasing speeders. A trooper spends most of his day chasing speeders not responding to a domestic or bank robbery. 350,000 speeding tickets is what NewYork trooper wrote in 2003. Perhaps a trooper needs an SUV if he is chasing a speeder in a snow storm. "I'm sure they are not intended to be pursuit cars and that the officers are aware of the limitations. " perhaps that should have been told to this trooper.. | ||
| Blake |
Jerry, We'll judge you anyway.  I may be assuming too much, but it seems to me that anything qualifying as an SUV that I can imagine has zero business engaging in any high speed chase over a mere speeding violation. I base this on my Ford Exploder ownership experience and the deaths of too many folks due to loss of control in SUVs. One a fellow Kilgorian. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Blake, what i find amazing is that so many people on this thread have so adamantly condemned the actions of the trooper, when NO ONE has any facts to back up their condemnation. the news report is vague and sparse in its details, yet ALMOST everyone here has cast a guilty verdict in the direction of the deceased trooper. there may have been - and probably were - circumstances that led the trooper, who was a highly-trained professional, to make the decisions he did. we here in this thread are not privy to those circumstances. i ask you, and anyone else here: --what is the year, make and model of the vehicle the trooper was driving? --what was the motorcyclist doing? nope, no guesses, no assumptions, no grand almighty proclamations based on a brief news report, i want you to tell me EXACTLY. well, you CAN'T tell me exactly, as you don't know. all you have to go on is a poorly-written news report that contains a bare minimum of info, written by someone who didn't have direct knowledge as to the trooper's rationale, nor knew exactly what the actions of the motorcyclist were, either. cut the trooper, and his grieving friends and family, a break, and give the guy the respect he deserves. he lost his life doing his job, trying to enforce the laws of this country, and he deserves our respect and credit for that fact. FB | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
...a mere speeding violation where in the news report does it say that this pursuit was about a "mere speeding violation?" I base this on my Ford Exploder ownership experience and the deaths of too many folks due to loss of control in SUVs. One a fellow Kilgorian. are you, or any of the people you refer to, professionally trained drivers, specifically as it pertains to high-performance driving? there are an infinite number of factors that could have led to the trooper's crash, and the fact that he "apparently" was driving an SUV may not have had any bearing on the crash. (Message edited by jerry_haughton on April 29, 2006) | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Trooper Todeschini joined the State Police in 2002. He also served with the Solvay Fire Department. He was a five-year veteran, and most recently served as a lieutenant. Prior to working with Solvay, he was a firefighter with the Taunton Fire Department. Trooper Todeschini sounds like he was a good guy. rest in peace, Sir. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Vaneo wrote; "I have a feeling that this trooper wouldve have gone over board with the motorcyclist if he did catch hi..." What are you, a psychic?? You can't possibly know what was going through the Trooper's mind when he took action, nor can you know what he was going to do when/ if he caught the bike. | ||
| Vaneo1 |
paintshaker did I ever say PSYCHIC?? I said FEELING... F-E-E-L-I-N-G as in hunch, Im sure youve had something sort of experience like that before, and if you havent your not living! | ||
| Court |
>>>>who was a highly-trained professional Is that an assumption or a fact? High speed chases are bad business. They are worse business (not facts, but my personal opinion) when they combine a motorcycle (the single most "sure to end the chase by a crash) and an SUV. My brother in law, a motor cop with the Sacramento PD, used to tell stories about the Sac PD. They never worried much about having to actually CATCH the motorcycle all they had to do was keep a little pressure on an wait till the rider wadded it. Some of the officers reveled in starting chases late at night just to play this game. Motorcycles chases are bad business. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Is that an assumption or a fact? fact. one does not become a state trooper without such training. additionally, Trooper Todeschini received considerable training in making critical decisions in his former profession as a firefighter. i do not disagree that high-speed chases are bad business. if you'll review my posts on this thread, you'll see that my position has been all along that none of us know enough details of this tragedy to condemn Trooper Todeschini for his actions. anecdotal stories about cops you know have no bearing on this subject. how THEY conduct themselves while on the job does not necessarily indicate what any other officer may do while on the job. that is a fact, not an opinion. cops are people, just like the rest of us. some suck, some don't, just like the participants of this thread. Trooper Todeschini MAY have sucked as a human being. or, he may have been a saint. none of us, based on the current information at our disposal, know the truth. furthermore, none of us know the circumstances that led to his decision to pursue the motorcyclist. until then, to condemn a man who lost his life in the performance of his duty is wrong. fact. | ||
| Seanp |
I'm glad all you folks have so much experience as officers in central New York state having motorcyclists blow by you at triple-digit speeds while you're driving your SUV. Man, it's great to know that there's all this experience and first-hand knowledge out there. In case you didn't notice, that was sarcasm...  Maybe the officer knew of something down the road that the motorcyclist might have hit and died, and was trying to warn him? Maybe the officer's grandmother was hit by a motorcyclist and killed the week earlier? Maybe the officer had just completed an advanced driving course, and was instructed on high-speed pursuits in SUVs? You people do not know the full circumstances, and can NOT judge this man's actions. If you think you know the whole story from this article, then you place entirely too much faith in the American media. If the motorcyclist hadn't been driving like an ass then the officer would not have needed to pursue. That's the cause and effect right there... But wait, there may have been more circumstances that the news did not report! We don't know. I guess that being in a profession that has to deal with life-and-death decisions often, this armchair quarterbacking and condemnation of someone really pisses me off more than most. I have spent plenty of time analyzing military missions, determining what happened, what went well, and what could have gone better. But we only do that once we've assembled as much information as possible. We don't take a news report of a battle, and immediately assume that the losing general was stupid, or that the dead soldiers were cowards or weak or inadequate. That would be foolish on our part. I've had a few friends die in helicopter accidents. The worst thing is when it turns out to be pilot error. That tears you up to know that your friend is no longer with you because he did something wrong, or didn't do something right. But the Army's Safety folks don't come to these conclusions easily. They spend weeks or months analyzing what happened, taking photos, conducting interviews, and doing whatever they can to determine the cause. So at least when it comes down to pilot error, you know that it's a conclusion that was drawn with as much evidence and investigation as was humanly possible. I'm glad none of you are Army Safety officers, because I'd hate to have you declare pilot error as the cause of one of my friends' deaths. That would be a slap in the face to anyone involved. Officer Todeschini, RIP. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Vaneo, Where did you get this "feeling"? Been watching one to many reality cop shows on TV?? Or some of the fictious shows like "The Shield" (which is a good show entertainment wise)? Maybe you had an experience with a corrupt officer?? | ||
| Seanp |
Oh, and the whole "the motorcyclist was probably only endangering himself" argument is foolish if you've ever seen those pictures of the bike buried inside of a little VW Golf or GTI or some such little car. The people in the car were quite obviously killed. So much for "let him go - he'll only kill himself." | ||
| Court |
>>>cops are people And. . . therein lies the root of the problem as well as the reason we will never have an answer. We now have a "fact" that should be easy to agree on. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
And. . . therein lies the root of the problem as well as the reason we will never have an answer. sorry, but with all due respect i don't agree with either point in your statement. rest in peace, Trooper Todeschini. FB | ||
| Ryker77 |
"i ask you, and anyone else here: --what is the year, make and model of the vehicle the trooper was driving? --what was the motorcyclist doing? " Chevy Tahoe was the SUV. 5000lbs of SUV 79" tall  | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
what is your source for this information? if this info is true, is the vehicle specially equipped for law enforcement duty? and what was the motorcyclist doing? | ||
| Ryker77 |
 another "highly trained" officer trying to catch a terrible and dangerous person who let out his clutch to quick and chirped tires. Only because the redlight was out and the public saftey officer (behind me) wouldn;t get out of his car to direct traffic at peak traffic time. The "highly trained" officer didn't notice that this is a residental area with a 35mph speedlimit. As he "highly trained" his v8 cop car into the back of my fully stopped car. I am sure we can get alot more "highly trained" pictures. (Message edited by ryker77 on April 30, 2006) | ||
| Ryker77 |
Jerry I called a NewYork trooper post and asked a New York Trooper. I then pulled a picture of same type SUV from google. I am sure or would hope it had stiffer suspension and better than normal tires. But none the less its still a 5000lb SUV that nearly 7 feet tall. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
I am sure we can get alot more "highly trained" pictures. Ryker77, with all due respect, your experience has no bearing whatsoever on what happened in the incident with Trooper Todeschini. two different officers, two different scenarios, and no correlation between the two incidents can be drawn. re: the vehicle that Trooper Todeschini was driving, i'll assume for a moment that your info on make and model is correct, but it begs several questions: --was the Chevrolet Tahoe that it appears Trooper Todeschini was driving specially equipped for LEO duty? more specifically, are the vehicles used by New York State Troopers equipped with a so-called "handling package?" --was Trooper Todeschini trained in high-performance driving? if either of these questions can be answered in the affirmative, then everyone on this thread who has cast negative opinions as to the high-speed capabilities of SUV's based on their own experiences, or the experiences of friends, or even on the reports from investigative television shows, is basing their opinion on flawed, or, rather, incomplete data. furthermore, we STILL don't know what caused the fatal crash. the knowledge that Trooper Todeschini was apparently driving an SUV doesn't automatically mean his vehicle caused the accident. nor do we know why Trooper Todeschini chose to pursue the motorcyclist. FB | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
interesting reading: www.pfmmag.com/NovDec04/Julyaugustmichstate.htm if, in fact, Trooper Todeschini was driving a Chevrolet Tahoe, one wonders if it was "police package" (pursuit-capable) or "special service package" (not intended for pursuit) equipped. |
